Confused, and hurting need your help please. - Al-Anon Family Group

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Confused, and hurting need your help please.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

I certainly understand how you got so involved in this relationship.

One thing you wrote that sent up a huge red flag for me is that he wants to find out if there is anything still there. I take it he means his relationship with his wife.

Like the weather, relationships have seasons. He and his wife might be going through a very long, long winter. Seasons change, so can relationships.

I hope your choices aren't fear-based. Fear can lead you astray.

Take good care, Gail

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Wednesday 17th of October 2012 07:52:11 PM

Icie · Senior Member

Will hun.....I think your Hp would want you to let go & let God. He told you he wants to see if there is any chance of making his marriage work.
You knew he was a married man, play with fire & one gets burnt.
I think you need to put th focus back on you, time for you to set some
boundaries, YOU do not want to hear from him unless he is divorced, his marriage is over & done with, finished. Don't waste your time making him feel good.
In the mean time join some dating clubs on the INTERNET, find guys that are single. He is NOT your last chance.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

thankyou icie your post made me think.

As far as playing with fire, I was married at the beginning too. Honestly we have been friends for so many years, nothing else, did not enter my mind to want to marry him.

We helped each other with using al anon skills with our sick spouses.

I don't feel burned. More shocked than anything. Maybe men and women cannot be just friends?

Its not like I wait for his calls or anything. I had no idea he felt the way he does till the last week.

We have the same moral beliefs and religious ones too. I am not worldly so do not do date sites etc.

But all you said makes me think, which helps me problem solve. I do agree with you about since he is now fac ing his needs and feelings, things have changed for ME.

hmmmmm love,deb

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TrudyS85 · Senior Member

Deblyn, I can tell how confused and hurt you are. I think Icie is right, he either needs to be in his marriage or get out, then you can determine the true nature of your feelings. As a wife whose husband has sought companionship and attention from other women it still sounds like, while nothing physical is going on, that perhaps he is filling emotional needs he can't get from his wife, with you. I too would say to focus back on yourself, and while it may be painful to take a break from him. This will also allow him to focus on what his true feelings/intentions are in regard to you. Keep the faith, it will all work out as is planned by your HP. Hugs and prayers, ts

AStrongerMe · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with the idea that there needs to be boundaries here and it sounds as if you've talked with him like that already and it won't be new. Reinforcing the belief that the marriage vows are sacred, etc.

The ball is in his court, but you need to close your gate and leave a note - metaphor. He is the one playing with fire and if you let him, 3 people stand to get hurt here. He recognizes and has told you he has feelings for you (this was his foot in your gate to see if you'd shut the door). But he is still standing in his court because he hasn't let go. And he's probably not ready to let go.

I think the conversation might be best to explain that you want to honor his decision to try and make his marriage work, and that the best thing you can do as his friend, is to step out of communication with him. If at some point in the future he comes to his own conclusion that his marriage is over, then communication can resume.

I get that missing him will be excruciating but you will need to step out and work on finding a new person to confide that closely with. It won't be the same but you will need to fill the void. Maybe reduce your contact to holiday cards so you keep at least familiar with addresses?

Otherwise, he won't be able to commit to his wife fully while engaging in his feelings for you. Hugs, tough place.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

It sounds as if he lacks important things in his life, and you fulfill some of them, and so it is no wonder he has realized he has such strong feelings for you.

And often we lack important things in our lives, and so it's no wonder we have strong feelings for someone who helps supply them.

The thing is that when someone is married and they have to go outside the marriage to get something that should be inside the marriage, that is an invitation for something messy and tumultuous to happen.

A thing he needs to figure out (not that you need to figure out for him, needless to say) is why he has stayed in his marriage. It sounds as if he is emotionally starving. That is if he is telling the truth. I'm sure we've all known people who talk a huge talk about how their marriage is unsatisfying, when they're half of the situation. But say he is telling the truth. If he is driven to get close to someone else because his marriage is on life support, why does he stay with her to the detriment of his own mental health? Would he be too threatened by being with an emotionally available woman?

