The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Most folks in recovery will say that detaching from toxic parents is necessary, especially if they are keeping you in "the lie", that we should "go away" for a time and heal. I cannot speak to this since I have not done it. I am entertaining the idea now. My energy is sapped out of me from frustration to the point I can't sleep.
On the other hand, the most knowledgable person I ever worked with in AA told me that the solution is to accept them. He's in his 70s, sober for 35 years, and is extremely active in AA & Alanon - and earlier on went to ACA & EA & OA. He said it's my Pride that won't accept my parents and I won't heal until I break down the anger that comes from my pride. He said, "I never left my mother and father."
I don't know if I can trust what he said because: a) He still seems bitter about something, I'm not sure what, and; b) He might have wanted me to stay stuck so I'd be isolated to him and be his girlfriend, which is what ended our friendship :(
I really like this topic and it's very interesting in terms of what detachment is to the individual. My mom and I do ok with our relationship I think it would surprise her that I do think of our relationship as toxic. I kind of view that as my issue. Until I deal with my crap and learn healthier ways to deal with accepting who she is, our relationship well remain toxic and toxic in an unhealthy way that I can't see my part. My part is the reactions I have when she directly hits my buttons. I don't have to respond and I do have a choice. I don't know of that is an answer to a really great question. It boils down to me, what my health is emotional mental spiritual and so on. There have been times I've needed to do more than just detach literally I've had to sever the relationship. It was to much for me to handle. I'm in a much better place. I 7am also see shes doing the best she can at the moment I have the right not to judge, to not accept that as ok for me. Take what you like! Hugs p ;)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Aloha Working...The first part of your title to this post is the tool...keep and open mind and accept different points of view on the subject because there are many valid points of view. For me detachment often times works on two levels ...from the person and the behavior and from the behavior only. Some dysfunctional people are predictable for me and so I have to, time to time, detach from them and when I do I also detach from their behavior...I'm not around and influenced by it. Other times I detach from the behavior...don't let it own me, don't judge it or critique it...just let it be "DON'T REACT!!" spend my time with them and then choose to leave. "It is what it is". I don't always "accept" people, places and things while I do "accept" that I have choices on how I want to relate to it.
The Al-Anon question "what was/is your part in it"? was the start of another "rocket science recovery" lesson because I learned that I was most often in a reactive/victim character before Al-Anon and didn't have the time, ability or facility to respond differently. I didn't know that I could ask myself the question what to you want to do about this and only find something "different" rather than the "perfect" solution. When I learned to love and walk away in love and with a smile on my face and leave a situation with people in it just the way they wanted to be I was sooo excited. I don't have to change stuff around me I can change my response to stuff around me and be okay.
There are no perfect people in program...I don't put people in the fellowship on a pedestal and I won't climb a ladder to a pedestal myself...that would be dishonest and egotistical of my self. For me there are only two differences between the members of our fellowship...gender and age. I respect people of experience and will usually be found listening to others who have more time than I...(doesn't mean I accept all they say as gospel...just like you). The other is that women raised me in recovery because they introduced me to the one part of my character I had no knowledge of and never used until they got me cornered...my heart...my emotions. Up until they got me into that classroom I was using my head only barely coming to the realization that my brain was fried by the disease and I was insane...it didn't work anymore. When they got me down to my heart I found a wider doorway to go and comeback thru.
Instead of your pride being the problem or issue try thinking about your "value system". What was done to me was wrong...no matter who had or does do it. Alcoholism isn't a moral issue it is a disease and the behaviors acted out by the victims of this disease are very often hurtful and wrong. They would not wish to have been treated that way themselves and didn't understand choices of doing it different. We all were victims.
I also like this post and will be listening for more. (((((hugs)))))
Hi Pushka, That was great, thanks. Do you believe that if someone's still being controlled through money they have no choices? If the mother is i suppose doing the best she can but will not try recovery and is very sick and manipulative?
I guess to me detaching and accepting are the same thing. I know some people have to completely cut themselves off from their parents because they are so severely dysfunctional or violent. But for others, I think accepting (while remaining with some connection) and detaching (not letting their dysfunctions pull us down) are pretty close together. Certainly accepting that they're not going to change helps us get away from always waiting for them to change and being miserable that they don't.
Acceptance can occur with not interacting with them as much. When I moved 1000 miles away from my parents, it was not because I was rejecting them. I was accepting that it wasn't healthy for me to be so close to them anymore. They unintentionally did a number on me much like you describe your parents. It was just another thing keeping me locked into sickness. As others have stated though, there is no 1 right answer. You have to find what's right for you. It is going to involve faith and stepping out of your comfort zone. You have been reaching a breaking point with this for quite some time (as gathered by your other posts I have read over the months prior). Sounds like you a really on the cusp of making some major changes.
Sounds like a vicious circle too - along the lines of "I need my parents cuz I'm sick, but I'm sick cuz I need my parents." Something has to give or that is just gonna keep repeating again and again... Hope that makes sense.
I wish I had been able to apply detachment to my relationship with my A dad. He died a few months ago, before I started Al Anon yet I was already on the path to healing and I finally realized he was a miserable sad man and that I finally was able to accept that. I never did completely cut off contact with him but I found dealing with him got easier when I was quick to forgive and accept.
Detachment for me does not mean to sever the relationship (tho for some its necessary ) it means to separate my self emotionally from the alcoholics behavior , to not take it personally , to not allow my self to be used or abused by anyone , (boundaries ) to get my life back on track and yes accepting that they are who they are and allow them to go where they need to go with out any interference from me . Love them , accept them but let go !
WTI, I understand what you mean about the money. Are you supporting her or vise versa? My mom has helped me, the kids and I wouldn't be visiting if it wasn't for her. I still have choices though. Meaning I am very grateful for the trip however I can say no or as an example I went to two meetings while I was here, I was insistent I was going. She wasn't happy and there was some guilt thrown out. it wasn't big it was put out there. I am better able to express myself in a positive way though and that is what made the difference in my anxiety. Do I get to tell her how to live? No I don't. I wish she would look into recovery, untreated alanon issues, can I make her? No. if she was an alcoholic, same story, I can't make someone do something even if it is done with the right intention, it's not the right reasons really, that whole my will gets in the way. So even financially I still have choices and so does she. I don't know if that makes sense or not, that is where I'm at. Hugs p ;)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I've spent years getting to a point of being able to accept my mother and my father. I think working through the anger, sadness and betrayal by a family that is abuisve is a long job. There is no short cut. Accepting them comes from having worked through it and there isn't a way to get to that point without going through all the emotions.
I really don't think pride has much to do with it. Of course as someone who has had their emotional development short circuited by abusive parents you don't get to maturity by clocking your fingers.
How I view my parents now is very very different from where I viewed them when I frist started recovery decades ago. How I interact with my family or origin is very much boundaried by boundaries, self protection, knowledge and more. That means in general I dont' talk to them or have much expectation of them. My family never went into recovery, in so many ways they regard our family life as sentimental denial. I can accept that but it doesn't mean I have to challenge it, come up against it and deal with it on a daily basis.
If someone is 70 years old it is pretyt much guaranteed their parents are dead. When your parents die and you grieve them it is a very very different process than coming to terms iwht an abusive parent while they are very much present in your life.
What I love so much about Al anon is that no one insisted I take any point of view (even a sponsor) they made suggestions, not ultimatums. They didn't perceive that they "knew" what I had to do. As someone who has had many many people tell me how to mourn, short circuit and abbreviate my recovery I am so grateufl I found this group because I had to become my own advocate and to know myself best of all rather than have anyone else tell me how to live.
