The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Yes. you are being impatient. and needy. That's how I arrived in al-anon too, so don't feel bad, it's rather normal. Before recovery, I would hinge my happiness on what others were doing or not doing and yes, that gave others tremendous power over me, I was giving them the power to determine my happiness.
This is precisely why I need al-anon - I had to stop doing that. I was programmed to think I had to get the world to somehow meet my needs, I had to have the "perfect partner." I went crazy believing all that crap. I needed "re-programming" in al-anon because I am powerless to change the world to suit me.
Great response by this fellowship, the answer is not what you need to get HIM to do, it's in what YOU need to do. Right now, you have high expectations of him and for me, when I have high expectations of someone, that is a premeditated resentment just waiting to happen. sounds like that is what happened this weekend for you.
He is not Higher power, he is only human (let me add here, I am giving praise and thanksgiving to his Higher power for bringing him to into recovery! Let's not overlook the Good) I totally relate to your life feeling "unmanageable," I used to hide in bed all day too, I wanted to crawl in a hole and cry all day. when I came out, I just wanted everything to be okay. I wished and wished for that to happen....
What I learned is, after trying that for a good, long time, it does not work. That behavior was me living in the problem, my own head. Eventually, I realized, (as much as I hated it! and resented that I had to change!) I realized I had to take all the suggestions of al-anon recovery. when I took all the suggestions of recovery - every one of them - meetings, sponsorship, reading literature, and working those steps, everything began to change, as they promised me it would. It was in that process that I began to feel better. nothing outside of me had changed. I did.
I suspect it will work for you too, my friend, because there is a world-wide fellowship being helped by taking those suggestions.
It is going to be okay, you'll see. Find your meetings and stand in the hope of a new day. Ignore your disease that's telling you to stay in bed and do nothing because if you keep doing what you've been doing, you will keep getting what you've always gotten. I hear you saying, that doesn't feel good. It didn't for me either, we gotta grab onto the solution!
In support of YOU ((big hugs))
-- Edited by glad lee on Tuesday 9th of October 2012 10:33:21 AM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I am so depressed today I just want to go to sleep and wake up to a new life.
My AH has been in rehab since early August and is doing very well. He came home last weekend because he had done his step 5 and they start integrating slowly back into the outside world after that stage. We were both extremely anxious when he came home and we managed to have a conversation about normal relationship things without getting into a fight and, more importantly, knowing that he would have full recall the next day. By the end of the weekend we realized that we as a couple have nothing. All we have is a desire to be together, and two children. In terms of a relationship though, there is nothing. He barely knows me, and cannot cope with anything less than a happy, unflappable wife who places no demands on him whatsoever. He did acknowledge that his emotional development stopped at age 16 when he started numbing his reality, so I am really left with a teenager husband at the end of the day.
I felt drained but positive after the weekend; for the first time ever we had stripped our relationship down to what it really is, and we were both completely honest about it. We want to be together but we have no idea how to get to that point. It is a great place to start and he is in the best place for it. What did bother me though was when I said we need to discuss our resentments and issues, he said that the counsellor told him this weekend was not the right time... when he gets to whatever step, that will be the right time to address these things. OK fine, I accepted it and left it alone. On Sunday when I visited him I was in absolute agony with a shoulder spasm and pinched nerve... the hour-long drive was hell and I was a wreck when I got to him. It was pouring rain so we took the kids to a nearby mall. He was almost totally shut down with me. I had to drag information out of him about what he talks about in meetings and stepwork sessions etc. I eventually asked him if these things were too personal to share with me and he said No, and said nothing more. At some point I brought up the issue of when we get to talk about our resentments etc and he vaguely said that he had a list of amends he needs to make, and he would be discussing it with his counsellor this week hopefully. He was very distant and when I dropped him off at rehab I almost had to nag him for a shoulder rub so that I could drive home.
Am I being impatient here wanting to be able to discuss things, important things, with my husband? Is this normal, being told to wait before talking about things. We are husband and wife, we can surely discuss things when we need to? It really feels like he is more comfortable with his housemates than with me. I understand the bond they have but I feel like he is blocking me out; separating his social life from his married life once again. I don't know what to think or what to do any more.
