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Sorry to hear you are going through such a hard time with your AH and not being able to simply grieve and remember your mom on this day. Living with a active alcoholic is never easy, and can be the most painful, disappointing and frustrating experience a loved one can endure. You sound like you are on the right track. Trying to keep your program in place, but that does not mean allowing yourself to be a door mat to the disease of alcoholism that is inflicted on those the alcoholic loves and are loved by.
Just Keep your cool, and don't do anything too hasty, but be taking steps so that when the time comes you are ready to take care of yourself and your son. You are so right in that a child that age is "mercifully" unaware of the strife. And no, you do not need, nor would it do you any good to try to explain why you are upset. Just don't allow yourself to sink in it either. You know what you will and won't accept, and you do not have to be upset about honoring your own boundaries. Keep in mind that they are yours. And expecting an abnormal person (alcoholic) to honor them for you will not get you very far. They are yours, you honor them. There is a lot less disappointment and frustration when we stop expecting more than others can deliver, and start accepting that we are empowered to honor our own boundaries with pride and self respect.
For those of you who don't know my story, in a nutshell, I work a regular 8-5 job, and my AH works second shift (3-11). He does the very large majority of his drinking at home after work, when I am asleep and it doesn't interfere directly with family time. My AH has had periods where he is very emotionally abusive towards me.
We had a terrible fight last night, and barely spoke this morning when I left for work. His factory was closed today for Good Friday, and I had a half day. I arrived home at 11:30, and his truck was gone. I called him and he was pleasant and chipper, saying he was with two of his friends and they were at the shooting range (something he has talked of doing for weeks). We kept in periodic touch over the next few hours, and at 2:00 we talked and he said they were just getting in the truck, and it would take him about an hour and 20 minutes to get home.
Today is the anniversary of my mother's death. He knows this. We had agreed to go out for dinner with our son. It was absolutely crystal clear that he was on his way home, and we would go out for dinner.
By 4:30, he was an hour late and I hadn't heard a peep from him. I started calling and texting. Even in our worst moments, he always answers his phone or calls back within a few minutes. At 6:15 he called me, completely and utterly wasted, and thinking the whole thing was pretty amusing. I got very angry on the phone with him, and finally just refused to talk to him. He arrived home around 7:15, still wasted of course, and started in with the whole "you're an evil person, you've ruined my life, you've ruined our son's life" bit that he turns to sometimes. He made it very clear that he does not believe he did anything wrong, that I am the problem, blah blah blah. I ignored it, and continued to play wiht our son (who is 2, and mercifully unaware of what was going on). We put our son to bed at 8:30, and I retreated to the extra bedroom to read kind messages about my mom from friends and family, and get away from the insanity.
He has crossed a line. This behavior is so completely and totally unacceptable to me, and I do not accept it. In the past, it has been easier for me to detach from this stuff, because most of it happens when I'm asleep. This time is different. Something has broken irretrievably, and I'm not sure how to act tomorrow. I have no desire to "fake it til I make it" tomorrow. I will be cordial to him, because I generally am. But I am not willing to pretend that our marriage is fine tomorrow. I'm also not willing to demand a divorce tomorrow. After all of this, on a day when all i wanted to do was grieve my mom, everything blew up. I know divorce is unavoidable now. There is no way this can ever be repaired. Ever. I just want time to work out my plan, without having to act like everything is peachy keen. I don't feel like I owe him any explanation, and frankly he is so far gone in his disease that it wouldn't accomplish anything anyway. I don't feel like I have to tell him, again, why I am upset, why I feel betrayed. I feel like it's all just wasted breath, and I'd appreciate any ESH you have about maintaining a minimal amount of peace while planning my exit. What is the right balance?
