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I posted recently about going away for work, and being worried if AH would drink during my absence. So, the trip went well for me, but not surprisingly, he did what As do, and is back drinking. So today I tried to communicate my boundaries to him.
I told him I needed to know if he was taking this recovery seriously - I understand slips and relapses, but I can't stand the dishonesty. He lies right to my face. I told him I needed honesty and trust in this marriage. He basically just shut down, which is what he always does. I told him I love him, I understand he has a disease, I want to be here to be supportive, but I can't take the continued lying and dishonesty. Unlike in the past, this time I really did say what I wanted to say, in a loving way. I didn't yell, neither did he. (He never does, sometimes I wish he would just fight back). He quietly packed a plastic bag full of some stuff and left. I don't know where he is, what he is doing, or if he will come back.
We were supposed to go speak with the bank today to talk about loan consolidation, in the hopes of cleaning up HIS financial mess, but he left before we made it to the appointment. Honestly, I am so conflicted about helping him financially, that a big part of me is grateful that my HP stepped in.
I spoke with my sponsor, and by the end of it we were laughing. I will be fine, and I'm giving this up to God.
I have done that. I have tried to make his finances better. I know how heart-wrenching this situation is. I don't any more - and his finances are fine for him. He spends what he wants, pays with his earnings, has debt more than I would be comfortable with, but that's the good part. He makes his adult decisions. He has results (or consequences). I am so much more at ease than when my nose was all over his financial affairs. Actually, I think we both like this better. It is more dignified for us both. The distance I found - brought me more respect for him and I think more for me (from me). Thank you Al-Anon.
I tried having the discussion with my A about lying, etc. I think part of what I forgot was that lying and dishonesty is part of the package that comes with the disease of Alcoholism. So once again, I was browsing the aisles of the hardware store looking for that mysterious loaf of bread. It's been my experience that A's are compulsive in their dishonesty. Expecting them to change that because I've asked them to change can be breeding grounds for resentment for me.
My personal illness around lies is that it triggers a really bad response it me. I've likened it in the past to its being like a predator/prey relationship. It's like the lying A is a gazelle that suddenly bolted from me and I'm a cheetah and I just HAVE to take up chase. It's that strong in me to react to dishonesty in that way, and it's something I have to work on myself.
Give it to God, ask myself "How important is it?" in the sense of "Is brow-beating the A over his dishonesty worth disrupting my serenity?" and that sort of thing. I can tell you it was always a HUGE struggle with me, however. I'd get pretty self-righteous and tell myself stuff like "It's the principle of the thing!" to justify getting on his case if he lied.
Just know that the one who truly suffers the most from the deceit is the A him- or her-self.
Trying to keep an addict from lying you might as well try and hold the tide back. You aren't talking to him .. you are talking to the disease at least that has been my truth in dealing with my STBAX. They lie so much that they really think that they are telling the truth. I find rationalizing with an irrational person .. again .. try rationalizing with a 3 year old in the middle of a tantrum and how far do you really get???
The lying isn't a personal attack against me, I have had to learn to not take it personally (QTIP).
What I have learned is I'm not special .. he doesn't lie to just me .. he lies to his mother, to his brothers, to his father, to his s/mom, to the kids, to people at work .. he lies to everyone! My daughter made a comment about him lying to her one day and I hugged her and told her .. if he wasn't lying to her I'd have to put her in a museum because she WOULD be special. This is what A's do, it's not her, it's not me, it's not her brother .. this is him and his disease.
It's why I have to so clearly know my truth and my own personal boundaries .. an A is going to believe what your actions NOT your words .. as a codie .. I want to believe the words and not the actions. That is MY part to follow through and mean what I say .. say what I mean and not say it mean (I don't do that well all of the time .. ugh!). It's why I have to picture him as Jell-O and remember if I'm trying to nail him to a tree when he's lying I'm the one who looks crazy not him.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Thanks everyone, it is so good to have you all to share. I know the lying and dishonesty are part of the disease. I know it is unrealistic to expect honesty from him. But even though I know it intellectually, it is still so hard to watch him act the way he acts.
And now, he is texting me all 'Why do you hate me, is it because..woe is me...I am a loser...half a man...no good'. It is all so sad. But i am just tired of his game, this is what he does, tries to hook me back into his suffering.
I am grateful that Im able to see the merry go round ride for what it is. I am doing my best to not get on board.
