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I have 2 children, a daughter, almost 11 and a son, almost 8. I was with their father for 13 years and we split 4 and a 1/2 years ago. When we first got together we both drank but he had the ability to keep going until he couldn't speak whereas I would stop when I felt drunk. His group of friends all drank a lot but they are and were all functioning, have jobs, degrees, children.
When our children came along I reduced my drinking but his continued. I still drank more than felt healthy. We would open a bottle of wine each evening, have half each but then he would open a second and drink most of that. He would always leave some in the bottom so that he could say he hadn't drunk the whole bottle. I started to feel that drinking was affecting my mood and ability to parent and we both cut back but his crept back up again. Eventually we split up.
A few months after we split he got together with a woman who was the heaviest drinker out of his circle of friends. She also works at my children's school. My children tell me she drinks wine every evening but that their dad doesn't drink wine every night, just beer. My ex and his girlfriend bought a house 3 months ago- we share custody 50/50 although this has never been formally agreed through the courts. I believe that the chidren need him in their life as much as they need me but I am starting to have concerns that their drinking is so normalised that I'm missing the negative effect it's having on the kids. Last night my daughter asked me if her father is an alcoholic and I didn't know what to say.
These are the reasons I think he may be:
I've never known him not drink;
He chose a new partner who is a heavy drinker;
My children made a big deal of him ordering water at a recent dinner out and then going home and telling his partner about it;
He looks awful- puffy face, weight gain and not looking after himself.
Before we split he drank all the time but was always in denial of it being a problem;
I once went to his work and found him with a bottle of wine. He said I was being uptight and it was no big deal;
About 6 months ago my daughter rang me from her grandparents house where they were staying with her father and girlfriend. It was 11pm at night. She was crying and asked me to come and get her. She told me she felt unsafe and she had locked herself and her brother in the bathroom to make the call. I asked why she felt unsafe and where her dad was, she said she didn't know why and that her dad was downstairs. I said she just needed to go and tell him she couldn't sleep and everything would be fine. She said she couldn't and please could I come and get her (6 hour drive from where I am). At that point her dad got her to open the door. I could hear him shouting at her. I heard him say I better come and pick her up because he didn't want her to come on the trip that was planned and he would just take her brother. Then my daughter's phone went dead. 10 minutes later my ex rang me and was utterly abusive down the phone until I was in tears. I said i didn't understand what had happened but I would come and get the children if I needed to. He said I made things up and I always had done. He swore a lot.
My children told me later they heard him talking doen the phone to me and that later he had apologised. He also apologised to me the next day. All I can think is that he must have been drunk. During our relationhip there were the odd occasion when he acted weirdly when drunk (kicked over our Xmas tree/ was aggressive to a dog).
So last night I said I did think he has a problem with his drinking. We focussed more on his girlfriend's drinking than his. My daughter was saying things like she will stop him drinking and it will all be OK; if he wasn't with his girlfriend he wouldn't drink. Both children at times express very negative feelings about themselves- they are expressing feelings of feeling 'lonely' when at their dad's house.
I don't know what to do. I am aware that I have codependent traits and am working on these issues for myself. I don't want to be negative about their father or his girlfriend but I don't want to invalidate their feelings. Last night I showed my daugher the al ateen questions because she was so distraught and so full of self loathing and desperately looking for answers as to why she feels the way she does. They both keep saying they don't want to go to their father's house but at the same time they want to see him and are terrified of upsetting his feelings.
Anybody any ideas?
-- Edited by Maria1 on Friday 15th of March 2013 12:41:23 PM
-- Edited by Maria1 on Friday 15th of March 2013 12:43:10 PM
Thank you- I'm struggling with labelling him as an alcoholic. Do I have a right to do that which is what taking my children to al- ateen would be? he is so high functioning it's difficult to call it- yes he has drunk to excess in the past but I'm not sure he drinks more than many other couples who live together. I know about 12 steps, detaching with love and boundaries work and that this is the process to begin with my children- it just feels like I will be changing their lives forever by calling their dad an alcoholic and I'm worried that I'm over reacting. Does that make sense?
