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My heart is reaching out to you as you keep us updated on your situation. My experience is very similar. My AH of 28 years got a DUI and then was hospitalized for untreated diabetes that was exacerbated by his binge drinking. He was also close to losing his business (he owned a bar and grill) and was behind, unbeknown to me, on the mortgage of our home of 23 years. Here's what I did:
Our three grown daughters and I tried a "mini-intervention" like you did. And he responded the same way that your AH did. He also told us that he did not have a drinking problem. When I came home to an eviction notice on our door with 5 days to vacate our home, I finally realized that I had no choice but to leave and to take care of myself. About three years prior, when I started to see red flags going up, I opened by own checking account (with my mom added to the account), I applied for, and received, my own credit card, and I started my own savings account. So, when I finally decided that I had done everything I could do to save our marriage, I moved into a small apartment (this was three days after deciding to leave) close to my place of employment. He was shocked that I would leave him and that I had a plan.
Soon after I left we tried going to a marriage counselor, who ended up sharing with my AH that he needed individual counseling before we could work any further on couple's counseling. My AH refused and informed the counselor that he would go to counseling as a couple, since I was the one with the problems, not him. After that, I gave it one more try. I told him that we could start all over: I would let him move in with me IF he stopped drinking, got help and sold his business. Not surprisingly, he refused.
One year after separating. I asked him for legal separation so that I could protect myself financially. He said it was either "stay together or get a divorce- nothing in between." So I filed for divorce and it should be final this fall. He's still in the house (he filed a lawsuit against the mortgage company), lost his business and is still drinking. I'm sad that our marriage is over, but I know that I did the right thing. I go to my Al-Anon meetings every week (I've been going for 3 1/2 years), I have a sponsor, I have given my HP control over my life and have put my AH in my HP's hands. This is my journey- I hope that it helps to share it with you as you face some tough decisions yourself. Sending you lots of support right now. My two favorite Al-Anon slogans are, "Let Go and Let God" and "One Day at a Time." I also have learned that "when nothing happens, nothing happens."
-- Edited by Green Eyes on Sunday 12th of August 2012 11:21:33 PM
I've been gone from home for a week. My relapsing AH has made many calls asking me to come over, come home, and call him back. I haven't answered his calls or returned his messages. In those messages his moods seem to be all over the place. I had made the decision that I wasn't going to talk to him because he twists things that I say and doesn't hear a word but our anniversary was on Wednesday so I wrote out my feelings in an inspirational card so that he would have them in writing. I told him that I would do anything in the world to help him but I couldn't do it for him and that I would not live with an alcoholic any longer. Asked him to put aside worries about his job and money ir anything else for now and ONLY concentrate on his life and getting better. I got nowhere.
This weekend, I needed to get with him about paying some bills. I am starting to try to separate myself from him financially because I KNOW he is going to lose his job. He has a job with great responsibility at a bank and they were very understanding when he went into rehab back in March but this week he was called in regarding an incident with someone in one of his business council meetings. His temper is out of control and he flies into a rage at the slighest thing so I'm afraid to know exactly what happened but the rage is coming outside of the house now.
By the time I went to pick up the checkbook to pay off our credit cards and cut them up together as we had discussed an hour earlier, he had changed his mind and told me that since I couldn't "get my fat ass over to grace me with his presence at any other time this past week that I could forget about getting the checkbook." I do fear him and he sounded very angry, so I went and picked up our 2 sons (23 & 25).
We decided to have a "mini intervention" with him. We decided to broach it in terms of needing to go the the hospital because we believed he was in a deep depression and was trying to self medicate with alcohol. We did that because when rehab or alcohol is mentioned, he gets very defensive and shuts down. He became very emotional and we were reaching him. He said that he was depressed and wanted his family back. He was SO close to agreeing but he got up to get a drink of water and when he came back, he said, "I've made a decision and it's no." So we all stood up to leave. and as were were walking out, he said, "Just leave me alone." We all said, you got it!
I am okay with this emotionally at the moment as I truly feel that we have done all we can do but I have some practical ?'s and thought maybe those of you who have been here before could help me. The house is in both of our names. I refuse to live in that environment and am afraid to go in alone when he is there. I wonder if I should continue to put my paycheck into our account and help to keep the mortgage current even though I know that we won't be able to keep it up when he loses his job. He won't put the house on the market now and if he is in it much longer alone, it is going to go downhill quickly. Even yesterday, the pool was becoming overgrown with algae. I am staying with my parents and can't afford to get my own place if I am also paying the mortgage.
He is truly out of control, irresponsible, and unable or unwilling to take care of things consistently. How do you deal with someone regarding serious, financial decisions when they are incompetent from alcohol? I researched how to have him committed today.
ANY advice, no matter how insignificant would be appreciated.
All of your posts have been so helpful to me this week although I haven't posted much, I have been reading.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G Llewellyn
I don't think you can have him committed unless he is imminently in danger of killing himself. That means like 1 more drink from death or he is making suicidal statements, has a plan, and a method for doing it. Hence, unlikely that committment will happen. He is going to likely take the slow progression there on his own through angry outbursts. If he deteriorates worse and has drunken rages in public, he will get committed that way or sent to jail. Three things stop people from hitting bottom faster: Youth, health, wealth - as those 3 things fade further and further, the bottom gets more intense.
