The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
The only thing I wanted was for him to honestly work at his sobriety. I wanted him to stop the drinking. For me, it was never a marriage problem, you have to have two participating people in the marriage to have a marriage problem. The drinking had to go if we wanted to do that.
You said its not "even the drinking, its the emotional abuse." You dont think his abuse and crazy behaviors stems from his drinking.?
I decided I wanted to live my life without alcohol in it, thats why we are divorced. Doesnt mean I loved him any less, just loved myself more.
Hugs, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Friday 24th of August 2012 11:38:59 AM
I told my STBX that I had a problem with his drinking and that it was causing me to disengage from our marriage. When he asked what it would take for me to stay, I told him that he would need to make an honest effort to work on his sobriety. I also told him that I would do anything that he needed for me to support him in that effort.
After thinking about what I said, a week later he told me that, since he didn't have a drinking problem, he was not going to work on stopping it. Mind you, he was on probation for a DUI, had been hospitalized less than a year before for untreated diabetes exacerbated by his alcohol consumption and was close to losing his self-owned business (which he ended up losing a few months after we separated).
It is still painful for me to think about him choosing alcohol over our 30 year marriage, but as my therapist and sponsor both have reminded me, he didn't choose alcohol over you- the disease did that. Sending you lots of support right now as you make some tough choices.
As for me, I am healing and recovering, and I know that I will be fine. Serenity is mine if I seek it.
-- Edited by Green Eyes on Friday 24th of August 2012 11:47:22 AM
-- Edited by Green Eyes on Friday 24th of August 2012 11:47:44 AM
I started attending Al-Anon in October of last year. I had been through a nightmare of a summer. I was screamed at for stupid stuff. I have never been so lost, scared, or miserable.
I hated the pot smoking. I hated the drinking because my AH turned into a monster more often then not. I have never in my life been in such a situation. Sure I dated a lot of A's but I had married this one and it was bad.
Just before Al-Anon he and my dog had a fight. Neither won it. This was the first time I stood up to him. I told him that we could get a trainer and we could work on this but that if he ever laid a hand on my dog again then I was out. I was serious. He was livid at me for choosing a dog over him. I had been clear that the dog was part of the package of me. I refused to allow my animal to be harmed ever again. I started packing my suitcase. He apologized. We brought a trainer in.
Shortly after that I found this board. Then about 2 weeks after that I attended my first Al-Anon meeting. The behavior was still going on. I was on egg shells when he drank. He was not a nice person at all. I was learning and growing with my program but it did not change the reality of my home life.
The situation with my dog did improve. There was a night where we were both in the Kitchen and Jack did something and he reacted and Jack snapped at him. So he gets all up in arms. I looked at him after his threat to call animal control and told him you do that and I will call and report you for having pot in this house.
The time frame is now fuzzy for me but the pot was eventually removed from the house towards the end of January or sometime in February. That for me was a reason I was going to leave, because I abhorred having it in our house. It's illegal, his daughter is with us every weekend, I was DONE with it.
I left once the first weekend in February but went back after a night because he promised to do better and promised that he would change, blah, blah, blah. The promises sounded good.
We had established a very unhealthy pattern of he could be good for about 2 weeks and then another fight would happen. In December there was a night when he wouldn't let me leave. I posted here after that happened. I formed a plan, if it ever happened again I was calling the police.
February turned into March and it wasn't changing. It would get better for a little while but then something else would happen. If nothing changes, nothing changes. I had been married 9 months and it had been the most miserable time in my life. We had a fight on a Monday night and it escalated to the point where I picked up the dog and grabbed my purse. I had my phone in my hand. He was blocking me and I was dialing 911. I was shaking. He moved so I could leave.
I drove to my parents that night. I was so incredibly furious and the biggest part was just the complete disregard for me. He was treating me horribly. No respect for me as a person. He had not physically hurt me but the verbal garbage was ridiculous. I honestly credit my consistent reading of Al-Anon lit, being here on this board, and going to my meeting consistently with why I was able to recognize what was going on and why I was able to leave when I did. It's easy to not realize what's going on because you become so lost in the verbal garbage that you quit questioning the validity and start thinking that it's some twisted normal.
I did go back the following day. He did apologize. But I couldn't shake it. This was the most volatile night since the summer and while I had seen some changes and some improvement it was not nearly enough for me to want to continue on with our marriage.
I moved out that following Sunday. I planned to leave for good. I drove to my parents. However, I knew it wasn't time for me to leave. This is something that I again credit my reading/being on this board/and attending my meeting for being able to distinguish what was right for me. My parents wanted me to take at least 4 weeks but I decided on 2. Becuase that was usually the time frame from blow up to blow up with my husband and I wanted to break that pattern.