-- Edited by Maria1 on Friday 15th of March 2013 06:54:15 PM
Hugs and welcome, I would suggest an alateen and Alannon meeting for yourself and the kids. I struggle with finding alateen in the area. My daughter has been seeing an addictions counselor on and off too help her. She is 13, my son is 8. We do talk Alannon program in our home especially when visitation has made them feel unsafe. Now this is my situation the divorce is not final. Honestly, if my kids are calling and the stbax is behaving as you described there would be a plan b in place. I'm across town picking them up immediately is not an issue. I empathise with the drive. As soon as dad is drinking or we don't feel safe, visitation is over. Thankfully there hasn't been dad is drinking recently, my daughter did see him drink over the summer and he is unaware my son saw him as well as early as Oct. They did not call me, we did talk about it later. There has been we don't feel safe. I am sole physical custodial parent. I was able to work visitation until he was in a better place. I'm not sure he got what was really going on, it has worked out. My situation has always been about their safety and making sure they do get time with their dad. Their safety comes first. They can only speak for themselves and I can protect them to the best of my ability. The relationship they have with their dad is between the three of them. As an observation only, I would encourage you to look at your legal options while they need a relationship with their dad. Abuse is not ok. Abuse towards you, towards them, not ok. I understand how difficult it is, teaching our children how to cope with a very difficult situation gives them life long tools. In that respect I'm grateful for this experience, they have a far better idea how deal. Hugs p :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Hi Pushka and thanks for your reply- your situation sounds tough
The thing is that time when my daughter rang me was an extreme- there are a few smaller incidents but they are few and far between eg. he swore at my son last week when he was dawdling getting ready for school.
My daugher raised the incident when she rang me from the bathroom when we were talking last night. She said she won't ring me again because she was scared of how her dad responded. What worries me is that it's all OK as long as everybody behaves. But I also worry I am over reacting because most of the time their dad is trying his best to be a good dad.
Do you think 8 and 11 is too young for al anon/ al al ateen?
Hugs, Alannon is for you. Alateen for them. Both the kids would be there if not for my location. It doesn't matter how many incidents. It's the escalation. You know your situation best. Keep coming back hugs p :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I slowly pulled my children back from my exAH over time because of his alcoholism. I want my children 15 and almost 5 years old to feel safe and secure in their lives. I don't let my little one stay at her dads without my oldest, because he will drink when my little one is there alone, but not when my oldest is there too. So we had to have some uncomfortable talks. I learned to make boundaries and to hold strong to them. I learned to attend al-anon and to teach my kids the tools I learned there. My oldest has seen a counselor who specializes in alcoholism to help her when she needs it. Alcoholism effects everyone around it and if you are noticing signs in your children I also suggest getting to al-anon meetings and your kids to counselor's who specialize in families of alcoholics and/or al-ateen if it is available in your area. Sending you much love and support!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
((((Maria)))) welcome again to the board. The story you are sharing is typical alcoholism and alcohol in the family. Everyone is unsafe including the alcoholic. How I learned to look at my alcoholic/addict wife was as two different people...my wife the non-intoxicated female and my alcoholic/addict who when toxic was insane; not normal, sick and unable to function in reality. She was a danger to the family and to herself and outside help was often necessary.
Like your husband I am alcoholic...I relate to how you drank and how he has progressed in the disease. He is not high-functioning. If he is living with another heavy drinking woman, drinking himself with a wife in another location, with kids that are hiding for safety and pleading for a pickup and run this is a high level irrational condition. Alcoholism is a disease....it isn't a moral issue. He's not a bad rational person he is a person overcome with an addiction to alcohol and an allergy to it. He drinks and his body rejects it, he drinks and his family and children reject it...his mind is gone, his emotions are out of whack, his body is hurting and his spirit is depressed. His behaviors cannot be acceptable or you have much more trouble coming.
Besides being alcoholic and a long time member of the Al-Anon Family Groups I am also a past behavioral health therapist who worked exclusively with alcohol and drug addicted people and their families. Alcoholism and Drug addiction are -fatal- diseases and those who die as a consequence of it often times are not drinkers and/or users.
If you Google or do a internet search about alcoholism and drug addiction your awareness of the use and abuse of these chemicals will grow beyond your past personal experiences. AA and Al-Anon have lots of literature, alot of it at no charge to help you understand. In Al-Anon the pamphlet "Alcoholism - A Merry-go-round named Denial" cam be helpful. If you can get a hold of the paperback "Under the Influence" that will greatly open your mind. It was one of my college texts.
How to support your children? Go for the local services such as Child and Family Services and sit down and tell them your story as you have done so here...without fear, guilt or shame. You're not telling lies you're letting others hear the truth. If you get another call like you did from your children under those conditions...call 911 in the area where they are at and give them the address and the complaint. Tell them you are on your way. Tell your daughter also that she can dial 911 to ask for help. If the only fear is that intoxicated Dad will get angry or angrier and crazier than he already is tell them not to worry about it...make the call...their very lives could depend on it. Keep coming back here to be supported and let us know how things are coming out. (((((hugs)))))
Thank you - I do have quite an understanding of alcoholism and addiction. Al my mothers siblings were alcoholics and she may have been too ( she died of cancer- I don't remember her drinking). I am in the UK and know how the police work - what would they have done? Nothing. The children aren't in physical danger. He shouted at them and spoke abusively to my to daughter. He would have told the police I was mad.