I'm afraid that's what it comes down to sometimes. The threat of pain of being with someone who's fully available keeps people in situations in which they can't get that full emotional package. So they're with person A, who's emotionally unavailable, and then they lack support and warmth, and they reach out to person B, who can't be a threat because they're not in a full relationship with her. And if somehow they should end up with person B, it often is a terrible failure -- some other thing comes up (addiction, a different affair, etc.) to keep them from being fully present for person B.

That's just one scenario, but I've seen it happen over and over.

When you're just friends with someone, and not romantic partners, you don't see their full personality. If he were to separate from his wife and be with you, the healthy way to do it would just be to explore being with him as carefully as with any other man you started dating. Because it would be a whole new ballgame. And it would be no wiser to rush in than to rush in with anyone else, history or no history.

He needs to figure out how to live his life so that it satisfies his emotional needs without short-changing anyone else. And you deserve better than to be someone's second choice or to be left hanging on the string while someone else gets his life together. Speaking bluntly -- take what you like and leave the rest!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha (((((debber)))))...Two hours ago I was sharing with a brother in recovery what the first three steps mean to me...as I came to learn them in Al-Anon and now in both programs. In short they mean that when I attempt to exert power where I shouldn't my life gets crazy and unmanageable...mind, body, spirit and emotions...I needed all the time to "get out of the way" and let steps 2 and 3 become my behavior. I meditate on steps 2 and 3 ...24/7..."God is". "I'm not...certainly I'm not God" and that is no longer a thought process for me. It is a behavior of mine. Steps 1,2,3, abbreviated...."I Can't...God can...I'll let Him/Her. I am blessed because that "let Him/Her" led to finding a sponsor with the name Don't...who gave me..."When in doubt...Don't" and "Don't react"!!. The rest of the program gave me "Practice, Practice, Practice"!! Go do the next right thing. In support...(((((hugs))))) smile

Too hard · Senior Member

We know that it is usually very common and part of our human nature to present ourselves very well to those that we feel close to, and are at a distance, even as far away as anther country.

That other friend fills the emotional space that we often feel in our own relationship.

If that friend is the same gender it probably doen't go too far, and as a rule is 'safer'.

So the boundry is generally already there.

However we are only receiving one side of a story whenever we get involved as a third party in another's relationship.

For myself I have been very hurt time and again by the attention my husband gives to other interests in his life, often treats me as the enemy, does not share his thoughts, feelings, or who he sees or what happens when he is out and about in the community.

But you are only hearing one side of our story!

There is always two sides.

Every good wish. T.H.

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Debilyn))))

Good friends are indeed a blessing. This relationship has grown even deeper, rich with a special kind of emotional intimacy that is reserved for a spouse/ girlfriend/ significant other. His being married compromises a solid foundation for a healthy, two peas in a pod potential.

This is a set up for unfavorable dilemmas and a lot of confusion, which you are already starting to experience. Continuing his marriage is his decision...your steady supply of emotional intimacy fills him (and you) up, enables him, and forms unhealthy attachments (between the two of you). It doesn't allow him to focus and resolve the problems within his marriage. (and by this, I mean his relationship with his HP, his coming to terms with his situation and how he decides to best handle things.)

Can you take a step (or several) back, and bring things back to a healthier place, focus on yourself, see if you have the same perspective from a distance and a different angle? (Much easier said than done.) As the other posters said, you deserve a whole man. We don't know what life brings. You have lived through so much and this, too, will pass. Keep turning over to HP and take things ODAT. I hope this helps- please take what you like and leave the rest. You are surrounded by a lot of people and your HP who love and care about you and want you to be happy.

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Deb

I am gonna borrow a version of Tom's favorite ... if your friend stays married, he stays married. If your friend chooses not to stay married, he chooses not to ... what are you gonna do?

I guess I hear a bit of the "if you (fill in the blank) I will stop using" in your description. I would consider the idea of trying to set up a new life before putting the old one to rest as a big red flag. This is a hard one, ask your HP, listen, let go and let HP.