I can't tell you what to do about separating things other than that you will take a hit - but one that is worth it because you are being true to yourself. When I left my Ex-A, I would have been happier living in a van. I lived with a friend for 1 month, took some big financial losses, but it was worth it. I stopped paying my half the rent (didn't co-own a house thankfully). He bitched at me for that but oh well...I wasn't living there and practically speaking, I HAD to save up to pay my own rent. No other choice. My ex had been told and he had his own set of choices too. Plenty of folks have to downsize due to divorce, economy, job loss, all the above....
Most of all, I just pray you can detach to the point of no longer taking psychological, emotional, and verbal abuse. Trust in your HP and you will figure out a way to make ends meet financially. Seems like a mountain now, but it will become clear little by little. An alanon sponsor might help with that if you find one that has been through a more similar situation. I am thinking Bettina, Glad Lee, Pushka, Breaking Free, Orchid Lover (Marisee), Jerry, Tom....all of them will be much better resources with regard to splitting up from a legal union.
If I could do it over there are definitely things I would change in the way I handled finances with an active/relapsing A. Or actually with anyone now. I would maintain my own accounts with no shared access. There are a couple reasons for this, one is, many people end up with no credit due to no financial activity in thier own name and the other is the liability for the other person's spending and financial actions. At the time of my seperation from my exAH (which dragged out for more than 2 years, loss of his job, home foreclosure and multiple unknown to me debts) I wish I had legally seperated thru the courts earlier with specific legally set financial responsibilities. I would have still taken a hit on finances and my credit but it could have been better than what the mess I was left with. I would have had protection from some of his spending especially the middle part when credit was still good enough to get more credit. Alot of those legalities vary state to state. Talking to a lawyer or legal aid for the specifics in your area would be of benefit to know your options and potential ways to protect your assets and take care of you.
((((WOMFI))))... yeppers been there done that a coupe of times in fact...I needed re-inforcement I guess so yeah!! One thing you can do with the financial thingy is mediation...do it with the lenders or a lawyer or what ever. The outcome will be an agreed upon one and should be mutually beneficial.
One of the things I did because my alcoholic/addict use to raid the cash box without telling me and the bank wouldn't either was to post in the local news paper three times that I would no longer be responsible for ________(my exspouses name) debts and that notice is enough to have them stop coming after me. When the debtors called me anyway I told them to go after the security for the bill...car, lenses, stuff she charged on an account my name was attached to. They stopped coming after me.
Money is an issue...security is important...take care of yourself legally and honestly. ((((hugs))))
Also, just realized my quote should say if I couldn't get my fat ass over to grace HIM with MY presence. There, now it makes a little more sense and furthermore he didn't hurt my feelings with this because my ass is not fat. In fact, I could stand being a little more "bootylicious". Now if he had said something about getting my fat stomach over, that would've hurt.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G Llewellyn
WornOut, I'd consult a good lawyer who has experience with this kind of situation. The laws differ in different places and you'll need a lawyer to advise you on the exact steps to separate your assets and protect your finances. An alcoholic can bring an enormous amount of chaos in his wake. We need professionals with solid knowledge on our side. I hope you'll talk to someone and protect yourself. Hugs.
It is discouraging JJ - but I can tell you that it's an illusion the alcoholic is choosing. They think they can have alcohol PLUS everything else and literally rationalize losing family jobs health..... They don't live in reality. There is an element of choice whether or not to be in recovery but it's small and the alcoholic/addict mind is really distorted so it's not as much a choice as you might paint it out to be. What is obvious to us, is not to them.
I took a big hit financially when I divorced my A. We filed bankruptcy...and decided to keep the house, which I can barely pay for. Technically his name is still on the mortgage, but the court awarded the house to me in the divorce proceedings.
It's a long road...but one I couldn't have walked without the help of a lawyer. There is ALOT to this financial stuff..and as you know As are very unpredictable -- my A pulled stuff in the divorce I never would have predicted (like demanding alimony).
Some of the things my lawyer said to me seemed harsh at the time, but he was SO right. I tended to be naive. Protect yourself...and know your rights so you can make informed decisisions. I paid $4500 for a lawyer, but I'm sure it saved me SO much more.(I had to borrow the money from my folks -- who needs pride anyway?)
What everyone has said about finding out what your rights are is soooo important. The other thing is if you choose to see an atty you don't have to choose the first one you go to .. pick around and see who will best fit you. I have found in my experience i needed to feel that I could trust my atty and know I could tell him anything and he wouldn't look at me like I've grown three heads. Plus I needed my atty to understand the issue of addiction and how it works. He gets it better than most.
I really encourage you to be informed, that right there is the hardest part. I know I didn't know what questions to ask how to approach the situation and how things would work. You have to protect yourself, especially finanically.
Sending lots of love and support, hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I actually work for an excellent divorce attorney but I have avoided mentioning my problems to her because I knew she may meet my husband one day and I didn't want her to think badly of him. It may be a little awkward but I will have to swallow my pride and seek her help and tell her some of the messy side of my life.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G Llewellyn
