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Ok, so I went to my first meeting. Not really what I thought. I plan on continuing with Al-Anon to give it a chance as everyone has suggested. I also plan on attending more than one group to see which one "fits" me if that makes sense. I was the only male there and most of the women were older (I am 40).
I still fill ill, dreading tonight. I plan on telling her I saw the bottles. I plan on saying that this totally wrecked my day. I also am going to say I am not sure I'm able to stay at the house, taking it day to day at this point. I also plan to say I have some severe trust issues at this point. I'm trying to figure out a way to be civil and not confrontational about it. Advice?
How do I respond to the questions we have all heard:
"I will stop drinking." I don't want to go all in on that one but don't want to be discouraging either.
"I will cut back." What do you say there?
"That is old stuff from before we talked." Clearly a lie in my eyes, but still trying not to be confrontational.
Some good friends of mine, the wife who is friends with my wife, has offered to call and talk to her about it. Not sure that is a good idea but can it hurt? Pros and cons?
Thanks again to everyone. I feel like I am starting to monopolize things here but the messages are the only thing that is keeping my sanity.
Okay you got that first meeting in and found your chair and were surrounded by a lovely bounty of Al-Anon women...Yay for you!! You came away from it like I came away from mine...I'm still in...Was at my "Home Group" last evening and it was great!! The early suggestions from the elders for me was "go to 90 meetings in 90 days" and after 90 days if you decide that Al-Anon isn't for you, you can try anywhere else you like and we will gladly refund your miseries. NOT FUNNY!! I reserved judgement of "them" and didn't do any of my old tricks at home until 90days were past. Give the AFG a chance to work as I gave myself a chance to work it. I came in with "my program" which wasn't working at all and so left it at the door while I learned about "the progam". I got my sanity and life back....Keep coming back cause this works when you work it and I'd suggest...for and from me, refrain from going back to your old behaviors for now...If you have any questions about that...ask the MIP family including myself. ((((hugs))))
so glad you went! Do go to more meetings, everything you've asked here, you will find answers at meetings.
One question I often ask a newcomer, in similar situation, is ... "what if you don't?" What if you don't say anything? What if you don't threaten to leave? What if you wait until it becomes clear (and it will, with time, and sponsorship)?
I know I struggle because I want it fixed... and fixed now (or yesterday even)! However, many blessings have come out of my waiting for clarity and seeking experience.
So glad you are using these boards bc right now mind is racing and as we say, "butt is on fire"... and you're doing something different than you've done before ... you're seeking experience from those who have it to give. Good job!
Keep it up!
And certainly not trying to be mean by ANY means cause I really do mean you guys are what is holding me together, but isn't the evidence cleare now she has a problem? I have heard many say when the A hits rock bottom then they might change. But why should I wait until something bad happens. Isn't this enough?
Unfortunately it's not when it is enough for YOU, but when it is enough for HER. It is her rock bottom, not yours.....
Confronting, making demands, etc - is not typically a recommended course of action until a couple of things happen..... Do you have something specific/actionable for her to do (or not do), and are you prepared to have her accept the consequences of that action (or inaction).
Most of us have made the mistake of idle threats, that are NOT connected with consequences....
Telling a sick & irrational person to "stop being sick and start being rational, or else", tends to be an exercise in frustration and futility for us. When we don't follow through on our ultimatums, it only helps the addict feel that they can keep doing exactly what they have been doing....
What our program teaches us - in a nutshell - is to do what is best and healthiest to get yourself sane and healthy - the A will either choose to get better, or they won't..... Typically, we need to have ourselves in a fairly good place, emotions-wise, before we are ready to fully embrace, and enforce, any such plans.
Have you got a copy of "Getting Them Sober", volume one, written by Toby Rice Drews? It is an awesome book, and will provide you with a ton of insight into the path you may choose to take here.
Take care
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thanks for the reply. She actually just texted me and asked how my day was going. I replied "Not so good." I now do not plan on saying anything about the wine bottles. Nothing against the Al-Anon meeting but at one point in the meeting I almost broke down crying just thinking "How is it that I am here." I never dreamed in my entire lifetime that I would be sitting in a meeting because my wife is an alcoholic. After the meeting I went to the bathroom and then broke down. When the AW asks why my day was not so good, I'm just going to reply I went to an Al-Anon meeting today and it was kinda tough, then leave it at that. Before I had told her that I was going to a counselor and group meeting, but never told her it was Al-Anon.