If I were in this situation and wanted to keep my friend I think I would set a boundary of not discussing his dissatisfaction with his marriage until he has decided what is best for him and put it into action. From there I would just use my boundaries I already have in place for potential romantic interests. I know you will work your way through!

Jen

Oksie · Senior Member

I may have a slightly different idea here, but I will put it out there.
I was married and fell in love with a man .. a friend... and we talked on the internet etc.
I have now married that man. I am not saying it is perfect or wonderful or whatever... but it has worked out the best for everyone.

I now have a man who is my friend first and foremost.

In your description, your Universe, or HP has given you a wonderful caring man whom you love in whatever capacity. The Universe has given him a person that he loves.. you... the universe has showed him what it is to not be loved, and showed you what it is to love. You have both been given the opportunity to know what it is like to live with an alcoholic and have difficult relationships.

Why did the universe do that? Would it be to bring you together at an appropriate time? A time when his marriage is no longer one of love or respect and you are ready for a relationship?

Boudaries are important. He is still married. For me, (my ESH), I would maintain the relationship that you have. Telling him that you will promise him nothing further than your close friendship until he has made a decision about his marriage. Why lose what you have been given with each other? If his marriage dissolves.. then see what happens.... if his marriage works, he has you still as his friend.

I personally would not look a gift horse in the mouth. You have a great relationship with a rare gift of true friendship. Hand his marriage over to the universe or HP that brought you together, and see what happens with it. Support him and yourself but allow the fruition to bloom in whatever way it goes.

Give no promises or ideas about his marriage, maintain the support you have been for him. Perhaps the universe put you there to help him get his marriage back on track. I am not sure how that works in an alcoholic relationship with a wife who is not ready to change, but it may be the way of it... I am not the HP to understand the why and wherefores.......

That is my take on it anyway.

Oksie · Senior Member

I will say also... I just read Too Hards response to you and I do have to agree.

When I first met my (now ex) husband, we had a great connection and we talked and talked and we filled each other emotionally.
As soon as we moved in together... that all stopped. He wouldn't tell me any of his thoughts or feelings anymore. He lied and cheated etc.

He got a new girlfriend when we were married and I know he poured his heart out to her and they had/have a very close friendship. That is just the way he rolled.

I would add to TH's statement of two sides to every story... I would say there are three... his, mine and the truth. The truth is not tainted by personal perception.

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Deb, I had once heard that confusion is often because there's a part of reality we just don't want to accept. maybe something to think about.

For me, I'd never be interested in a man who betrayed his wife, sick or otherwise. He's proven he has no boundaries, why would I believe he wouldn't do it again? Observe the actions, words mean nothing, I would NOT want to sweep that red flag under the rug. This is precisely why we work with same sex sponsors in the fellowship, etc. because sharing our journey is a very personal, very intimate thing.

In early recovery, there were men who wanted to be "friends" and it felt so nice at first because I was so starved for attention and validation. My husband had been so absent. I wanted to look at it as a "good" thing, it was "helpful" he was giving me a male perspective. As nice as it was, I knew this wasn't right. and I asked him to stop calling me because I felt I needed to BE the kind of spouse that I really wanted to have. He didn't like it, of course, called me a "goody two shoes" and stormed off. A sick al-anon having a reaction, imagine that.

I very much like the suggestion, do the next right thing. Here is a favorite line of mine in recovery when I didn't know what to do, "Just to the extent that we do as we believe He would have us do, and humbly rely on Him, does HE enable us to match calamity with serenity."

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I wrote him an email and I called him. I could not help it, crying, upset. I just cannot cont this with him. It was fine until he told me he loved me, he said he had a strong attachment to me.

there were other things too. It just thru me over he edge. it was like he killed my friend.

I don't feel very well right now. I read every word you all shared and will read them again.

He is a genuine friend, was my best friend. Over ten years, believe me i know him. He told me he was wrong to share that stuff.

After having my two husbands being torn away from me, I have been very cautious. Now this happens and I feel like great here we go again. He said I promise I will keep emailing you, I am not leaving. I said no, no, no I want you to leave me alone. He said can we just go back, be friends? I told him I cannot go backwards, I don't work that way.

