The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'm new here and I haven't attented Al anon yet. I plan to, and reading these forums has encouraged me. I am currently separated and seriously considering divorce. My AH and I have been married 4 and a half years have a two year old who currently lives with me. My AH would go on weekly benders that lasted for up to 10 hours and then would sleep for 24 hours or more. He lied, gambled, stole from our accounts and neglected me and our daughter in our times of need. Not to mention the emotional abuse. He has been to rehab once and attended AA briefly. Since his last relapse 2 months ago he has according to him and his mother been "drinking normally" and only having "one or two" or "I just don't feel like it any more". I am aware of the damage that living with a alcohol dependant father will have on my daughter and I realise that nothing I say or do will help him. He is begging me to take him back, and he says that he'll do whatever it takes, however, doesn't want to go to AA. I believe he would do anything to come back home, but eventually he'll start up again. Can anyone relate?
I can relate to that cuz I've heard that story on here like 5 billion times....not that I don't feel for you. I'm saying that so you know you are not alone. If I had a nickel for every time I have heard "I'll do anything!!!.....except go to AA (which is the the main thing I need to do)."
I don't believe it's about trusting him. It's about his alcoholism. I can only tell you as an alcoholic, that I only started to have a chance when I said "I will do anything to not suffer from this disease anymore" and I really meant "ANYTHING." That included going to AA and continuing to go. Recovery needs to last a lifetime. Without a firm AA program in place, there will be a time when the alcoholic says "screw it" and the disease takes over. It takes months and/or years of ongoing meetings to build up a defense against that relapse. He may have a form of alcoholism that is slightly different that that of a daily drinker, but it's still alcoholism. After several years in AA, I have come across a few types that are "bender" drinkers like your husband. That type of drinking is just as bad and the fact that they might be able to sometimes have 1 or 2 does not make it "not a problem." If anything, that shows how sick a person is that they would fight so hard to keep alcohol in their life even at "1 or 2" drinks after it has reaped nothing but destruction. I had a sponsee in AA who drank bender style like that and I'm pretty sure he is dead now.
My point is that I'd bet he is sincere with what he is saying, but he doesn't know what he doesn't know. He is unaware that the voice of his alcoholism is talking through him. You can trust his sincerity, but don't trust the disease.
Aloha New Me and welcome to the board...I started reading you post and thought it would be a great anonymous advertisement to run before or after an alcohol manufacturers ad and "drink responsibly" tag. You are qualified to be here and qualified for that chair you will find at your first Al-Anon meeting. I am beyond grateful for finding the program; I was able to undo many of the problematic conditions that alcoholism caused in my life from both sides of my family. It is a disease...It is an ancient disease...it isn't slowing down much except for in the rooms of recovery. Take an open mind and run to your first meeting. Look at the literature rack that they have...some will be free...and read as much as you can about the disease as you can. Plan of coming back and letting us know who it came out for you. ((((hugs))))
In my experience, the work they do has to be done without us. That is a very common plea and I honestly believe they mean it when they say it, the problem is, status quo is very easy change is hard. If nothing changes, nothing changes. So for myself, I have to see time and committment to the work being done without me as a crutch before I will trust it.
As for the separation, getting back together or getting divorced - always remember you have time to think, you don't need to make a decision right now. Keep coming back :)
Most alcoholics grow up in an environment where drinking is seen in a lot of denial. I used to be tremendously angry at the people around the now ex A. Today I was thinking about it and really he didn't have anyone around in his life who wasn't an alcoholic, in a family of an alcoholic or a drug addict themselves. That is apart from maybe a few bosses and some doctors or some incidental people. He literally lived submerged in his alcoholism. For the ex A there was never any question of sobriety. He had at times got sober long long before I met him. He had no interest at all in ever doing that again. His promises were all about how the situations he was in were never of his making. How someone let him down, didn't pay him, betrayed him, used him up, lied to him, didn't come through the same long long saga. Whatever happened it was never ever his fault on any level at all. He could be very very convincing about it. The ex A also lived in a lot of chaos, constant acitity or a total shut down. He once spent 3 weeks locked in the bedroom playing games. There was never a quiet normal, peaceful life. There was either manic activity or a total shut down.