(((stephaniej))) I'm sorry to hear that you are suffering. You seem to know already your 'exit'. I cannot give you a real ESH share because i have been in a different situation. We have no children, and the A got mainly drunk when we were together at night, so I got it ALL...the wining, the sleepless nights, the self-pity, the accusation and mean words....so for me all this evidence made my way out quicker, very intense but maybe easier in the end. I basically found out that it was ME who stood in the way of my recovery, that I let myself abuse. Once i discovered that, it was pretty necessary to step out of it, since I'm pretty much incapable of lying to myself. When I was still in the relationship, and learned due to Al Anon to detach and NOT react, things became easier for me. I got told 'selfish' all of a sudden by the A, but that, i learned to take as a compliment for my change. I started to take care of ME, and not engage in his frustration....and from there the relationship degraded. He became sober, or tried to stay sober, with a relapse here and there and many lies in between which I still don't know the truth. it doesn't matter, I discovered what I wanted for my life, and we both needed to work on our own recovery, so it became clear that our ways would separate somewhere along. he has become a dry drunk, and i was tired of keeping all my sick expectations high up. I took more time for myself, gave more to positive people around me, traveled where I wanted to travel, did what i like doing (hiking, reading, yoga...)...the A got so pissed off by my 'selfish attitude', not taking care of him anymore, that he got tired calling for my attention, and i got tired to hold his head over water. He presented me more lies, and sabotaged the whole thing. ...only to drown n self-pity again. I guess he is not doing so fine as he hoped to feel today. I wouldn't know, because he is not humble, nor honest. What I know is that I am much better today, with a lot of more peace and serenity and courage on my hands. I rescued myself for once, in a pure act of kindness and compassion towards myself. That was pretty new, and it feels very loving indeed. I let myself guide by time and some events are put along the way that show me clearly where to go and where not to go. follow the signs...is all I can say. and when I was in the stage where you seem to be now, I practices, detachment....and tried to add 'loving' in the process...which is easier said than done, until I found out that the 'loving' also makes my own life easier, rather than feelings of anger and hate. but those come up also now and then, and I allow them, but i also let them go. be patient and loving with yourself, you are doing well. in support
Unlike you and Tortuga, my AH is like that when he's sober. Steph, focus on the next right thing. You know you're dealing with an irrational drunk so your expectations need to reflect that. As you said, you don't have to accept unacceptable behavior but if you stay (as I am) then you are choosing to do so. When I start feeling like this, I remind myself that he is who he is and if I expect him to be something else, then I am setting myself up for disappointment and resentment. I have to step back and turn it over to my HP and ask him that I be in his will. I remind myself that I have choices too, and then I have to review my options and decided which path I want to take.
This obviously was quite distressing to you and may warrant a conversation with your Ah. I just know that if I brought this up with my AH, it would be turned into my being the bad guy and I'd be starting WW3. So, I truly have no advice to give about how to talk to him if you choose to do so. I'm definitely not the expert, lol. I hope others come on with wiser words than mine. So sorry about your grieving the loss of your mom. I know how hard it is. Hugs to you!
The pain and fallout from these situations is terrible. This may be one of those times where "the only way out is through." But in times like this we need to get every bit of self-care we can. Meetings, being with friends, small treats like massages or afternoons with a nice latte, everything to keep life from being all about the painful situation. Because these situations are so painful that they can start taking over every part of our life unless we're very vigilant.
In my experience there are two booby-traps that this kind of situation can produce. One is the craving to explain the pain to the A and make him acknowledge it and understand. Of course if they were capable of acknowledging it, the whole situation wouldn't have developed in the first place. And every discussion turns into an argument where we get blamed (because the disease defends itself to the last). But even when I knew a real conversation wouldn't have the effect I wanted, I'd replay the conversation in my head over and over. As if, if only I could get the words right, I'd open the magic door and he'd understand and I'd feel so much better. But that way madness lies.
The second booby-trap was when I started second-guessing myself or dreading the future. "Maybe it isn't so bad ... maybe I've been too hasty ... it will be hard out there on my own ... they're all defective in some way anyway ... maybe if I just explain, he'll understand and we can start again ... I don't know how I'd handle life on my own ... without him couldn't do X or Y ... we had so many good times ... I'll miss the way he does this or that ..." And my resolutions would crumble. Finally I wrote down everything he had done that was painful or insane. What a list! It was huge. I'd look at it when I started to discount all the bad stuff. I'd think, "Are you insane? You'd stay with a man who treats you like this??" But before I did that, I went back on my resolutions uncountable times. I didn't have the tools to keep going through the pain. Finally I thought, "If I'd left when I first knew I should, I would have been long healed by now!" And when I finally made the break, to my immense surprise, I felt great. Not that life was totally problem-free or that it didn't hurt like crazy when I thought about what I'd been through. But all my fears about loneliness and misery were totally misguided. F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real!
Anyway that's my experience of needing to make the break, and the problems I encountered. Meanwhile take very good care of yourself and get all the support you can!
I dunno Stephanie... finding a "balance while planning one's exit" sounds like a whole lot of mixed signals and emotions for one person to follow...
Today's event - sounds to me like a "day in the life" of living around active alcoholism - you having expectations of something, and your A being oblivious to those expectations.... My sponsor used to talk me down off my (anger) ledge, telling me "Tom, it sounds to me like your A is doing what A's do - they are drinking and being selfish"....