Its hard as he is who I talk to when I have dillemas, need advice. And now he is the one who caused this dilemma. Shared too much, that was not fair.

Anyway thank you. I am not thinking straight and my eyes are all swollen. We do have a good thing, and if he cannot figure that out, and act like a man I think he is, I don't want to hear from him.

I agree too with all you said about he is married, whether it is good or not. If its not, then fix it or leave it alone.

ugh.

so yes focus on me. right now I am finding myself more invisible. just keeping faith in my HP. I know everything will be ok. Not like I haven't lost before. I am a sick puppy......thank you!!!

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Sending you so much love, prayer and support my friend!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

After I calmed down I had a long talk with him. The dipstick went of an antidepressant cold turkey. I TOLD him not to do that.

I know this man, he was so totally out of character. that is what made me so confused.

I don't believe gender has anything to do with us. We have a strong support system for each other. Just like a male friend, brother, sister, mother, I have encouraged him to try different approaches with his wife. But after so man rejections, when she was using, he was so afraid to.

He has very very little experience with females.

As it turned out, I told him to man up and contact her, and talk, say no to everyone else and give her 100% attention. He has to accept his part in this too.As we say, nothing changes if nothing changes.

He sent her a great email and layed it out to her. It was lovely.I was so proud of him.told him this cannot continue he is hurting himself and her by being a chicken.

Anyway he sent me an email letting me know she was on her way to his place he lives where he works 4 days a week!!!! He was so excited she wanted to come to him. No grandkids or anything.

It must be going well as I have not heard a peep. Cannot tell you how happy I am.

He apologized profusely, felt so awful. I again was so proud of him. It was so cool as this was real serious, but becuz of our friendship being real, we got back on track.

I know I am secure enough for my husband to have women friends. When I had one. It takes nothing from me.

My goal has always been to support them. We went thru years of him staying for his kids while she was so horribly sick. I supported him to stay. He had NO idea how to deal with many things with the kids. I was humbled and blessed to have been there.

If we follow boundaries, keep our HP as number one and in the relationship, its very good. But when it got weird i was outa there. thankfully it was a combo of things, and we are fine. Man that hurt.

I believe in the Bible and it is very clear we are very fortunate to have friends. anyway i did learn so much from the comments. Made me really think. hugs,debilyn

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Deb,

Sending much love and support.

Hugs P :)

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

Wow. I had to read it a few times. I spoke at an AA/Al-anon meeting this morning and I shared that this place, MIP, is really my only Al-Anon group. I don't connect with everyone, but that's ok. I have many friends here and most are like family to me. So, I came here to read a few posts and - don't tell anyone because we all know men aren't supposed to cry - there was a lump in my throat. Your share was very intimate.

I wish I had words of wisdom to put everything in perspective for you, but lately I'm more of a student than a teacher.

I do know what I do when I am faced with indecision. I ask God in my morning meditation what I should do. I don't always like the answer He gives me, but I always have the option to accept his direction or to ignore it.

Asking ourselves the Four Absolutes questions can be helpful too. That's some old school AA teachings. I know this is Al-Anon but I'll share them anyway. take what you need and leave the rest. the Absolutes are Honesty, Unselfishness, Love and Purity.

Honesty - is it true or false?

Unselfishness - How will this affect others?

Love - is it ugly or beautiful?

Purity - Is it right or wrong?

One of my sponsors used to like to quote famous people. Calvin Coolidge said, Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer.

Take care, my friend, and remember if you don't like a choice you make, you are always free to choose again.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Wolfie thankyou! I loved what you wrote! I am going to keep those four things close to me!

That was how I was able to come to my conclusion as to where the problem was! I didn't even think about it.

When I thought he was going icky on me I wanted to run!

Thank goodness HP has always been a part or number one in our friendship.

That was so nice of you to share with me! Love,debilyn who still has not heard a peep!!!! Either they killed each other or fell in love again!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.