I can relate very much to leaving and having contact and wanting for the best. I left the ex A a number of times. Even when I left him for good I had contact for a full year because on so many levels I doubted myself.
I am glad you are here reaching out for support, care and understanding. A great resource, one you will see mentioned often is Getting them Sober. I think that book is a mainstay with anyone dealing with an alcoholic in early recovery or still in denial. There are many suggestions that help when you are new to the program. I think the best is to give it a try, see how you feel. Tread slowly and give yourself the space to see if this works for you.
An alcoholic will do and say anything to get what they want , I have learned to not pay attention to what people say , I watch what they do . If he was serious he would go to AA for support and help with his addiction ,as they say in AA an alcoholic will go to any length if sobriety is thier goal . just my opinion Louise
Being married to an A is a hard and lonely road. Like Iyanla says, only the best students get the hardest lessons.
My ex (an A) went golfing while I was having a miscarriage. I could have written your post.
You can and will get through this...but it will probably be on your own...without much support from him. He is not capable... So focus on what YOU want and what YOU can do for you
I made the decision that I could carry my family by myself, but I was no longer willing to carry him too..the costs (emotional and financial) were just too high...and 2 years later...things are looking brighter...it takes a long time...
Whatever decision you come to...keep reading...keep posting..and try to link up to some local alanon meetings and folks..because we understand in ways that others don't...
sending you strength...
-- Edited by rehprof on Saturday 27th of October 2012 07:59:10 AM
Thank you to all who responded to my post, I truly appreciate hearing your opinions. This is the first time I have reached out in a forum such as this and I was hoping tonight as I turned the computer on to find that someone had heard me and understood. My AH also comes from a family of Alcoholics. His father, uncles, grandfather and brothers all drink heavily. His father's marriage also ended in divorce and he acknowledges that his drinking is a consequence of both nature and nurture. The entire time I've been married I have wondered how everyone involved with these men could just go on ignoring the HUGE elephant in the room. In the past 4 and a half years I have become obsessed with helping him and as a result have become less of who I was. I have come to realise that I was becoming co dependent and this has made me very unhappy. I keep thinking that if a woman like me, educated, loved, and supported by family and friends can be made to feel worthless, lonely and unfulfilled; then what will this do to my daughter as she grows? Even though to outsiders he seems to be 'functioning', within our marrieage he was not. When he isn't out drinking or hungover, he is on the couch or in bed, disconnected and thinking about how to get a drink. He is miserable for the week, until he can go out and drink again. Sometimes he can last longer than a week, but that doesn't change his mood at home. Trust is still my biggest issue however. He went on a bender the night our daughter was born, leaving the moment I left the delivery ward. He also left me alone while I was having a miscarriage. He chose alcohol over me in my darkest hour and I was also alone with my then one year old. A few months later when our daughter had pneumonia he went to his mothers to drink alone becasue he Quote "Couldn't handle my baby being sick." I may sound cruel and unforgiving, yet, I have forgiven him, I just fear that taking him back will mean allowing this kind of behaviour to continue. As for taking my time to decide, I feel as though I have wasted so much time, among other things. If I act sooner rather than later, formalising the current arrangement we have for our daughter will be my primary concern, however, when I mention that I don't see a future for us, he either threatens me, and any 'future' partner with violence and when that doesn't work he says that he'll fight for more custody. I think I'm giving him more chances because I'm afraid of what he'll do just to spite me. He is so desperate to come back he is prepared to say and do whatever. Be it bully me or act devistated and desperatelly in love. I know this isn't healthy. I'm just so caught up in this mess.