Kismet, I totally relate to your post. My AH too is like dealing with a child, and you expressed it perfectly, unless I was unfailingly happy, supportive, never demanded anything of him and just took his bad behavior and forgot about it then all hell would break loose. I ended up after 10 years with a husband that didn't work, sat home all day drinking behind my back, chasing women on the internet and being resentful of ME. He ultimately tried to kill himself in a most public way as a personal FU to me. That said, after rehab and where he claims to have changed all I still am seeing is this 'boy man' who wants to gloss over our problems and not be accountable for anything. I am reading CoDependent No More right now, it is life changing, might be a good read for you. All along the way people kept telling me 'you will know when you know', and until I was ready to leave no one was going to tell me different, we are seperated now and I am trying very hard to find the me that I used to be before I met him. You will always find support here, we all understand like no one else does, keep the faith. Hugs and prayers, ts
I don't know if you've found any in person Alanon meetings and are attending you don't mention that in your post. They can really help. I understand what you are looking for because I looked for it myself. Ultimately, my ex only felt pressured. I was persistent with wanted to discuss things he wasn't ready to discuss. Today, I realize that there are differing kinds of emotional unavailability. I learned it was different from saying I'm not available to you right now. If he's newly sober in his first year, he may be trying to keep things simple to stay sober. This does involve patience on the part of family members who want to offer loving support to the alcoholic. It can be a difficult time.
In Alanon we say, I came, I came to, I came to believe. No doubt it's the same for those in AA. We come into these programs realizing (as selfish as this may sound) that we need to be showing up for ourselves, we begin to evolve emotionally, spiritually and also begin to get physically well (it's a process that takes time). Ultimately, we feel strong enough to believe we can make it with the help of a higher power, others who have been where we are and evidence that the fog is lifting and we are beginning to see daylight.
A good Alanon sponsor, meetings, some faith and reading Alanon literature has really seen me through a lot of difficulties. Keep taking care of you. Things can get better with time and experience. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I understand you were in physical pain and that caused yousome irritability...you used the word "nag"...
It seems to me like he is doing great. Be patient with him, please! He's got one shot at this...let him do the steps in his and God's time not your time...he has twice mentioned amends so let him get there on his own...if you have fear and anxiety, get to some Alanon meetings and ask God to help you be patient.
It sounds like there is some great progress here. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. Not everything needs to be discussed, let him be his own human being and have his own private life, and you get to have yours. You can come together in harmony when you spnd time together...appreciate that.
I suggest reading the chapter in AA's Big Book called "To Wives".
God bless you both during this new phase of life. Nothing changes if nothing changes, let the changes come...trust God's plan...let go.
I hope you will find support in your area in the ways of counseling for yourself and/or alanon. These two tools have helped me a great deal. Someone has already said what I have heard .. I'm the cause of his drinking and his issues .. the issue is no I'm not. Contribute .. probably, I'm a professional button pusher, I could probaby find a button or two to push on Mother Teresa :), character defect another story .. lol. However, that doesn't absolve him of the consequences that comes from his choices drunk or sober.
What I hear you saying is that he's afraid and he's sober and now he has to face a whole lot of ugly in terms of remembering the conversation and actions in the mornings. I believe many of our A's remember a whole lot more than they want to own and are terrified of what they don't remember. How do you make amends to someone who loves you for horrific things said as well as deeds done? The guilt has to be horrible.
Two things going on .. he has to face his recovery alone and no it's not going to be a "normal relationship" in terms of husband and wife .. it never was. So you have two people starting from ground zero and that's a whole lot of who the hell are you and who the hell am I going on.
This is exactly why I would so strongly encourage you to embrace your own recovery. It will take the pressure off of both of you. You both need a certain amount of space. You both need time to heal. You both need time to find ways to connect under the new relationship whatever it will be.