Then he would tick me off further, by telling me some of his gems - to look at my A with the large SSS stamped on her forehead that stood for "Sick, Sick, Sick", and/or he would ask me "why do I keep thinking a sick and irrational person is going to behave in healthy and rational ways?"
I know those are just words, and your feelings were hurt today - but I would humbly ask "what did you expect?" He is an A, and he acted like an A....Not excusing his choices or behavior - at all - just stating the facts as I see 'em.
Ultimately, you will find that 'balance' of what you need to do to keep the peace, and/or how much you can take, before you truly can't take it anymore....
Take care of you my friend.....
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
My ex-A stepped over the line too and it was irreparably busted like you mention. It was not the drinking persay but it was the twisting around of facts and badmouthing me and my family. It was me supporting him for years only to get my mom called a bitch and him turning around the fact that he convinced me to buy a condo in my name that was going into forclosure and then blamed my parents saying it was them that wanted it cuz they wanted a Florida home. In reality, they helped with the down payment thinking it would be our house and they helped my sisters to buy their 1st houses too. My ex was a realtor (or trying to be and went along with this but really only had thoughts of making his first sale and flipping properties). Unfortunately the market crashed and instead of sucking it up and admitting the reality. I got blamed and my innocent parents did too. Yeah...I let him convince me to do that but still. That was the real kicker and the unforgiveable act cuz he drove me to bankruptcy almost, made me look horrible to my family, then tried to turn it all around on me and my family also. This is when arguments turned into screaming matches and all love was gone. There is more to the story and I've told it in other posts but that's the gist.
I identify with your post cuz it sounds like you are at the same point with a self-centered and emotionally abusive alcoholic partner. I know from marital therapy class and such that relationships can survive and heal from a lot but once "Contempt" enters the picture...it's pretty much doomed. It went there and it ended just like I studied in school.
For me, I realized the relationship was making me unhealthy and I was making bad decisions. I didn't plan an exit cuz I felt I had to leave right then or I might friggin kill him or me....something was gonna bust. Our last really bad fight did involve him waving a bottle in my face saying how much he loved alcohol (when he knew I had about a week sober and was going to AA) and him waving a hammer at me and also throwing a bag of clothes at me in my face so hard it snapped my neck back. Bad was getting worse. So I took 2 grocery bags of clothes and went to a friend's house for 1 month while reaching out, going to tons of meetings, and getting help in getting started on my own. I didn't sit around and plan cuz it was one of those moments/times where I had to act and I just went into auto pilot....functioned somehow in getting to work and all that...stayed sober...it got better and better and I keep reaching out for help the whole time.
A similar thing happened to me. I had endured abuse from my A for years. Also taken care of finances when he went on spending sprees, etc..I put up with it for 28 years...but in the last 3 of our marriage I was really on the fence "should I stay?" "Should I go?"
Then one day, when I was about to leave on a business trip, I came home and he was passed out -- this after insisting that he was not drinking or using again. I had planned to leave him with the kids while I was away. So, given he was using, I arranged for someone else to watch the kids while I was away. He went to detox, and on the second day of the business trip, with him in an inpatient facility, safe to hear the news, I told him he could not come home.
Something happened that day. I don't know what made it different than all the other times. I really can't explain it. I just, all of a sudden, had complete clarity with what I had to do....and I did it.
For me, my intuition had told me for years that it would be best to leave, but I refused to listen to my inner voice. When my inner voice started to shout that day, I couldn't ignore it any more.
I am sorry to hear that you've been through this at a time when you would have liked some loving support and stability.
I had a very similar situation a year after my own mother died and I wish that I could have shown the clarity and self awareness that you show in your last paragraph. Well done.
I doubt if I will ever understand why he did it and I'm not sure that he will either. The main damage that I did to myself at the time was to ignore my feelings of hurt. I had no idea of the damage that I was doing to my own feelings of self worth by trying to put up with such an intolerable situation. With hindsight I wish that I had been more protective of myself.
It took me another two years before I realised the results of my self deception. I was angry all of the time and I was well on the way to becoming a bitter and twisted old maid! I thought that I had been saving our marriage, but instead I was killing our relationship with a thousand tiny cuts.
When I finally drew a line positive changes started to happen. It was the first time in years that AH showed me any respect. And it helped him to realise that he needed to respect himself a bit as well! It was the first time in years that I reflected back to him honestly. And I think that honesty is more important than just reflecting positively. That was a big learning curve for me.
I have learnt that I do not need to say much, if anything, to AH. I do like myself better when I behave fairly though. For example, if I need space I say so rather than just stomping off in a huff without any explanation. AH is still likely to react by throwing a tantrum or 'punishing' me by getting plastered, but at least I have behaved like someone that I might like! I don't think that it helps either of us if I try to justify my actions.