Welcome. You've gotten such great responses. Glad you found us and hope you'll keep coming back for recovery with us.
Something that really stood out for me in your own responding post was that your husband is threatening violence concerning you or anyone you might become involved with.
Although we're cautious about giving advice to newcomers or anyone else for that matter in this program - one suggestion that we do make, is to take threats of violence such as your husband is making and his perceived notion of getting full custody of your daughter very seriously. Some fear is healthy. Denial is not in our best interest. I hope you'll put your personal safety and ultimately that of your child up front as you contemplate a very serious life decision.
Also... his mother's two cents about his drinking might be better kept in her own pocket. Hmmm... Beware of Mom. Drinking buddy? In his eyes maybe the only good woman that every lived because she agrees with his drinking? The salt of the earth around the rim of his marguerita glass? She's enabling him, not helping him or you and your children. Alanon might help her.
I hope you find some in person Alanon meetings where people understand and truly get it as has already been suggested. You and your children deserve sanity and safety. Hugs. TT
__________________
Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
In my drinking days, I was so emotionally retarded. Your last post describes a full grown man running home to his mommy for enabling every time his ego gets bruised. It also describes emotional immaturity in the form of threats, bullying....
It makes me sad, but you very much highlighted how this is so much more than just drinking. Alcoholism halts a persons emotional growth and leaves them at the age at which they started using alcohol to cope. In the past I not only acted like that, but I tolerated it in relationships because I just didn't want to accept reality and I guess I figured I did something to deserve to be unhappy...I also figured it would change or I could change it. It took for things to get really bad before I acknowledged that my own drinking and that of my partner were way beyond the scope of my control. Total powerlessness. I threw my hands up on the relationship and went to AA for myself the next day (the story is a bit different with both me and my ex-A being alcoholics) but it's the same because alcoholism wrecks lives and relationships.
"he says that he'll do whatever it takes, however, doesn't want to go to AA."
I told my ex that he had to go to AA, didn't say stop drinking, just AA - he promised he would, then made every excuse to keep from having to follow through, turned it on me, saying that unless I went to AA with him and admitted I had a drinking problem too, he wouldn't go anymore, wouldn't pay his obligations, etc. He didn't accept my own participation in my own program, didn't accept my determination that AA is NOT something you do as a couple.
Once I identified the problem as the alcohol, then I knew the solution; I understood that unless we both took the solution seriously, it wouldn't do any good to keep trying as a couple. Mine also said he would do anything it took to get back together but those were just empty words that he didn't back up by going to AA to fulfill my only condition. Whatever it takes did not include AA, well, then what does the phrase mean?
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Thank you again to all the replies. They are very insightful and helpful. Reading these posts I can see that many of you have come a long way in your recovery and that is so very commendable.
An update to the situation is that he was meant to see our daughter today as was the arrangement and he texted in the morning saying that unless I had an answer not to bring her. I had previously asked for some space, but he kept insisting I give him another chance to prove himself. I could tell just from the text that he had been drinking the night before and he later admitted to it. He came to my house in a frantic mood apparently wanting to see our daughter, however, he just wanted to talk to me. Crying, pleading and begging, saying he'll do whatever it takes, just for a chance to prove himself. He'll quit Cricket, and the team mates he drinks with. Even said he'll go to AA now!
I could smell the alcohol on his breath from the night before!! And when I pointed that out his response was "what did you expect I would do? You wouldn't speak to me and I couldn't sleep." He blames me for his drinking and then expects me to give him another chance. Whenever I tell him that we are over for good he becomes frantic and tries to convince me otherwise.
My head is telling me not to take him back and not to believe him. When I see him crying and hear him say that he loves me and can't live without me, my heart breaks. I do feel frightened however, of what he might do either way. Get back with him and risk being disappointed or finally end it and risk the back lash.
He may not be having huge benders, but his brain is still toxic every time he consumes and this is clearly affecting his judgement.
