The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
AH wants to talk. He is looking for validation that I see changes in him. While I do notice a few changes, they don't seem real to me and I've been having trouble discerning if it's just me because I don't trust him yet or if it's an internal signal that I should continue to proceed with caution. We got into a mini discussion tonight about a few things, mostly communication. I told him that I have been working on loving myself and putting God first. I mentioned that I am learning that God must come before everything and that I must learn to then love myself so that I can learn to love others. His response was, "Why do you have to worry about loving others here? This about our marriage, and what's between you and me?" OH boy, that got me irritated and put me on the defense. I can't even make a statement about love without having it twisted around on me. Anyway, we had to stop talking but we have most of tomorrow to continue and I promised I would speak with him. Please lift me up in your thoughts and prayers. I just get all tongue twisted with him and find us going down rabbit trails that are off topic and make him appear wiser or more 'with it' than me. It just really hacks away at my self esteem and I feel so emotionally drained. We only spoke for 15 minutes tonight and I'm just exhausted. Sigh....
My thoughts and prayers are with you...My x husband use to make me feel that way, it was manipulation but it was not always on purpose, it was a learned behavior and he a lot of times did it unconsciously. A touchy thing it was. He was not being kind to me when he behaved in that way. He did make an effort to change but it took a lot of awareness on his part. He was a dry alcoholic I never stood my ground and let him know I would not be treated like that and we broke up, but I wish I had because he was a good man. In support Oldergal
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
my exA is still so focused on himself...me..me...me...it's just what alcoholics do...it's part of the disease, I think...to be so self-focused.
Doesn't mean we have to like it. I am still working on resentment with my ex A...here I am going crazy trying to support our family (he does squat to support the family, hasn't worked in 3 years). When I try to communicate with him about what his kids need...he always steers the conversation back to HIS health, HIS inability to pay for his meds, HIS lack of gas money...it is maddening. I do find myself frustrated and angry...though less than in the past. he is a sick man..and this is part of the symptomatology. I'm working on it...I still cannot detach with compassion...the hurt and damage is just too deep for me. I can detach with indifference...
hang in there...your A is new to sobriety, right? he still has a long way to go....
I will definitely keep good thoughts for you today. He's trying to force an outcome. I try to remember to invite my hp into difficult situations but sometimes someone can really push our buttons when they aren't hearing what they want to hear and I need to BEWARE. I always want to kick myself later for reacting. I ask myself why I allowed myself to get sucked in. sigh... I don't think there's anything wrong with validating someone but that's something to be given freely when where and how we want to present it to that other person. Someone trying to extract praise from us is control. Also ... a changed behavior doesn't necessary mean a changed person for the better. Recovery takes time and experience putting new behaviors into practice until they become a new "healthy" habit. It's tough to watch someone who is so hyperconscious of themself once we're comfortable in our our recovery and in our own skin. But for me ... having compassion doesn't include giving my dignity away by allowing someone to belittle or mistreat me when I choose myself instead of them. I don't have to instantly give someone what they want when they stomp their foot, create drama, tantrum or demand it. If things start heating up with the other person, the best tool I've learned is to take a deep breath....... In that moment, I refocus, make conscious contact with my hp and continue rationally. Now I'm grounded and hp is with me and I'm not so easily intimidated by others behaviors nor am I as easily prone to reacting in a way I'll regret and have to make amends for tomorrow.
You'll give what feels right for you and end will end the conversation when that feels right for you too (detachment). I try to be honest and just say I feel on overload emotionally with this conversation (for now) and that I feel the conversation is important and would prefer to have it another time. If they refuse, I choose myself and respectfully end the conversation and walk away.
It's my right to stop dancing and leave the floor when I want. Good luck! Keep us posted. Hugs TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
You are a wise, valuable. intelligent,compassionate, loving, cleaver, funny women. You have the capacity to love and partner with others.. I suggest that you review your assets,before your "talk" .
Alanon tools also suggest that we remain honest and open and willing. Change is difficult and takes time, It is all a process. So right now, being honest might mean to indicate that you certainly do see some positive changes in his behavior and in your attitudes as well . List the positive changes that you see in him and yourself. Validate your concerns about the permanence of the change. Be honest about how hard you are working to grow and be able to live life on life's terms.
I am sure his main reason for the talk is to see where you are as far as sleeping with him This is a topic you will need to look within, find how you truly feel and simply say what you mean , mean what you say and do not say it mean.
This is not easy say the serenity prayer ,before the "talk" when you get flustered take a deep breath and say let go and let God before you respond .
I think Betty hit the nail on the head. He did put pressure on me to come up with a time frame, and kept using the 6 month statement I made in therapy. I finally changed it to: let's just take this one day at a time and I explained that I just threw that number of months out there to explain that I needed to see long term change. Anyway, my stomach is already in knots and I feel sick. I hate talking to him, he is so good at twisting things around and going down rabbit trails off topic and it confuses me and then I forget what I was originally saying, etc. Leaning hard on HP today.