Be patient with yourself because trust me in my eyes you have a right to be like WTH just happened, he went to rehab and he was suppose to come back and we were going to live happy ever after .. that truly is not a realistic short term goal. Be patient with him while finding appropriate ways and outlets to release your own frustrations as to whatever is or is not going on. Again .. it was not a normal relationship .. it was a normal alcoholic/addict relationship. That's so not normal in terms of a healthy relationship.
Keep coming back and keep the focus on you, you are a separate person from your relationship.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Dear kismet, I am with pushka, things had to be soooooooooooooooooooooooo bad for me to finally take action and do something different, it's called hitting bottom and it's a great place to be, believe it or not. to hell with what I thought it all had to look like, I was wrong and didn't know it. we have a thinking problem. When I thought my life was falling apart, I later realized that it had to fall apart, so that it could come together.
My suggestion is to pick up the phone and call your local al-anon number to ask if they have meetings with babysitting. You can try that, that is sending an important message out into the universe. I live in a city that has those meetings. I have also lived in a state that did NOT offer babysitting but people brought their kids anyway, some stayed in the room with us and some had kids who were older and they could hang out in a nearby room with their activity stuff and snacks they had brought along. We made it work because we need each other.
If you need an al-anon meeting, get there and grab onto your seat, WHATEVER that looks like. You don't owe anyone an explanation, you own that meeting as much as anyone there.
You are an exquisite human being, watch the universe reach back to you as you reach out for what you need. That's the way it works for me.
-- Edited by glad lee on Tuesday 9th of October 2012 03:41:27 PM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I agree with Workingthroughit - You are in a difficult place with him. If he was single, they would tell him to not get in a relationship for at least a year. Hence, you can pretty much interpret that to mean he's not going to be the best relationship material for about a year.
In rehab and in early sobriety, a person's entire ego is smashed and they are just learning how to function again in the world. My suggestion would be to turn up your alanon program into high gear cuz you are going to want support. We all need support. You are not going to find it from him in the way you want it. He will slowly grow into a more mature and emotionally capable person in his HPs time and only if he sticks with recovery.
Demanding he be a full functioning husband who is sensitive and does what a husband "should" do is going to result in resentment. You are absolutely right that he is now like a big man child with no coping skills. BUT - it's a phase he has to go through to grow up. Let go of expectations and timelines and turn the focus on you and building more support aside from him so that he can focus on the hard work ahead of him.
You don't need to be at the mercy of his slow recovery and his counselors. Go find your own support through alanon. Not all your needs are going to be met by your husband - especially right now.
Not sure why you want to talk about resentments so badly now anyhow. You want to hear "sorry" or to hear him acknowledge how bad he hurt you? He probably already knows that and a "sorry" wont make anything better without him actually living differently for a long period of time. Hence, I would slow your desire to jump into doing a step 8 and 9 with him when he's not there yet and you definitely aren't there yet in alanon. You sound like you are chomping at the bit to talk to him about how angry you are about his alcoholism and how bad he screwed up and how resentful that makes you. Not making too many excuses for him, but I would avoid you and be distant if I knew that was what was waiting for me after rehab also.
You do deserve a more functional husband. You do deserve emotional support. You do deserve ammends... No, this is not fair. It's not fair that you won't get those things right now after all you have been through. I validate all that and so will all your peers in alanon. For now, your support is better off coming from outside sources. He is learning to do the same thing because if you were able to be his chief and only support, he would have stopped drinking a long time ago.
You will likely only be able to come back together in a more healthy way after more detachment and a period of both of you really focusing on self.
Kismet.....We all hear your pain, frustration & you wanting everything to be normal. Listen to what the others have said, give it time, get yourself well, treat yourself well. Just for now turn him over to your HP & try to be just together,when you can & if you & him can handle it. Don't expect too much this first year, keep it simple, talk about the kids, fun things, the weather, if & when he is ready, he will makes amends in his way. In the mean time get yourself to lots of Al Anon meetings. I know I need lots of meetings to stay on track, I cannot do this alone. It was a rude awaking to find out how very sick & crazy my reaction had got. I heard at a open AA meeting sometimes the only way a recovering alcoholic can make amens is by his action. I have learned to pay attention to a persons action & not so much what they say. Actions speak much louder than words
Sending you lots of understanding & support. Keep coming back
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Icie
"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die..."