Sometimes it is useful to confront the person - not for them but for US -- because it shows that confronting things doesn't lead to any changes. It typically leads to an argument and to the non-alcoholic becoming very, very frustrated and upset.
If you want, you could set up a "control" situation like a scientific experiment. "I did X -- how did it work out?" I'm not recommending specifically that you do that. I'm just saying that if you choose to mention the bottles or confront her, keep careful tabs on what happens. I know I always had the fantasy that my A would see the light. That never did happen.
I rarely could refrain from mentioning things, early on. What I learned to do was to say it very calmly. "I found those bottles. I don't know whether you were drinking from them last night or two years ago or whether the guy next door planted them in our trash." [All excuses that might be used.] "But the terror I have of your drinking again means that even seeing bottles when I don't know when they were drunk is enough to make me very cautious. I really can't go through those blackouts and chaos and destruction. So I'm going to go to bed now and think what to do later on, but right now I am not feeling sociable." At first he would argue a blue streak, but in later months he'd just roll his eyes and that would be the end of the conversation.
Ultimately what makes a difference for the serenity of everyone is figuring out appropriate boundaries to set, then setting them and following through. It takes a while to think through the options and figure out the best way to go about it, and how to follow through. Setting boundaries and not following through generally causes more upset than doing nothing. So we're best advised to wait to set boundaries until we have some good program tools and a good idea of how it all works. Meetings and these boards can help with that. Take good care of yourself.
At this point I think I have decided it is not the specific bottles in the trash, but the grander scene of her alcohol consumption. When I tell her I went to Al-Anon and am going to me portrays the point that I think she has a drinking problem.
I was the only male there and most of the women were older (I am 40).
hehehhe, I'm sorry but I couldn't help but chuckle when I read that. Not maliciously by any means but that is exactly how my first meeting went. The only difference is I was 26! In a room of 50-somethings. I thought I'd never belong. Now I am the Group Representative of that very same group.
In addressing "bottom" comment, I'd like to offer some things in my life I've witnessed. I have an uncle who died from the disease at 70. I have a cousin who hit his "drug" bottom only after years of selling his body for drugs, homelessness, etc, and I mean years - like 30 years. So for him he's off drugs but he drinks and still has "stinking thinking". My exRBF had almost 3 years sober then 3 relapses in a row. Second led to homelessness, now only for a few days but still, 48 year old man living in his car? Third resulted in loss of me, loss of the room he barely paid rent for to get out of his homeless state and friends that basically had an intervention "we are going to set you up in a sober rental (not halfway, just roommate who is sober also) BUT you screw this up and we ALL will turn our backs on you.
That was 2 months ago, he's still sober but he changed something. He went back to what was working when he was sober nearly 3 years and he made an effort to get the new sponsor he needed (he had one that was taking his relapses personally so it was time to change).
Bottom isn't a one time deal in most cases, although I'm sure in a few. And honestly some never hit it (uncle). It's a sad disease. While they make the choice to pick up the bottle, they deep down inside really do NOT want to have the disease. But WE, those of us who love the A, WE are not to control bottom. We simply focus on boundaries. Our boundaries allow us to detach. They allow us to stop feeling responsible for helping them. And in time we have less and less resentment and anger because their drinking has nothing to do with us.
You sure don't have to play happy-happy with her, that's for sure. Maybe think of one boundary you can set to start the process of detaching. I've seen a few here with married persons - such as not sleeping in same room with active alcoholic. Not speaking to active alcoholic. Getting away from (going to stay with relative or friend for awhile) them. Or sending them away. I'm sure there are a hundred possible first boundaries but the getting them sober book is GREAT, get it yesterday, great place to start with all of this.
Do something nice for yourself to take the focus off her.
Brother you are going to be inclinded toward doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results...that is the course called habit. She has a drinking habit...you have a _________ habit. Sit quietly and reflect on what you have been doing that hasn't worked and then fill in the space. Mentioning that you are going to Al-Anon definitely is a finger point and that doesn't work. When I tried to one up my alcoholic/addict I would shoot myself in the foot everytime and then in Al-Anon use to accept that my intentions were wrong and sick and after I would yell "OUCH!!" I would say, "There...I got myself good that time". If you have the ODAT daily reader try climbing into the index and read up on the subjects which concern you now. Read about having honest intentions and the like. There is one page in the ODAT (the number of it escapes me) which says something like, "I say that I would do anything to help my alcoholic recover except get off of her back". I'm a visual listener, I listen for metaphors (pictures) and often I talk in pictures because that is what works for me and the picture of me riding my alcoholic/addicts shoulders as she struggled to stand up straight and work on getting clean and sober was enough of a picture for me. I wrote a song for an Al-Anon convention titled "Detach" and part of the lyrics were "Detach...Detach...get off of the worlds aching back. You can't do for you what you need to its true till you learn dear old boy to detach". Read up on detachment and ask the fellowship in your area to teach, teach, teach you.