As for his mother, she is not a drinker and has been supportive of me up until now. She has confirmed that his drinking has slowed and I do believe her. She also divorced his father for the same habit, so she understands what we are going through. I do, however, agree with Pinkchip and Tiredtonite, she is enabling him.
Hi new me and welcome. im in a very very similar situation. my AW and i have seperated for a month now, and i completly understand your hurting and have been in the exact situation as you are in at the moment. your hearts probably breaking with guilt, pity and going through a seperation to boot can really take control of your judgment. the best advice i was given was
When I have been in crisis...I go back to keeping it simple.
what are the things I can control? I try to eat well, and stay hydrated. I try to rest. I try to spend time with people who are good for me, and good to me (who don't judge). I come here to vent. I take a bath or a long shower.
It makes me more stressed to think about the big picture when things are in chaos...so I just concentrate on the the next right thing I need to do.
ODAT ..or even one hour at a time...
You will get through this to the other side. One step at a time...
and read getting them sober which will help u tremendously, here is a free pdf online book for u to check out.
This is a painful and challenging situation. You wrote that you didn't know whether to "Get back with him and risk being disappointed" -- I just wanted to add that if he is not strong in a program of recovery like AA or similar, it's not just a risk, it's a certainty. If he could stop drinking, he would have done it. And you can see the effects of his alcoholism. Even when people enter AA, it's very hard to stay on track -- that's how powerful alcoholism is. Many people try and relapse many times. A good many of those people do not achieve longterm sobriety. Of course, a certain number do achieve longterm sobriety. But the road there is not easy for anyone. But here's the good news: you have time. If he's going to go to AA and stick with it and get sober and stay sober, it will all become apparent. If he says, "There's no need to do it unless you come back," then you know his real goal is to get you back in place, not to get sober. And unless his real overarching goal is to get sober, he won't make it -- it's not going to happen accidentally as a side effect!
What I've seen happen usually is this. The drinker is in a panic about the other person leaving, and swears he'll start AA and get sober. The partner comes back. The drinker goes to AA for a while. Then the partner starts to notice funny little things seeming off. Then the drinker says he doesn't need to go to AA any more because it's not really for him ("They're not like me") and anyway the problem is solved. So he'll just stay sober without it, he says. Then more things start to seem a little off. Pretty soon the roller-coaster is in full swing again. And the partner is thinking, "Now I have to start my own recovery, and leaving (if that's the choice), all over again. I wish I'd kept on with it a year ago." Oh boy, been there done that!
But you do have time. If he's going to get sober, it will happen. And if you decide to separate, I know the backlash seems frightening and painful. But staying in this chaos of lying, drinking, gambling, and turmoil is also frightening and painful. But one decision leads to serenity. Keep on taking good care!
To all who have replied. I thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom. ' so glad to have found this forum during this stressful time. It makes me sad to realise that so many people are suffering or have suffered like me.
Davie I hope that you continue to stay positive and how lovely of you to be comforting others while you are also hurting. And Mattie you know exactly what I mean, I hope things have improved for you now. I know exactly how you felt.
I do realise that he still has a big problem and I know that it should come from him to seek help. Every time he has been involved in any program be it rehab, AA or counselling it has been instigated and pushed on him by me. And every time, I have threatened to leave him if he didn't go. I realise that this is what is happening now. I guess I do have time, however, I just seem to feel this sense of urgency. Maybe it's because I have wasted so much time feeling miserable and living someone else's life! I also think that the more time that goes by the more messy things become. Being separated has become progressively more difficult and he is putting so much pressure on me to take him back. Saying things like "you've ripped my heart out" "this is your fault now, because you won't take me back and I'll do anything". And the fact that I was in the same position last year, but gave in. I just want peace.
I don't have much wisdom to share with anyone tonight, I still feel buried in my crisis. But I'll take your good advice and eat, sleep and surround myself with loved ones. What more can one do?
