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i have been dating a recovering alcoholic for the past 9 months. we are deeply in love with eachother and very committed. he has been so open about his recovery, and we are both very committed to self growth. we do fight, but we always come out on the other side with lessons gains and a better understanding of ourselves, and how we can improve.
a few months ago, i discovered that he had been watching porn after i went to sleep. i was extremely upset, and he was angry about my reaction, and i eventually sort of dropped it. the other night i dozed off during a movie, and woke up to him right next to me in bed, jerking off to porn. i was extremely upset and he would not respond. the next day i told him that i was willing to talk to him in a constructive way about it, but that if he felt this was normal, it was not something that i am willing or able to live with. he responded in a very hostile way, and told me there is nothing wrong with him, and he is insulted that i was insinuate that. i am beside myself, terrified, because he is telling me that all that happened is he was turned on after i fell asleep, and that's that. i understand that men watch porn and pleasure themselves, and that does not bother me. but we are in our twenties and already only having sex once a week, at most. in the beginning he was so interested sexually with me. but he is watching porn more than we have sex, and to do that right next to me instead of wanting me.......... i don't know what to think, or do, or say, i just feel crushed. i do not know if this is related to alcoholic behaviors, or if i am completely overreacting.
It was my experience in my first marriage that lack of sex and porn has everything to do with someone's lack of ability of being able to be emotionally available. Again my experience was we went from having sex once a week to less than that, it was like once every six months to once a year kind of thing. It took a huge toll on my self esteem.
This is not an issue to table and for me looking back it would be a deal breaker. It is really important to talk about these issues especially given if you are talking any kind of marriage.
Alanon would be very helpful for you in making sure your self esteem doesn't take a hit as well as learning how to communicate.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Thank you so much Pushka. I feel very alone because this is a hard topic for me to bring up, and I don't know how to talk about it at an Alanon meeting. I feel very confused, like maybe I am the uptight one with a problem, because he has been so emotionally available in every other way.I really appreciate the advice.
Just so you know you don't have to talk about this around the tables it's something though you could talk about with a sponsor. When you said he was in recovery I assume he has a sponsor as well? Alanon is about you and that's what I want to stress.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
as Pushka says :" lack of sex and porn has everything to do with someone's lack of ability of being able to be emotionally available." I can only approve of this statement telling from my own experience. Whenever my A would feel that uncomfortable emotions were addressed (and to an A ALL emotional issues are too much), he escaped into porn, into masturbation, even when we had a fight, he went o the next room, not to think but to jerk of, as a mechanism of escape from the pain of reality. It's just another drug of choice...it's not a really healthy coping skill in a relationship, as I found for myself...it's a quick fix, it's running away from reality.... A balanced healthy adult person would be able to sit down and talk about it if the partner expresses their concern. Watching porn is certainly not a crime, but if the relationship or the partner feels hurt by it, there should be a possibility to sit and talk about it, without guilt. Expressing one's needs and concern is not a crime either. it's a right....In our case also, the drugs and alcohol in the beginning, then the heavy masturbation blocked his ability to have a fulfilling sex life in the couple....because of course there was no creation intimacy possible in this selfish act. There are millions of combinations to enjoy a healthy fun sex life, but if it ends up being just HIS pleasure, lying next to me jerking of, or other 'solo-requests' from his side, then it's simply a selfish self-entered typical behavior of an addict...It's all about him. I decided I don't want such a life....I felt more and more lonely, and certainly not valued as a woman. He was merely in love with himself. taking taking taking....satisfying his needs...and suddenly I realized I was empty. just my story.....Thank HP it's over! listen to your gut feeling, you are worth it!
From everything I've seen, this is the period of the relationship in which you both are settling in and really getting to know the other person. Months 1-6 are the honeymoon period, months 6-12 are where you start to see the whole person, for good and for bad. That's a necessary learning phase. I agree with others that men looking at porn is normal and it's all a matter of degree. If your intimate life is not very strong, and instead he's escaping into porn, that's something to pay attention to. Porn in addition could be fine; porn instead doesn't sound fine. How you both are able to talk about this is also revealing of what he's capable of. It sounds as if the talk has not gone very well so far.