It sounds as if you have wonderful dignity and self respect Stephanie and these gifts are worth preserving.
I remember that time of irrepairable damage. But remember that when you are ready to leave you will know. Until then keep on going one day at a time. Plan, prepare, detach and live your own life. Okay, he's going to drink. What are YOU going to do?
been there too many times to count .. the disease is Selfish . it takes, never gives and yet we expect a different result Every time .. for him, alcohol is the solution .. it gives him a chance to escape his own thinking .. for us of course the solution is quit, keep your promises, etc.. but it's an unrealistic expectations .. alcoholism is a thinking disease, not just a drinking one .. the thinking comes first so with or without the drink, the thinking is already distorted to begin with .. everytime they have a sober moment .. or .. (nice moment) .. we want to believe they are changed forever .. we reset our own selves up for failure everytime ..
to trust them with something so special and important to us may not be in our wisest thinking .. sometimes we need plan B .. i'm so sorry you are going through this .. i spent so much time on another post, i am running out of time .. it's never easy .. i hope you go to alanon !! ..
I like some of these posts .. would like to also add when our feelings our hurt, they are hurt not as in boohoo .. but hurt as in damaged, harmed .. we feel it .. it does harm us .. very very important to find something for us .. but i would like to add also humbly speaking .. i love what did you expect he's an alcoholic .. but in my esh only and speaking only through experience .. even if i knew my a was an addict, it took some time before i truly knew what that all meant .. the behaviors, etc .. or the disease .. it also for me meant i had choices i wasn't ready for .. i couldn't walk away from my a anymore than he could quit using .. i felt like i'd known the behavior my whole life .. turns out i did .. many spiritual reasons why i was powerless .. finally after working the steps, hp did for me what i couldn't do for myself .. i needed a 12 step program as bad as the a needed one for his addictions .. anyway this is my experience .. i love the other though too because it's our own expectations that trip us up more than anything .. no cure for the disease .. only treatment .. in our case, 12 step alanon recovery .. rebuilding our lives on a foundation of spirit, strength, truth, as opposed to a disease filled with lies, harm, hurt ..
Ladies. I stay too with an active ah, and its hard, maddening,sad, lonely ,frustrating and full of pain. . . Oh so full of pain. As i read about u wishing to just have the space and support to grief your mom, i thought, this coukd be my story someday. His alco is progressing, his compassion for anyone is lessening, and his ability to tear me apart is huge.that said, i still stay. I dont have to, its a choice. We have a daughter and for right now i stay. . . One day at a time because i want to be with her EVERYDAY. Someone posted, 'hes in A, what did u expect', i kniw thats a hard reality to face. But it is true. Sad, but true. Does it derail me some days. . . You bet, thats why we need each other, thats why we need to know we arent as alone as we sometimes feel. Ive come to believe, God has a special.place for US, those that live and keep living healthy and meaningful lives despite the chaos and insanity. I pray forHis grace and power everday. For us all.
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When all else fails...there is Faith, Hope and Prayer.
For me making any decisions in the "heat of the moment" I'm a person who operates from feelings and emotions isn't always the best thing for me. I would encourage you to do the foot work of what are the legal things you need to have in place before filing OR even having a discussion about divorce. If he's already hot headed as you have expressed in the past confronting him on any level is going to be rough. The other thing I want to point out is he's probably not going to remember any of this happened and completely behave as if nothing has happened, I'm going to be honest .. I don't know if that's a good conversation to have anyway. Sometimes I know it can be .. however that being said again .. you know your situation best. As an example, my STBAX is suffering badly from short term memory loss .. I do mean that in terms of between the night before and even that morning that I had a dr appointment and needed him to take the kids during that time. He's off work at the moment AND it was his visitation day. Well he played games with me told me that he couldn't pick the kids up until two hours later and I told him I'd be dropping the kids off with his mother if that was the case (he lives with her). That was all the night before .. LOL .. that morning he swore to the kids he had NO idea why I dropped them off and that he was coming to pick them up .. of course after I dropped them off. Then showed up at the same store I was at getting my eyes checked and was stunned I was there .. the kids told him, I told him .. trust me the eye thing has been an ongoing thing for the past week .. LOL .. gotta love contacts. Anyway, honestly .. I don't believe he remembers from one moment to the next what he has said and what he hasn't .. it's very entertaining to watch him in action. It's that .. WOW .. this is not a good thing kind of deal. It's always a good reminder for me to keep the focus on me and not get caught in his tornado.
