The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I just had this realization today that a friend who I have had for 10 years is a shoulda coulda woulda on me all the time. If I give him the opportunity he will decide to take charge of my life in an instant. I once lived in the same house with him and his controlling was incredible and he could be very very nasty if he didn't get to have total control.
I have put a lot of boundaries in the relationship. He is still someone who despite his controlling I can count on in any emergency (and those kind of people do not come along too often). I finally realized today that one of the reasons I put up with shoulda coulda woulda (which is his hallmark) was that I felt like that about myself. I felt I shoulda, coulda woulda be in a much much better place than I am. When in fact these days I am happier than I have ever been and most of all accepting of my life. Certainly there are areas of my life that need a lot of improvement but acceptance is a huge thing for me. No coulda woulda shoulda would get me here. I can't control his image of me at all but I can control my own image and I don't have to be captive to his controlling (which I have a lot of insight about now). My image of myself is no longer all tied up in what I mean to certain people and how that hurts me because it doesn't hurt me anymore because I have boundaries and the ability to reflect.
I know when I was in a relationship with the ex A and with other people I have dated I saw the fact the relationship didn't work as something reflecting on me. In fact it was a learning experience. Obviously the ex A being a 7 year relationship was a long experience but it was nevertheless an experience I gained a lot from eventually.
I know what it is to feel absolutely hopeless about a relationship, to really wish someone around me would change. I know how frustrating and perplexing that is and how it seems like you put in a huge amount of effort for little return. I think these days I am pretty clear on where my relationships are and most of all I don't "need" one so desperately. I could certainly do with more but given my history of boundarylessness maybe its a good thing not to have a surfeit of relationships to extricate myself from.
For me the relationship with the ex A became one where I constantly questioned myself about was I getting my needs met. I constantly was aware that I was feeling a huge defecit in the relationship and that happened really within a few months. Rather than deterring me that felt incredibly familiar to me. I felt at home with that less than, crumbs of attention and not being acknowledged. I felt like that was about it and to risk anything by trying for me was foolhardy. I felt if I tried hard enough that I could persuade the ex A to be otherwise. Really I was attempting to get him back to the place of even more denial when I met him. He had several phases and levels of denial and he could shift from one to another. What I craved from him was not a healthy relationsihp but one based on incredible denial.
These days I do have an idea of what's non negotiable in a relationship. I try them out on my roommate about the limits I want and the preference. I try respecting where someone is coming from rather than remaking them and finding a way to fit them into some mould I think they should be in.
I know for me when I was in that place of really being aware that the relationship I was in wasn't worth the huge effort I put into it was a turning point. Of course it just felt painful at the time and I blamed myself entirely. At the same time that was all I knew how to do. My relationships in al anon have helped me get to a place where I see other people detaching and practising self preservation so I am willing to give that a try rather than think that is not something I can cope with.
Maresie.
-- Edited by orchidlover on Friday 5th of October 2012 02:30:57 PM
This is a great thread and subject. I get to run the posts thru the filter of my recovery...what it was like, what I learned and how it is now. I learned some really rocket science stuff in the program all of which was valueable because I used it to change on one thing...me and how I respond and relate and choose my life. I learned to stop judging others and myself as a major behavior and to substitute the use of acceptance, mercy and forgiveness amongst other tools. I learned to love unconditionally and not need exclusively. That was a major change...earthshaking on all levels. I learned to kill my expectation of people, places and things and to enjoy completely when my wants and needs were spontaneously fulfilled. I just love the "pleasant surprises" and now when I am given to without expectations the pleasant surprises are spiritual gold. My expectations are on myself and I'm not hard on myself or judgemental, or condeming or self righteous. Today during the warm clear day I made the decision to buy a stranger guy a Diet Pepsi just because he was standing out in it and just might like one. I like Diet Pepsi on days like this and wanted to do unto another that way. When I offered it later on he refused it graciously...no problem and I offered it later to one of his co-workers who also refused it graciously...still no problem there never was an expectation that anyone would say yes. I got to do who it is that I am...the practice of my program and then go on in my life. I know for me that the lesson of accepting and enjoying what is rather than feeling empty from what isn't yet makes up alot of elbow room when I am out there amonst "them". As I came home from work and passed thru the center of town I noticed that they haven't yet erected that statue of and to Jerry F. LOL won't even continue with this thought line...don't know how to now.
I know how to get out of crummy days and that is to look for and enjoy the good stuff. This morning I told a guest at the hotel that her "expressive" young daughter just made my morning yesterday morning as she openly and beautifully acted out how the garden I work in made her feel. She delighted me and HP in her own delight with her free spirit and it was worth gratitude. There is so much more to my life than what is right in front of my nose. Taking a few steps back the frame comes off of the picture and I can see more and more clearer.
Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Friday 5th of October 2012 06:27:32 PM
RAH will be 2 years sober next month. I honestly can't believe 2 years have gone by. I truly respect and admire the work he has done to achieve this. But, in some ways it is almost harder than when he was actively drinking. At least then, he and I both had an excuse as to why he would behave so badly much of the time. Now, the excuse is gone but so much of the harmful behavior is still there.
For a few months, I was doing well just detaching from these behaviors and not taking it personally. Then I started to really think about what I need in the relationship. And as much as it hurts, I realize that he is unwilling or incapable of giving me what I need. He keeps showing me he can't be someone who accepts me as a person separate from him, who has different ideas, opinions and needs. So, for a few weeks now I have been pleasant, but very unengaged from the relationship. I'm not trying to fix everything. I'm not trying to make it a wonderful marriage for him. I'm not trying to make him "see" what I need, or expecting him to deliver. I am not trying to make sure all of his needs are met. And it feels both liberating and really crappy at the same time. I think because it feels like I'm giving up. I realize I can't, by myself, make this work for the both of us anymore. Somethings gotta change, and the only thing I can change is me.
The meeting I went to yesterday was about making amends to ourselves. Ouch, that's a big one. I guess when I think about making amends, it's not just about saying I'm sorry or feeling sorry, but also changing my behavior so that it doesn't happen again. When I apply that to myself, I feel compelled to protect myself (emotionally)-something I didn't do before. I can't change how RAH chooses to behave, but I don't have to be the recipient of the behavior if I don't allow myself to be. I can accept the way it is, and I can choose to remove myself from it.
We have an appointment with a marriage counselor on Monday and I'm not even sure I want to go--how do I go meet with someone to start working on our marriage when I feel absolutely no ambition to do that? How can I be "detached" and "engaged" at the same time? When I think about it, opening up and being vulnerable just feels like putting myself back in the line of fire. Something I am unwilling to do right now.
I realize as I type this that I really need to turn all this over to HP, don't I? This is way more than I can handle alone. Going to go do some reading on the first 3 steps...
Thank-you all for being here and for letting me vent!
Oh my! I can totally relate. I think that's why I'm having trouble with the marriage therapist we're with now. He put the burden on ME to give it 90 days and wants us to work on 'validation' and, like you, I am trying to detach but I also need to be engaged in this marriage therapy. Not sure why the therapist didn't require AH to go to AA on a regular basis, but that's a whole different story.
Last night at my Al Anon meeting a friend came in crying and shared how frustrated she is with her husband. He is 25 years sober and she was still having issues with him and his selfishness. How it's all about him and how he doesn't help her parent or see the problems they're having with their son. It made me realize that even if they get sober and stay sober, they still have a lot of work to do and a commitment to getting healthy emotionally will be a lifelong commitment. Do I have the guts to stay married to an egotistical, selfish, sarcastic, immature, racist, legalistic, narcissistic man? I'm not sure it's worth it at this point but I'm putting one foot in front of the other right now. Neither one of us is getting our needs met, so I figure I can at least try and see what I learn about myself in the process. Maybe it will help me get over the fear of changing, maybe it will help me find my own bottom?
I put all my prayers in a God box. I can't tell you how many slips of paper have the words 'my marriage' written on them, LOL! Yes, turn it over to your Higher Power and be open to what you hear in your heart and be open to the wisdom that your own intuition is sharing with you.
I can relate and I read this, think of my exH and hear the saying "if someone shows us who they are, believe them". Ironically me exH who was a dry drunk for our 15 year marriage was a bear to live with, often times so controlling, mean and abusive I thought of him as a "monster". Then we divorce, separate and the courts insisted he get joint custody and suddenly the counselors and mediators are hearing about his now drunk induced anger management issues.
I would sit in coparenting counseling sessions hearing "you just need to stop drinking since you're such a jerk when you drink" and he would eat it up while I sat there going "um no, he's been this way for nearly 20 years, what are you talking about? The booze makes it worse but he's not nice when he's sober". No one would listen to me!
He's been getting better lately but I suspect he's on some medication because the transformation was nearly overnight and astonishing. I don't ask, don't question, I always accept anything positive from my exH as a gift.
Thank-you so much for your replies. It's good to know I'm not alone .
Also gives me some to think about. I think it comes down to shedding the denial of how things really are. And giving up the idea that my RAH will become this person I'd like him to be and the idea of how I'd like my marriage to be. It is what it is...period. Acceptance, and a little grieving. Now I get to decide if I can live with it or not and who I want to be in the midst of it all.