People are generally able to change a teeny little bit -- like, remembering to take the dishes to the sink after dinner -- but big personality changes generally don't happen in relationships. So he is showing you who he is, which is good. You can assess whether this is a long-term sustainable thing.
I know that I had always jumped into my relationships feet first and by this point was signed, sealed and delivered. When I found that the person was not really suitable or available for a healthy longterm relationship, I'd think, "Too late! He has to be suitable because here we are in it and I can't let it go! I'll just make him suitable!" Well, if that had ever worked I wouldn't be here. This is still the stage where you're getting to know the longterm possibilities. Different people have different needs -- for some, sex once a week would be all they wanted. For others, legitimately not. Don't talk yourself into being who you aren't or not having genuine needs. But this is a time to gently look at how the relationship is going and how your needs are being fulfilled.
Anon, good for you for bringing your concerns out in the open; out in the light they lose some of their power. I didn't have the internet and was too ashamed to talk to my friends, as we lived in a very small town. I suffered for many years. This is a confusing, gut wrenching topic as it hits us at the core of our femininity. My husband also has an addiction to porn/masturbation (and alcohol/pain meds). He is in a recovery program, but I know he still white knuckles the sexual stuff. I still struggle with my worth as a woman after 9 years of al anon. Before his recovery, my husband blamed me for all of his sexual dissatisfactions, even questioning my sexuality. I should have run the first time I stepped into his semen at the side of our bed. Keep coming back..hugs Paula
I don't see anything normal about porn nor do I think it is just something that men do, so my opinions are quite different. And I understand that today's porn is really insidious. I have seen some mainstream movies with sex xcenes that made me wonder if some humans mate like rabbits, and I thought that porn is perhaps influencing some filmmakers' consciousness. I grew up during the kiss to a fade out in movies and do not think that anything since has been an improvement. (I was insulted to the ground a couple of decades ago when my husband picked up a magazine in a convenience store and opened it.) The behaviors described would absolutely be intolerable to me. Porn objectifies women in the worst way, and an addict needs worse and worse stuff to look at over time, is my understanding.
Maybe there is a counselor in the next bigger town you could talk to. Welcome. I hope you come to a soluction that is right for you.
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
Temple, I tend to agree with your position regarding porn and how it objectifies women. In my opinion if the two people use viewing porn as a form of foreplay then, although it does nothing for me, I see nothing wrong with it. Mutual sexual satisfaction is an important part of a healthy relationship so that excluding your partner and withdrawing to a corner and self satisfying oneself is an extremely selfish act.
Alanon meetings, steps and a sponsor would help to clarify my position on this very offense to my self esteem and femininity
I have struggled with this and my AH at times. I see it as objectifying women but I can see how, if both partners are Ok with it, how it can be used in foreplay or as a means of excitement. Again, only if both partners are on board. My AH justified his porn viewing by claiming I was a crappy Christian woman because I wasn't having sex with him. I had already made it clear that I don't trust him, I am severely hurt by his words and actions and I don't want to have sex with him at this point. To him, it has been justifiable actions because of my withdrawl sexually from our marriage. I, still, can't bring myself to have sex with my AH. I am not attracted to him in any way. The lies, the accusations, the porn, the DUI, the blaming(and other alcoholic personality issues) have all made it nearly impossible for me to WANT him in that way. I have no idea if I will get it back.
Anyway, I would talk to my sponsor about this issue or a therapist. You haven't been in your relationship very long and if there are red flags already, I'd definitely get counsel from others. A third party always gives me clarity when I feel my situation is clouded and I can't determine which way I want to go.