The lying and dishonesty are indeed part of the disease. As an alcoholic who is serious about.recovery, I can tell you that the lying and dishonesty are not part of recovery. Hence, you asking if he is serious about recovery doesn't make sense to me. Of course he isn't or he wouldn't be lying or drinking. AA is hard work but not rocket science. We do what our sponsors and people with long term sobriety tell us and we get the results. Relapse is optional in AA. I have not drank since my first meeting. Constantly relapsing and lying sounds like a person not working AA at all...or barely. Not sure why you'd ask if he's serious. It's obvious he's not. AA does work if you work it...same as alanon. Sounds like you knew he was not serious about his recovery or you would not have even brought up the question. I do believe your AH may not be consciously trying to mess up, but he's not broke down enough and doesn't see he has to be sober to live so yeah...not taking it seriously yet. He wants to play victim longer and try to juice the enabling out of you. Just my take as someone in recovery. I admire your compassion for him in many ways but he can do this if he tries...You can't make him recover but believing that recovery from alcoholism involces constant relapse and lying is just not true.
Paris, It seems to me that he is acting like a child and you are his Mother. He is showing you how serious he is, he is not. My ex was in and out of AA for a while, today he seems to be sober and serious. He is working with a sponsor, attending meetings everyday, being honest with himself for the first time in his life. It is different as I dont live with him anymore but I do know that he had to lose everything before he was motivated to get sobriety and even then it took a couple of years of utter self pity. Honesty is only acheived through a bit of maturity. He is lying to you to cover up his behaviour like a child would and he is getting away with it. You are not his Mother and helping him like this is enabling him and I know how hard that is, I am also enabling my son. I am trying to break this though because enabling is an act of unkindness and selfishness on our part. My son is trying to protect the status quo just like your husband. Lying, scheming, manipulating, turning on the charm at just the right moment and both you and I fall for it. The reason I fall for it is because I am fearful for my son and myself so I act to relieve my own fearfulness and it is never what is best for him because that helps him stay in denial. I only got that realisation through reading the Alanon literature and attending meetings. Acceptance is one thing though but for me the hard part is always doing the right next thing. I get it right then wrong then right then wrong..... My son is homeless right now because I am trying to protect my boundary. This is good for him, not me so much, but I truly believe that this is our only chance for a better relationship and a better life. He is angry with me for this, confused that I am finally saying what i mean. He is still trying to manipulate me for money and I have fallen for it a couple of time but again my motives are selfish because its to alleviate my own guilt. I have heard people talk of looking at our motives and I never quite understood but I do now. Its about taking time to think about every step we take with our loved ones and checking that we are not acting on our own needs and desires. Paris, you may need to really let your husband fall, completely, dont bail him out with debt, set boundaries and consequences, scary ones are the only ones that will change things, and no matter what or how hard it is for you stick to your decisions. Change will need to happen then. Its a slow process and it could mean the end for you and your husband. It did for me but then again many people do stay. He stayed in his disease for around 6 years but in that time I found Alanon and I think I have set an example for him by being dedicated to my program and recovery. Its sad that our relationship ended but the alternative was a life of misery, obsession, enabling, resentment and denial. Denial for me means refusing to see the truth of the situation, constantly making excuses, living in confusion. It is a choice, you do not have to live like this, you can let go and believe it is the kindest thing to do. It might not be physical seperation but it is a mental one. You are not obliged to save him from his consequences, this is not love. You dont need to listen to his lies, you can detach with love. You can set boundaries that protect you from harm. Thank you for sharing.x
Dear PM: Nothing to add to all this End/S/H other than my support of you as you continue to work your program and visit with us at the board. Hugs and understanding.
Reading these posts, this is exactly my life. The continuous lies my husband tells directly to my face without a flinch, I am an enabler, I do act like his mother, another physical confrontation, etc. And this time he was not drinking. He was fine. He said I am a crazy psycho b--ch. With all the yelling and screaming lately, I am surprised no one has called the police. And I am tired. I simply cant do this anymore. What is an HP? When I leave the house just to get out, I sit in the parking lot of my church. I cant go in because I am embarrassed if anyone were to talk to me I would cry and crying is useless, so I sit in my car for awhile and then go back home. Home, the last place I want to be. Is HP higher power? Because at this point I need to believe in something. I feel abandoned. I feel like the life has finally been sucked out of me. Everyone is ruined. Everything is gone. Everything has gone in the opposite direction of what our life was. I am a strong person but this has me beat. I just want one, one person to validate what I am saying. And Paris, I strive to be like you.
I suggest you start another post so others will see your messaage and respond. Just copy this message and paste it into" Start new Topic "
In the meantime I want to assure you that you are not alone . I so understand the fear and pain of which you speak.
I postponed attending alanon because I thought I had to do it alone. One day I realized that I could not go on and walked into the rooms I did not speak for a long time but listened and found comfort in being connected to those who understood as few others can.