He promised to quit drinking. I didn't ask for that. I knew that this is a disease. I knew that unless he found his own recovery he will not be able to stop. What I required was the he treat me with the dignity and respect that I deserve and that I try and treat him with. He did quit drinking for maybe a few days. However, that wasn't a requirement for my return. This was what I determined was right for me.
I had backup plans and places to go. I returned after 2 weeks. This was our turning point.
He still drinks. Until he finds recovery he will.
However, he treats me with dignity and respect. When he doesn't, which still does occasionally happen, it's not like what it used to be. I've made it very clear what my boundaries are. For whatever reason even though he still drinks he is able to make the choice of how he treats me. We agreed that I should never feel that I need to leave in order to be safe. If I feel that way then he is the one who needs to leave.
We still have times but because of the major changes and the continuing improvements I stay. I stay in my reading, and in my meeting and when work isn't crazy I read here.
I acknowledge that this is a disease. I acknowledge that everyone is different. What is right for one is not right for someone else which is why we only share ESH. I'm sharing mine with you. Please take what you like and leave the rest.
Thank you for letting me share.
PS: This year he didn't forget my birthday. This year not everything is being turned around on my as my fault. This summer has been amazing. The only thing I required, is that he treats me with respect.
-- Edited by Jackie11 on Friday 24th of August 2012 02:59:10 PM
AH wants to know, from me, how much he is going to have to change for me to continue working on repairing our marriage. I honestly don't have an answer for him so I guess I better brainstorm exactly what I want. For now, I know that he is frustrated that he can't drink in our state, at least that's how he puts it. That's why he's been traveling every week this past month, it gives him a chance to drink I guess. I haven't come right out and asked him, but I assume he still wants to drink and keep his family intact at the same time, which is something I'm not sure I am willing to accept at this point.
So, if it were you, what would you expect to change in your A for you to really put the effort in and for you to be willing to move forward? I know many of you are in different places(and may be committed to staying in the relationship no matter what) but for me, I am at the point where I am very close to separation or divorce. And, it's not even the drinking, it's the emotional abuse, the driving on a restricted license while renting cars out of state, and the fact that I think we're on very different paths spiritually. Also, it's about what kind of example he's setting for our son and the fact that my son doesn't trust his father right now. All those things make life difficult with my AH, but I still haven't reached the point where I feel he needs to move out ASAP. I am willing to go to marriage counseling as is he, but he balked at my request to go to individual counseling and AA. So, I'm trying to decide what is important to me and what I really want in a marriage. I'm only 42 and I don't want to live the next 30 or 40 years like this, so I have to decide HOW I want to live. What are your thoughts?
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You can tell him all the positive things about being sober or even threaten divorce/separation etc. but these things won't matter to the addict. The addict has to want to be sober/clean for themselves and that only comes with doing work and deciding they want to change. Addiction is a very selfish. The best thing is to decide what you want IMO. Then make those things happen, if you want him to get clean/sober tell him, let him make the choice but be very clear about your bottom line if he decides that he does not want to live sober. The key is to stick to this bottom line. I am a firm believer in tough love and people are not stupid, and are responsible for their own actions and consequences. I have done this before as scary as it was after a 8 year relationship with an addict. It worked out for the better for myself but I also prepared myself to be a single parent and a single person for the rest of my life.
Wow! That is a tough one. I too am 44 and am trying to figure this all out as I don't want to live the next 30 years this way either. I too am going thru a similar time in my life with my AH. For me it will down to how I am being treated. If he is treating me well and his alcoholism isn't affecting the quality of my life I would think that would be okay/good. That said, if the drinking makes them mean, hostile, aggressive them it is kind of a two-fer deal in that they can't give you what you want on the one hand and get what they want (a drink) on the other. I think defining things by whether they drink or not isn't necessarily going to work, for many of them even when they are 'sober' their destructive personality traits still invade our lives. That's why I think we need to focus on how they are treating us vs. whether they are drinking. YOu can use this analogy for many things, if they spend all your money on drink and you have no money left over for food, it isn't so much about the drinking as it is about the consequence. I hope I'm making sense. Let me just say I know how hard this is, you too probably like me really do love your AH, it is unfortunate their drinking is making life with them very very hard. I was talking with a friend the other day and we zeroed in on my circumstance as this: will he hit the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired and change his ways OR will I just finally get fed up and leave. Who will win that foot race will determine the outcome of my marriage, and to be honest I don't know which one of us will cross that finish line first.