I still have difficulty being sexually attracted to my husband and it concerns me. Even though he has been in recovery, I just feel intuitively that there is still something hiding in the background that keeps me cautious. This thread is so important. This is a topic I have discussed at length with my sponsor, but having this venue, too, is wonderful. I appreciate the honesty in the posts, thank you. Paula
From a male perspective: I grew up looking at porn... it has done nothing good for me. It does objectify women but then our whole society does that also. You can't watch tv for more than 5 minutes without seeing advertisers using the female body to sell their product. I don't think that is the biggest problem with porn. The biggest problem is that it can be truly addictive and also desensitize you to sexuality. In my humble opinion if you guys are in your twenties and he would rather jerk it than wake you up then you are NOT getting him that excited sexually. Once a week? in your twenties? NO THIS IS NOT GOOD. I think it may be that unless you act like a total whore like the girls in the videos you will not be able to satisfy him like jerking itto porn does.5 If this is an issue for you now it is only going to get worse. The fact that he is so defensive about it says to me that this is an important part of his life already. Iwould like to point out however that this does not reflect negatively on how this guy feels about you. It doesn't change one iota all the good qualities of your relationship. In no way does this reflect badly on you or wether he finds you attractive enough or not. What's really at issue here is how this will effect the level of intimacy between the two of you. What is at issue is how this is going to make YOU feel about him. Either you can live with it and accept him for who he is with all of his problems including this one or you can't because you take it as a personal affront to you and internalize it to the detriment of your own self esteem which will lead to you resenting him for MAKING you feel badly about yourself. You then end up with zero intimacy which will KILL your relationship.
i sincerely appreciate all the responses. i just feel like i'm spinning with confusion and sadness. we talk about spending our lives with eachother, and now we are no longer speaking. it feels like it is my fault, like i should have been calm about it instead of being so upset and mad. he told me that he is not interested in speaking to me because i am acting like he has a problem, when he was really just horny while i was sleeping. i don't know which to think. it just doesn't seem right that he would rather jerk off than be with me.
I think you are absolutely correct about the addictive quality of pornography. I don't know if a Sociopath is to be believed about anything, but I remember an interview with Ted Bundy in which he said everyone he had met on death row had started out with pornography.
I only ever watched two episodes of Friends, and in one of them, the cast were talking about porn as if it were just a given. I think today's young women have been sold a bill of goods. I don't see how it is ever acceptable. And I wouldn't want to be with someone whose sexual drive was so one-off that it was necessary as a turn-on. I think the natural drive has been subverted.
And maybe that is just me--all the blatant stuff would do for somebody like me would be to turn me off totally and forever.
I don't recall ever hearing about its doing any goodi; I can't think of it as wholesome.
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
I just want to add a slightly different perspective. I believe the statistics are that something like 99.99% of men look at porn. I'm not making that up as a joke; the statistic really is something like that. So whether it's good or bad, my guess is that it's going to be very difficult to find a man who doesn't look at it. What I see as the real issue is how the relationship is. If the sex in the relationship is working for both partners, and if the communication is good, and if other things in the relationship are healthy and working, then that counts as a good relationship, as far as I can see. If the other things are not working, then that's a problem. Take out the issue of porn, and are things good? It doesn't sound like they are. That's enough for concern, even without the porn, in my book.
Thank you for the male perspective. My husband and I are in our 50's and after many years of his daily masturbation and porn, he cannot maintain an erection...this is, I believe, the most difficult addiction, as it is so cloathed in shame that it is difficult for the addict to address. It is much easier to talk about pills and alcohol and more acceptable. Anon, your friend sounds to me like he is deeply addicted and you are already engaging in some destructive self talk...get help fast.
Aloha Anon - I'm sorry you're hurting so much from this experience.
Do you attend Al-Anon meetings? If you haven't been getting to any, I would really suggest you go. The steps I would put this through refer to an Al-Anon approach to most problems, and they will make better sense if you're attending meetings and reading the literature regularly.
The best thing you can do at this moment is get clear on whether or not this behavior is bothering you.
After that, then this would be something I would personally have to take through the steps, understanding that I am powerless over another person's choices and behaviors and that my attempting to change them so I can feel okay is making me miserable.