Give yourself some time and space to figure out exactly what you want .. talk to a couple of atty's, do some footwork so you know what you need to do and THEN talk to him OR just let him be served. Take that time to take a breath, I do much better when I am centered making big decisions vs again .. this is me .. I'm operating from my feelings and emotions especially hurt and anger.
You need this day to be sad about your mom and that's ok. Let it be about that and don't let this diversion keep you from dealing with the pain and hurt of missing your mom.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I like some of these posts .. would like to also add when our feelings our hurt, they are hurt not as in boohoo .. but hurt as in damaged, harmed .. we feel it .. it does harm us .. very very important to find something for us .. but i would like to add also humbly speaking .. i love what did you expect he's an alcoholic .. but in my esh only and speaking only through experience .. even if i knew my a was an addict, it took some time before i truly knew what that all meant .. the behaviors, etc .. or the disease .. it also for me meant i had choices i wasn't ready for .. i couldn't walk away from my a anymore than he could quit using .. i felt like i'd known the behavior my whole life .. turns out i did .. many spiritual reasons why i was powerless .. finally after working the steps, hp did for me what i couldn't do for myself .. i needed a 12 step program as bad as the a needed one for his addictions .. anyway this is my experience .. i love the other though too because it's our own expectations that trip us up more than anything .. no cure for the disease .. only treatment .. in our case, 12 step alanon recovery .. rebuilding our lives on a foundation of spirit, strength, truth, as opposed to a disease filled with lies, harm, hurt ..
I really like how you've expressed this MeTwo2
I get on at myself for getting involved with my active alcoholic when I knew from the moment I met him that he had a problem with alcohol and that I had a problem with that ( at me!)
It has taken me quite some time to realise the nature of addiction and everything that goes with it
a few years ago I gave him an ultimatum and he choose to stop drinking at that point and I think I naively thought that that was it - that he wouldn't drink again
when he drank again I felt in turbulence and that's when I turned to al anon properly.
He drinks, recovers, relapses in a cycle and that really wears on me. Yesterday he expressed how uncertain he feels that if he drinks I'll leave him and I was able to say that I feel the same uncertaintly that he will never be able to say that he can't pick up a drink again
it was sad and comforting at the same time to feel we're both living with uncertainty
Say what you mean, mean what you say but never say it mean. It helped me so much not being disappointed so much. He is going to drink or he's not....I'm taking care of me.
((( hugs ))) you are not alone
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Thanks very much, everyone, for the ESH. Pushka, you are so right, and I am very grateful to Al Anon for being part of my journey of self-discovery so that I know enough about myself to know NOT to act in the heat of the moment. I definitely need time to calm down, reflect, and sometimes seek the input from one or two trusted people. I am self-aware enough to know that even 3 days later, I am STILL so worked up about this I can't really think objectively about the situation as a whole. Fortunately, there are some employment issues on my AH's end that could necessitate him having to work out of town again (he spent most of our son's first year out of state) in as early as a month. That makes it easier for me to just "put a pin in it" and not worry too much about making long-term decisions right this very second.
Lord help me, though, my own sickness is rearing its ugly head. A big part of me is just so offended, so hurt, that this person who is so consumed by alcohol and so insane because of it is totally unwilling and unable to apologize for his behavior and how deeply he hurt me. Part of me knows I am only hurting myself by being upset about that, but part of me just can't help it. I am a GOOD person. I deserve compassion and kindness, and it infuriates me that this stupid disease has rendered my once-wonderful husband incapable of providing it. I'm trying to keep that anger directed at the disease.
Again why I am grateful this is a program of progress not perfection I'd be beaten before I got up everyday if the case were reversed.
Someone mentioned the book Opening our hearts and Transforming our losses, it's one of those books that has been collecting dust on my shelf and I needed to get it out. It is a book about grief not just someone dying from the disease our grief in terms of our dreams or perceptions of dreams that were never really there to begin with .. I really recommend it as a read. I'm not through it, however it did really peel back some layers I hadn't even really considered until recently.
The other thing is the bookmark Just for Today .. I mentioned in a different post this is something that is read at the open AA meetings I attend. I have come to really rely on that bookmark and it's something that is a good reminder to me that I only need to focus on this 24 hours I don't have to do more or less and if I get out of my own way I can do far more for my recovery.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
The idea of trying to stay focused on the anger at the disease not the person is soooo hard. i too agree and feelb that i too am a good person and dont deserve this. That said, its my reality. My weekend was one that will be etched in my brain for awhile and its so hard to let go of being angry at the person, not just the disease. I find it hard to seperate the two when the disease lives in our home and is the father to my child. So hard.
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When all else fails...there is Faith, Hope and Prayer.
at me!)