Alcoholism is a painful progressive disease . It can be treated but never cured. We who live with this disease become seriously affected and need our own program of recovery Alanon is that program .
We have face to face meeting in most communities Please check the white pages for the local inter group number and call. Alateen meetings are also available for children and are wonderful support
It is at meetings that I broke the isolation caused by this disease, regained my self esteem, my self respect and found the courage, and wisdom to make healthy choices for my life.
Please keep coming back here as well. You are worth it.
(((Hugs))) It is hard, DebLisa55. I understand completely. It is hard to let go and let God. I too am tired of the lies. I have a AH who is 14 days sober. I'm not sure how determined he is to do this this time around. I am tired of the lies, and the fear. But, I am reading daily in the Courage to Change. I am attending one f2f meeting once a week, as that is all I can manage with a 8 year old at home. And I come on here and get support. It helps. A LOT. People here have been through all that you and I have. And given time, it will help. Just keep coming back and it WILL help.
yeah, I realized too that even if they go to aa, the drinking behind your back, relapsing, usually is followed by lies. . and more lies. . it is just useless to even ask. At this point, I don't even care to know! My AHboyfriend started this AA journey in February, and has lied, drank when I am out of town, and been " off and on " and I never knew what phase he was in b/c of all the lying from feb until today. Now he is ON again with the drinking for sure, I know that! And the lying has damaged our relationship to the point where I thought he may be cheating on me, and I had so little trust that I refuse to even see him most of the time, and he has slept here 1 night in the last two months. We have our own places.
lying KILLS relationships, and A's never accept the damage the lying does! we are suppose to " suck it up" and get over it the very next day or week... I think the lying is truly the worst part of this.
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
What I have been seeing is if it happened 5 min ago, 5 days ago, 5 weeks ago, 5 months ago, 5 years ago .. (I think it's obvious where I'm going with this .. lol) it's in the past.
2 weeks ago STBX brought the kids home and there was a deputy in the driveway of my house. A healthy person's reaction and the deputy shared this with me .. wow .. glad you are here, sorry this caused any inconvenience, it won't happen again .. I'm really glad you are here. STBAX's reaction? (the crickets are chirping in the background as I type) .. not a word to me, to the deputy. The next Thursday comes and he texts my eldest and I laughed going REALLY? At this point I've gotten an emergency OP. After all Sunday is in the past and why would we need to talk about Sunday after all .. EVERYONE has a deputy in their driveway explaining they are here to keep the peace. Again .. healthy person's reaction .. call Monday afternoon .. hey don't know what happened I'm really sorry .. obviously things got out of control and lets at least try and talk about this so it doesn't happen again .. that was embarrassing and I don't want to have that happen again. STBAX's reaction? (cue the crickets) Deputy calls and shows up on his doorstep of his new apartment explaining NO contact. Your wife doesn't want to deal with you right now, you need to respect that. Well, what's that about because it's in the PAST why would we talk about THAT?!
He's still struggling and contacting me 3rd party through the kids .. again NOT ok. I really don't want to talk to him .. emergency is one thing .. this is NOT an emergency .. it's visitation which we have been doing for 18 months now it's a little more difficult because there is an emergency OP in place.
Having to talk about anything results in lies from the disease, the level of lying is directly related to the level of the denial/disease the person is dealing with .. little lies over everything .. it's beginning stages .. the lies get bigger as the stages are progressing worse and that's the denial.
Don't talk about it then it never happened, if someone does the best thing to do is lie. CRAZY is as crazy does!!!
I'm just grateful that I am removed enough now to see the lying and to see that it's not about me .. at the same time .. I no longer live in denial so I can talk about specific things .. it's his choice not to follow in the conversation and he can live in the "that's in the past mode". It's not about me being right .. it's about me saying that's not ok, I respect you don't want to talk about it .. you need to respect my boundaries about how I feel this is MY action to the situation of unacceptable behavior.
Sorry I digressed the point being .. it's in the past .. LOL .. why bring it up after all it's not that big of a deal! (cue dry wit) Here's the SERIOUSLY hysterical fact .. during December he threatened me that he was going to have this guy who I'm having an affair with (not!) brought up on ethical charges .. ROFLMAO .. ok .. this says the guy who is screwing a co-worker, stealing things from his JOB and the other guy is unethical!? WOW!! Well that came up again .. he's filed a complaint and I hope he has because if I get wind of it .. I will be bringing in the stuff the STBAX has stolen as well as the emails to the woman at the JOB were writing back and forth and the phone records of ALL of the company time spent on the phone together .. I won't let his delusions hurt another family. After all that's all IN THE PAST!!!
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