One day at a time...one hour or minute at a time, on those tough days early in recovery.
I used to count the beers in the fridge before I went to bed, and after I got up. I would look to see if all the empties were in the trash, or if he was trying to hide some from me. Once he started working second shift, I used to make sure I woke up when he got home, and then I would lay in bed and listen to him open can after can after can.
I was miserable, and my misery was not because of the drinking. My misery was because of my REACTION to the drinking.
You may very well end up, after reflection and therapy and consideration, that you are NOT able to maintain your serenity while still living with an actively drinking alcoholic. But I am also sure that there are many, many tools that can be learned in Al Anon and/or in therapy for coping with the situation in a way that lessens your misery, by turning your focus from your wife on to yourself.
I started running a fan in the bedroom at night, to cover up the noises. Now I just sleep through the whole thing. I know he's drinking. I don't know exactly how many, and I don't care very much any more, because I KNOW that to drink at all is a disaster for him. Knowing whether it was 6 or 7 or 8 does nothing to make me feel better. I used to justify my obsession by convincing myself that knowledge was power...that the more I knew about what he was doing, the more power I would have over it. Of course, I had no power over it at all. The knowledge I did need was a base level of knowledge about the disease itself, and then a whole lot of knowledge about myself, my boundaries, my motivations, etc.
I agree one thousand percent with Canadianguy...once you accept that alcoholism has rendered your loved one irrational, sick, and insane, it becomes MUCH easier to let go of trying to control them. It becomes MUCH easier to quit taking it personally when they "choose alcohol" over you, or don't make good on the hundredth promise to sober up, or whatever.
I do believe that for some people, there are certain things that need to be said for that person's serenity. But the wonderful book Getting Them Sober points out that while it may be important to communicate in a non-judgmental, non-emotional way with your alcoholic that their drinking is NOT ok, and that you believe your loved one who drinks is an alcoholic, there isn't much to be gained by saying it over and over and over and over and over again, except fights and negativity. I have told my AH a few times that I believe he is an alcoholic. Some times he will admit he has a "problem." Other times he will insist that it is acceptable for him to call me names, because I have called him names (an alcoholic is an insult to him, not an acknowledgement of a serious disease).
Like you, I attended a handful of Al Anon meetings filled with people I couldn't relate much to, who basically just sat around and complained about the alcoholics in their lives. But there are so many wonderful groups out there, filled with people from all walks of life, of all ages and backgrounds, who are going through EXACTLY what you are going through, who can provide support, and feedback, and a listening ear. Keep coming back...
What seemed to help me the most is when I developed sincere compassion for the alcoholics in my life. I stopped asking the questions that I already knew the answers to. I did this because I knew that the more questions I asked and the more he had to lie the more guilt was heaped on him. We all know that alcoholics are riddled with guilt about their lieing, hiding, losing their families and continuing to let their loved ones down. I no longer need to keep reminding him of all that he has lost in his life. What I do need to do is to leave him to his recovery and concentrate on my recovery.
I have one A in recovery and one still in denial. Thank Alanon and HP that I completely understand with #2 that no matter what I say to, explain to, show examples of, cry about, ask questions... of my son... will not make him seek recovery. That will not happen until he is sick and tired of being sick and tired. Now I can only take care of me as I watch him walk down the same road my son in recovery walked down after losing his family, jobs, getting dui's and still suffering and trying to work through all the guilt he carries from living in this disease for so long.
I like what Mattie said and it is just so true:
Sometimes it is useful to confront the person - not for them but for US -- because it shows that confronting things doesn't lead to any changes
What a relief to know I no longer have to confront. It made me so crazy!!!!
Stephaniej said:
I used to justify my obsession by convincing myself that knowledge was power...that the more I knew about what he was doing, the more power I would have over it.
Wow...that was me. I had to sneak around and pry and question, question, question until I thought I knew everything that was going on. I could even talk myself into believing the answers I got. I really thought that the knowledge I had would help me to prevent something terrible from happening. I am grateful that I found out that knowledge was my downfall.
Everyone has shared some good examples of how it works. I hope you keep attending those meetings until you can find some peace whether she is drinking or not.