Thanks for the replies everyone. I just don't know HOW to do all of these things that I should be doing! I am desperate to get to some meetings but I have no-one to watch my kids, so I have to wait until he is out of rehab. I am on a rollercoaster these days... some days I am positive and confident that things will be good but others, like today, are just horrendous. I understand all the theory behind what I need to be doing but I have no idea how to do it! Patience is not my strong suit and things have been unbearably difficult in the time that he has been in rehab. If anything can go wrong, it does, so much so that a friend of mine asked if I have been cursed by someone! The moment I find a scrap of serenity something immediately goes wrong. For example last Monday, after his weekend here, I was feeling wonderful because we had stripped our relationship down and were on an honest footing. I was calm and felt a glimmer of excitement about the future for the first time in months. What happens? The water supply to my house was down for almost 24 hours, the power got faulty and it took the municipality 3 days to sort the issue out. I am usually a glass-half-full kinda gal but I have been beaten down so much lately that I am losing my grip on anything positive. I know that I need counselling but now is not the time.
When IS the right time for me? I am sick to death of waiting and always putting others' needs before mine... it has got me to this broken down place and I am tired of it! All I have been doing of late is looking at myself and analyzing my actions and reactions to everything and I know how much work needs to be done but I can't do it now because I quite literally do not have the time or the resources. I have been under this stress and frustration for so long now that I am ready to snap. I know I am being needy but I am very much in need and no-one around me knows how to help :(
Mark, you have made plenty of sense, thank you.
Thanks again to everyone, you have been very helpful.
Hugs, big ones it is not an easy situation you are in at the moment.
You said that no one around you knows how to help how about can you watch the kids while I go to a meeting? I still say find a meeting that has child care attached to it. It's an hour for just you. My opinion, strictly I started just going to meetings and then kept going and I had every excuse in the book as to why I couldn't go.
No one else is going to know what you need unless you ask for help. For me before coming into the program I absooutely never asked for help .. now .. a little more than before however it's still not easy. It's an exercise in self care. It's so not an easy one for me. Telling someone what I need means they might say no and then what .. why did they say no? What did I do? What should I have done differently? LOL .. I can go down a really weird one way street that is the pits.
When life hits .. it all hits and it's no fun when it seems that it all pours down at one time. That's when I have to take a look at my own attitude because I have had moments where I don't want to be around me based upon my own need for an attitude adjustment. I'm certainly allowed to throw my own pity party .. do I stay stuck there though and get my own personal pity pot (throne) that is now stuck to my butt or do I DO something about taking care of myself? I have to ask myself is what I"m doing working for me? If it's not .. where do I change it .. not a huge change just a little one. Gratitude list is a big one, A - Z will put my mind in a better place and get me off my one way street.
Are you reading alanon lit? It makes a difference, .. How Alanon Works is a good guide for getting started .. meetings and finding a sponsor is HUGE. If nothing changes well .. nothing changes .. and you are doing what you can do, I'm reading you verbalize you want to do more.
I think you asked your own question .. when IS the right time for YOU? You are absolutely the only one who can answer that question.
You are absolutely right by the way, you have been living in an unreasonable situation so long that it seems normal and it is not and your brain is telling you enough is enough .. something has to give. We love you and support you however that work isn't about anyone else here except you.
Keep coming back, big hugs, it gets better it really really does. P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Hi Kismet, I also tried to be one of those wives who tried too hard. I always was attentive and asked about his day and his meetings and how he felt... He told me flat out that he would not discuss his AA meetings with me or talk about anyone who was there. Okay. I was told. I stopped asking. That was another thing that we couldn't talk about. Add that to the hundreds of other topics that we couldn't talk about. That was 12 years ago. Today, I still don't talk about any of the topics that are on the list of unmentionables. That includes his AA meetings. I let him start conversations. If it starts going toward one of the unmentionables, I stop the conversation and steer it in another direction. I don't want to talk about those things with him anymore. I have my AlAnon friends who are my trusted friends now. I can always be accepted for exactly who I am and where I am in life with my AlAnon friends. If I need to talk I go to a meeting. I can talk during a meeting or after a meeting.