There's no right or wrong here. It only boils down to how you feel personally and if you feel like you can accept this trait in your boyfriend or not. There is no judgement needed on if what he's doing is "normal" or not. You just ask yourself how YOU feel in all of this and THAT is what is important.
thank you Aloha. i went to my first al anon meeting tonight, but i didnt share. i feel alone because it seems like such a taboo and private subject to bring up in a room full of people that dont know me. i fear i would make people uncomfortable. some of the readings did help, but i still feel very lost, because i am sure that this behavior bothers me but i do not not not want to leave him. i keep having hope that he will realize what is going on and want to change. which i guess is an unhealthy thing to be thinking? i don't know. at al anon someone talked about mirroring, and how a sponsor had told her that she should write down a list of all the things she doesnt like about someone, and then work on those things herself. which i totally agree with, but i cant figure out how that applies to this situation. i know i project a lot onto him, and his respsone has made me feel that i did something wrong, that i should have replied with a loving tone instead of an angry/upset one. i will keep going to meetings, and hopefully be able to find someone to talk to about it. but, thank you so much, it means the world to have a forum like this, and advice from people like you.
Anon, when I get confused, I render myself powerless, surrender to my higher power ( I visualize placing the issue/person in God's hands), tell myself "easy does it", talk to my sponsor, attend a face to face meeting, etc. I make no decision out of confusion until I feel the strength to make a choice that appears to be for my highest good. To be more direct, it does not sound to me like you can make a big decision, yet, regarding your overall relationship, however, talk through with a trusted someone that can help you with the immediate decisions, like, "do i want to have dinner with him tonight?" There is a very good reason why the al anon slogan, one day at a time, is powerful. For me, sometimes it is one hour at a time. It is also ok if you keep some distance from him for some time. If you continue going to meetings, you will get clarity and strength..ask anyone on this site and they will tell you the same thing.
I am a man. Man are such that they will screw a hole in a fence post if its lubricated. LOL Masterbation and self gratification has been taking place since the beginning of time for males and females. (Predominately in the absince of an opposite sex mate) However... men tend to have a deep sense of shame attached to it. They rarely can talk about it, unless in a joking manner because it does affront their own sense of manihood. Why? Someone already said it... they have a hard time being emotionally connected to the woman they are with, and/or... it allows them to deal with their own physical inadeqacy to perform while still getting some basic need met for themselves. For some, porn is an enticement that allows them to even be able to get and maintain an erection long enough to bring about some form of sexual satisfaction.
What do you need to do about it? NOTHING. It's his problem, his pecker and his hand.
What do you need to do for YOU? Now comes the hard work. You need to ask yourself some honest and direct questions and give yourself some honest and direct answers.
"Am I truly willing to be in a relationship with a man who is more sexually intimate with his hand than with me?"
"Am I a woman who when sexually neglected because my mate is masterbating to porn, that feels that she is being cheated on in that process?" (My experience has been that if you feel it, its a reality with the same emotional and mental baggage that an actual affair would create.)
"If this is what our early relationship looks and feels like, am I willing and able to endure it for years in front of me?"
"If, as a woman, at the age of 20ish, and I am with a man that doesn't meet my needs... do I want to be stuck in the relationship with such a man in my 30's, when I am at my sexual peak as a woman?"
Of course there are many more questions you might want to ask yourself, and the issue for him is much deeper than my simple outline, but can it be resolved before it destroys the relationship? Unfortunately, usually not without professional help. Are you willing to set a boundary that requires both of you to see a professional counselor, and possibly have him see a medical doctor (I love viagra! LOL But hey I'm in my 50's) in order to continue participating in a relationship with him?"
Right now, it is probably best you talk to a woman in the rooms who has been in a sucessful relationship for a period of time. Because unless we talk to those who are doing it, we will not ever learn how.
John
P.S. When ya get mad... try not to call him a "jerk off". LOL
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