3 years ago I got mental health services involved for my daughter when she was saying she wanted to die. My ex and I saw a mental health nurse 3 times. I said I thought my daughter needed us to be more consistent in our approach, bedtimes etc and that she maybe needed someone to talk to away from both of us do that she could express her feelings without worry of upsetting us. My ex said he thought she was over sensitive and a bit dramatic. He also said what a great parent he was basically. During a phone call I told the nurse about his and his partners drinking and that I thought it was a problem. At the last session the therapist suggested I go to a parenting class ( didn't say why) and that we use a reward chart and that my daughters behaviour was normal.
My ex actually came out shocked that the nurse had reacted that way. I told him I felt that I did all the parenting and that I was worried about both their drinking. He said he would keep an eye on it.
I do think he has a problem with drinking. I know he is in denial and I know that's absolutely symptomatic of the disease. What I am worried about is how I deal with making this an issue for my children I have got to the point of considering that I need to but can anybody identify with the worry that I am tipping something into protection and drama when my children most of the time are happy and want to see their father?
It's almost as if I want something more extreme to happen so that I can protect them? It's never bad enough?
My children go to Alateen meetings. They love it. We went to one just yesterday afternoon. Where we live they are allowed to start at 7yrs of age. Even at this young age they receive the benefits from them.
Alanon has online alateen meetings from the age of 13 yrs. My children love these as well. If you check out the teen board on this site a daily reading is posted from a alateen daily reader. This may help your children as well. I know there are others over there who would be happy to correspond with them, if they choose to share.
I can relate to wishing for more drama so that I could have said see what I was telling you??!! however it isn't many people in services to the families who suffer from the affects of addiction who will stand up at the start and act as if what's happening is enough. I've met a few and then sadly only a few. I've seen tragedies happen while services were involved which could have prevented them. Too many to remember...some would still make me cry. Keep pressing the complaint button at the current level of concern and get to face to face Al-Anon meetings. Keep coming back here also. (((hugs)))
I am sorry you are going through this. I too have children and my ex is an alcoholic. I try to live by the slogan 'First thing first' For me that is the children. They must come first in all situations. If your children are scared then maybe you should see a lawyer about your husbands access. Your husband may be unable to be responsible for your children, accepting this then acting on the facts may be the way to go here. I spent years justifying the facts and turning them into mixed up thoughts and I was left unable to act on the facts.
If your kids are in need of help and you are far away then the police will help, they have a duty to respond. especially since it involves minors. I live in the UK too. Take care.x
Thank you all so much for your supportive posts and helpful advice.
I went to my first al anon group last Tuesday and shared my story. I was amazed that another woman came up to me at the end and said her ex husband sounded similar to my ex. That she had been previously married to a much more 'obvious' bottle hiding, morning drinking alcoholic so hadn't thought her next husband was. She said she brought her 10 year old daughter to a meeting because she couldn't find a sitter. Her daughter kept on coming and it was her inthe end who told her mother that her father was an alcoholic.
Since I last posted my daughter said she had noticed there were a massive number of bottles when her father had gone to the bottle bank, that her dad's girlfriend's son (15) had commented on the number as he knew they had last been 2 weeks before on his birthday. I went to my ex's house on Thursday last week and noted between 15 and 20 wine bottles on the kitchen side, quite neatly, not hidden at all. I don't want to ask my children too much about the drinking. I don't want to set them up as detectives but I felt I had to ask when the trip to the bottle bank was. My son and saughter talked about it and said it was last Monday. That's more than 15 bottles in 3 days.
My kids asked why I asked and I said it semed like a lot of wine to get through in 3 days, maybe they had a party. The kids said no, that dad's girlfriend always drinks 2 bottles, maybe 3. My son said 3 or 4 (he is younger).
I'm finding this hard because I do not want to focus on my ex and his drinking or his girlfriend's drinking. But I don't know what to do now. I can't just stop their dad from seeing them. It would cause such upset to them. They said they would like to spend Easter with me because they aren't going to their grandparents with their dad which they usually do. They said that the dad's girlfriend wants to do family stuff and they would rather be with me. I have just texted my ex to ask if that's OK, thinking he wouldn't mind. He said he has plans for them. I said they have asked if they could spend it with me this year for a change. He is still saying no.
I am sure that he will persuade the kids to spend it with him throug maybe some nice stuff he has planned with children they like. I don't want to deprive them of that. I won't see them now til Wednesday when I will ned to judge how things are.
I can't afford a solicitor or get legal aid because all my wage goes straight out on maintaing my mortgage and outgoings on my own. I'm already in debt. If I decide to pull overnights I will have to do it by saying I don't want them there while you are both drinking. I will have to then deal with nastiness and anger and rage. I don't know I'm strong enough when my kids will be hating me for doing it. They won't understand.