I have changed so much over the last 12 years. I was always waiting, waiting, waiting for the ammends. I never have heard an "I'm sorry for what I did for those 20 years that I was drinking. I'm no longer waiting. I mentioned in passing a couple of weeks ago (when he was talking about something we did together) that he didn't remember half of what really happened. Of course he had no response.
The point is exactly what Pushka mentioned. Your relationship right now is still an alcoholic relationship. Will he ever get past the man-child? Maybe. Maybe not. That is totally up to him.
What should you do? Stop waiting. Live your own life. Live and let live. Let life unfold. Get to meetings. I have been to meetings with 4 yr olds and crayons. Also to meetings with pre-teens reading books in the hall and the mom looking out the door and checking on them every 10 minutes. Take care of yourself. You had no control over his drinking and now you have no control over his recovery. You can only take on yourself and your responsibilities to your children. They deserve a healthy mom. AlAnon will help you find who you are. Once you start finding out what taking care of yourself looks like you will feel a lot better about your life. You will smile again. You will laugh again. You will have so much fun with your kids.
The problems of daily life that we all face like bills, car breaking down will continue, yes. Those are the times I hve to make sure to get to meetings. Self-care is very important and meetings are a huge part of that.
If you think really hard is there any way you couldhandle babysitting arrangements? Could you ask a friend or relative (who you won't feel like you owe anything back to) to watch them? Could you call the local high school and find a very inexpensivee babysitter? COuld you find an Alanon meeting with babysitting?
If you want it badly enough, you will get there. Millions of us ahve done it for decades.
You guys are so right, I have fallen down a rabbit hole the last few weeks. Thanks for the virtual kick :) Meetings are not an option until my AH gets back from rehab so I will make a plan to get to the nearest office and get some literature, I have been craving it lately.
I am certainly an over extender I have put my health on the line many a time for other people. These days I tend to hold back more. I certainly know how it is to people please give more than I have and then be resentful.
Ideally in a relationship we may get to talk out our resentments. Some of us have to go another route with them. I have an old friend with whom I had an incredible row many years ago. There was a lot leading up to that row and we have never spoken since but she has certainly spoken often and forcefully with practically everyone I know about my side of things. I used to deeply resent that and I have to say the anger smouldered for a long long time. This summer I learned she is dying of cancer. I can say that I note that really nothing has changed about here, she still believes she is above reproach. At the same time she is dying of cancer and I had to look at what was the cost benefit of my being angry at her for being so obstinate and never being able to see anything but she is completely above reproach. I had to talk it out with a sponsor. I found someone who I could talk to about it without judgment and with candor. i can't say I am full of love and understanding for my former friend (I have boundaries these days) but I know that I no longer feel guilty.
I really did believe for most of my life that anyone who I had problems with it was all due to their lack of understanding, mean ness and inability to commit. Now I can see things very differently but I am not in a place where I let that go or can work them all through in a dizzying fashion.
Boundaries are so critical for me. If someone is annoying me I have to dial back rather than dial forward and obsess about them not noticing me. Sometimes I really have to cool off for a long time before I can get to a place of being able to be clear about an issue. I used to beg, demand, needle, manipulate, convince and be obsessed with what other people needed to "do" for me. That included most of my therapists and certainly anyone who cared to sponsor me! I used to have huge resentments about when a sponsor was unavailable when I needed them (how dare they!). I know for me all these charactor traits led me to people who were immature, demanding and equally resentful. Now I spend less time in that milieu. I know full well how it is to be very dependent on someone who is a substance abuser. I also know how hard it is to let go and put the focus on myself when they are acting out in every fashion and at the same time being incredibly demanding.
We can let go anytime, we can get back up anytime and we can learn where we end and others begin on a day to day basis.