You are in my prayers, keep us posted, stay strong, you are not alone! ts
Bettina, to answer your question. NO, the verbal abuse, anxiety related anger problems, and emotional exploitation have been there since we were married. He was dry for 15 years and he thinks that's enough to 'get sober'. He has no interest in AA. I guess the emotional abuse was there because he was already an alcoholic when I met him but was just too naive and young to realize it at the time. He quit drinking because he knew it was a problem for HIM way back when and I supported his decision. Maybe I didn't realize how bad it was 20 years ago? Honestly, he's actually really nice when he drinks, but he makes stupid decisions like driving and acting like a fool that get him into trouble. He's got many deep seated issues but they all come out when he's stone cold sober.
Sounds like my ex, sweet (sometimes sickingly so) drunk, mean as can be sober.
How can you dictate to him his own change? That's an odd request and sounds like a set up. Like "you tell me to do this and then when it doesn't work I can blame it on you".
I apologize, I have a really smart-a** mentality sometimes and my first thought reading it was 'tell him 50 cents'.
My response I suppose would be (were I asked) "The change you make should be your own, to make yourself happy, because I can't promise you there is any one specific thing that will make me want to stay".
Sort of along the lines of "better find your own way just in case". Because the truth is, until my ex finds his happiness, he will always be miserable to be around. At least thats the way I see it.
It turns out that he is threatened by my going to Al Anon, going to therapy, and going back to church. He doesn't seem to like the fact that I might get some 'validation' for my emotions and feelings. It's almost like he wants me to stay down in the pit with him. He admits that our relationship is dysfunctional but also wants to know why I'm so bent on trying to save our relationship when it's obvious we're in a hole that we can't climb out of.
I honestly don't know where counseling is going to go for us at this point. He keeps whining about sex and how I don't like it or don't want it with him and he refuses to see that a lot of the problem is that he's just not likeable and that his attitudes and negativity make it difficult to want sex. Granted I have issues I have to deal with, but he contributes to them by being untrustworthy, etc.
UGH! We meet with the marriage counselor on Tuesday, that will be interesting.
My experience with my now xAH was that stopping drinking was not enough. He was sober for7 months before I finally left.I found that I didn't like him drunk, and when he got sober, I still didn't like him. He thought ALL he had to do was stop dirnking...he seemed surprised when his alcohol counselor told him that was only step 1 in repairing all the damage. He also refused to go to individual counseling..that meant HE had to take responsibility. He did go to AA, but would, at times, come home drunk...
There was no hope for our marriage if he thought just stopping drinking would get us on the track to recovery for our marriage...and he was unwilling to do anything else....it actually made my decision to leave pretty easy, I made the choice to take back my own life....and it has been good...
For me, it was an out of the blue, 'xxxx' what did you do thing that was a bottom for my AH. and he said from the beginning of his "rock bottom" that he wanted to get sober and would do whatever i wanted him to do to keep us together. For me now, even then ( and it happened in july of 09) that means no drinking at all. and lots and lots of couples therapy. i needed to understand that this person who i never in a million years thought would do the things he did to me and our marriage had a prob. a prob that literally changed his brain. sometimes i still dont get it. and its been years. but every day we go to bed and he spent that day sober is him proving to me he wanted to change for him. for me. for us. and for our family. i dont know if it was the right thing to do or not. i was devastated when the junk hit the fan. and we were very open and honest about what we needed to heal. for me i needed him to know if he had any hopes of me every forgiving and healing and moving forward that he needed to understand he can not drink. he needed to do what he needed to in order to stay sober. and see "triggers" before they got to him and deal with it. i might be in a diff situation because my ah was willing to do ANYTHING to overcome it. but i swore by it then and 3+ yrs later still do. here's my "plan". honesty, honesty, therapy, honesty, and therapy..then when you think to yourself "wow we've come along ways.." sched more therapy!
-- Edited by canadianguy on Thursday 30th of August 2012 05:47:27 PM
reading back..i wonder how many ppl have sig. others that have drinking probs and the sex thing comes up. that use to come up alot before we hit "the" poop or get off the pot point...could it be a ligit "issue" to them? or do they just not see it the way the other does like ilovedogs said...hmm. that makes me wonder cause when my point came there were sex issues also.
-- Edited by gdmbm76 on Saturday 25th of August 2012 11:49:55 PM
Ilovedogs...was just reading some of your comments to others....we have tons in common. Can we or have private messaged...i feek like im rdg my story when I read things you have written.
Marriage to alc is simply the gardest, most painful thing ive ever exoerienced....and that includes child birth...at least that was folliwed by pure joy. Joy is sonething im not sure alc marriages ever experience.
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When all else fails...there is Faith, Hope and Prayer.