Your in my thoughts today. Just remember you can walk away anytime you feel your not in control of your feelings. Equal footing for both and he needs to know this.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I do hear you. Just remember to "Listen to him" as you would at a meeting, pause, process the information and then say The non judgmental response such as:m "I see, I will think about it, I am not sure. I will consider, etc
Terms like emotional blackmail come to mind....two people involved ..statements like "if you don't do blank by blank time you are the cause of...they fill in the blank." It happens when others hold another person hostage. Word games, mind games I found were all ways to weaken my clear thought processes. Weaken and disable my common sense ability and I found myself generally giving up just to end the conversation and agreeing with whatever nonsense was being spewed.
Your instincts are right on when you say you need time to rebuild trust.
Your instincts are correct when you realize you are feeling pushed into something you aren't ready for yet.
Know that no matter how sane or sober an alcoholic / drug addict sounds it literally takes a year...for their mind to begin functioning healthy and sober.
Talk with your sponsor to uncover what is motivating you to remain on this cylce if you haven't found one yet feel free to seek out someone who has what you want and ask if they would sponsor you. By doing the steps we are able to uncover so much. By attending meetings we regain our balance.
-- Edited by Peggy7 on Friday 19th of April 2013 03:14:42 PM
Well, here's an update. He sounded sober, and I mean literally sober in thinking and alcohol free as well. He worked hard to keep his voice low, he was aware of when he changed subjects and corrected himself, he truly did sound like he meant what he said. I made the suggestion that we start going to lunch once a week to get to know each other again. He said he is finally 'aware' of the damage he's done and he wants our marriage to work no matter what that takes and he knows my heart is hardened. I told him that the softening of my heart will be on God's time and I can't force it or ask God to pick up my recovery process.
All in all, it was a good talk. We'll see how things go in the future but I've decided to recommit to the marriage for a few months and see how things go. He is not really working any recovery program so I only have his words and what I see to rely on here.
You will know when you know kind of deal whatever your decision is, sending love and prayers.
I'm truly so very glad we share this journey.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I just want to say that this entire thread helped me so much tonight. I deeply identify with the conversation being tangled up by the A. Every time my AB and I have a problem unrelated or related to addiction, it doesn't matter. He still drags the topic in 50 different directions.. down rabbit trails.. and we eventually end up in a rabbit "hole." Hating and frustrated and yelling. Usually just him. Sometimes both.
Lately, we do not fight about alcohol anymore. I try to *talk* calmly about better communication, and how we can both do better. But I realized after today and reading this thread that maybe I am expecting to fix this issue that is not fixable right now because it is also due to his alcoholism. Maybe his disease is the reason he is such a poor communicator, prone to bursts of attitude and anger, and always feeling like attacking. Even though he doesn't drink anymore. The way he discusses is to point fingers at me about something else, blows up every other sentence then calms down, overreacts, or cant handle any talk of anything and acts like I am "draining" his energy. Rolling his eyes, telling me to stop talking, to give him a break. Even if we agree to discuss something, he ends up being extremely sarcastic and will sometimes do impressions of me if he gets extremely frustrated. He is very mouthy, and I remain calm and try to push through the talk hoping something will come out of it, only to end it in disgust, resentful secretly, and hurting that we made zero progress and he just treated me horribly and dragged me all over the place. wrapped me up and confused me and made me exhausted trying to be nice. what a mess. :( I thought alcoholism was drinking, and depression, and other things. Not these tactics in communicating??
After reading this thread, I feel like I am wasting my time trying to talk to him about his communication and what he can do to improve it for our sake. We were going to discuss each of our contributions tomorrow, but I always fear it b/c it ends with me being the 'attacker' and him the victim, in a weird way after he has verbally battered and bruised me and the kindness in the conversation.
I shouldn't waste my time with this conversation right..? it seems pointless. i have had it 1 million times before and he still is just as sarcastic and short tempered as he was a year ago, if not more b/c he is trying to stay sober now.
any help is appreciated as I am up late riddled with anxiety over this. :( Need to get a handle on understanding what I am giong through!
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
I would like to add one more thing to this post, like "ilovedogs" said- it seemed he cleared up his behavior after her lack of presence in his life. I have also noticed that the only times I saw him try to assert control over his childish or mouthy behavior was when I was almost void from his life and that talk was the one opportunity he got to spend time with me. He really has to try to control it and that makes me sad. The second I am happy and love him, and we spend time together- and there is an issue- he is "too comfortable" and just cannot be respectful and stay calm, on topic, or open minded to meeting me half way and discussing what went wrong. HELP.
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
