The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
There is a line in the play the name escapes me at the moment .. that goes "It ain't easy being human". Oh boy is there a tremendous amount of Amen brother to that statement.
I hope you are taking care of you and going to continue to take care of you regardless of if your AH is drinking or not. Expectations of another human being especially one that is so mired in the disease of addiction is a premeditated resentment waiting to happen.
That was a rotten card for him to play and I hope you won't buy into the crap he sold you on that one. Sheer manipulation on his part and wow, ... what a way to close the door.
I wish I could talk more program however I have no doubt someone else will have the words you need to hear, I just really want you to know that I'm praying for you and sending you a lot of love and support right now.
Hugs P :)
DARK OF THE MOON!!! ::: I think ::: Geeze, I'm getting old and easily distracted!!!
-- Edited by Pushka on Friday 3rd of August 2012 08:35:38 AM
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
We had a 3 hour long conversation and some went well, some went badly. He said he felt so much better because we were talking but I felt crappy at times because he over exaggerates things and gets out of control. There was one point in the conversation where I told him that his drinking and lying about it made me feel like I was being cheated on. I told him that it appeared that alcohol came before his family and that it was more important to him so that feels like someone cheating on you because alcohol has replaced you in importance. So, he starts saying stuff like, "So, now I'm an adulterer? Great, that's the unpardonable sin. Might as well serve me with the divorce papers." UGH! I could say this word many times throughout our conversation.
We talked about everything from his drinking, my codependency, s*x(or lack thereof), the church, Green Peace, politics, our son, etc. I stayed with the conversation because I felt it was opening the lines of communication and I tried to not get resentful that it took ME again saying, "We have to talk, " to get him to open up. I guess I sometimes wished he would just talk to me because he wants to resolve things instead of waiting for me.
I have agreed to marriage counseling. He has agreed to stop drinking, but will not attend AA. At least he actually didn't deny the drinking. There was a lot of me saying, "Right there. Do you see what we did there? We went in a circle of blaming each other. That has to stop." Other times I'd stop him and say, "See, this is another problem with communication. You leave the room because you feel I hate your opinion but I feel hurt because you leave the room after I express my opinion." He tried to tell me how I feel sooo many times that it was ridiculous, creating scenarios that never existed in my own mind. He was convinced I was having an affair since he wasn't getting any and he told me that men equate s*x with love and that if a guy isn't getting any then that must mean his wife doesn't love him anymore. Again, UGH!
All in all, I guess it was good but we have a long way to go. He will still rent cars while traveling and he keeps insisting he must do it to keep his job and wouldn't see it any other way. He still disagrees with the laws and finds that they are meant to punish people. Maybe I just need to accept the unacceptable behavior because it's obvious we don't see eye to eye on what's right vs what's wrong when it comes to this stuff. Who knows? I just have to take it one day at a time.
He also told me that every time we have s*x he thinks I'm going to report him as a rapist to the police since I'm a former rape victim. Gee, that's comforting so when he asked if we could have s*x last night, I told him no. I mean, who wants to have sex with someone who thinks you're going to report him as a rapist. UGH. He also told me that if I ever get a job outside of the home that our marriage will be over. He was dead serious and he said that I'd probably meet someone and fall in love and leave him. That's sad, you know. Oh, there was so much more and I'm waffling between being angry and just plain depressed.
You can't say you have not tried. Of course it would be nice if he would all of the sudden have clarity and stop being so irrational about so many things. That may or may not ever happen. Many posts demonstrating him to be irrational and insecure. Unsurprisingly you got more irrational and insecure comments.
It reminds me of what Tom says a lot. "Stop expecting a sick irrational alcoholic to act well." Sorry if I misquoted...
This is not to say there is not hope and both of you seem pretty committed.... Both of you are also drawing lines in the sand - not to delve too much in to trying to be your marriage counselor....
LOL, oh no....go ahead and counsel away! Thanks guys. I just needed to hear that it was manipulative and irrational and that it wasn't me. I mean, I had my moments of issues during the conversation, too, but my feelings about feeling cheated on were true and I've heard that before from Al Anon folks. The fact that we feel alcohol has replaced us in importance in their lives and we feel we come in second is a similar feeling to being cheated on. He was shocked to hear that, though, so maybe it hit home. I also reminded him of all the times he told me he'd quit and then start drinking again.
One of the most ridiculous moments was when I told him that I felt he lied about never drinking again after the DUI. He said, "well technically I didn't lie. I just didn't disclose." UGH, god this drives me crazy. Umm, no if you said the DUI was your bottom and that you wouldn't drink again and then you do, I would say that's a lie. It's all semantics to him(is that the right word, LOL?).
Semantics is completely the right word!! My stbax was and is a master at that as I'm seeing most addicts are, if there is just enough truth then it's not really a lie. The real deal is it doesn't matter what his motives are it's all about the disease and the disease gets what it wants especially when it's active. My personal definition of an active addict is someone who is not working some kind of program of recovery. So put the focus back on what does ILD realistically have control over, which is herself. He is going to do what he's going to do how can you best protect yourself and the kiddo. It's so hard to watch someone I care about, even though liking him not so much, destroy himself. Hugs p ;)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
What you said about feeling like he's having an affair reminds me of a story in the book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drew (one of Toms recommendations ). A lady in the book talks about how if it were another woman, at least she'd be able to compete, but she just can't compete with a bottle. .. or something like that... I think I'm gonna read that book again this week. It was so much help for me.
And about s*x... my husband and I stopped having it over a year ago because I refused to do it while he was drunk... he decided he'd rather be drunk though... Ugh!
Be encouraged. (((Big Hugs)))
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Mandy
Don't settle for less than your potenial. Remember, average is as close to the bottom as to the top. ~Unknown
No matter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back! ~Unknown
so much of your journal entry reminded me of many conversatons with my actively drinking AH. I totally get the feeling of being cheated on by your husband with alcohol.... each of my (young adult) children and I have said so many times "He loves drinking more than he loves ME!" And on one level, it's clear, he does. Though "love" might not be the operative word here.
on the other hand, as I've begun to understand about alcoholism as a disease, I've begun to understand something my husband, who admits he's an alcoholic, and yet is actively drinking, would protest, "It has nothing to do with loving you!" It helps a wee little bit to remind myself, that so many loved ones of alcoholics say/feel this.... and I think that many A's would get frustrated at our lack of 'getting it'. (their problem, admittedly, not ours) I think in the end, the siren call of alcohol to an alcoholic- while it can seem like the other woman, is truly just a bottle, a substance which is cunning, baffling, powerful.
Part of my detachment is to take it less personally. Part of my detachment with love is to try and place a little understanding on what it's like for him, as the victim of this disease...... In my f2f meetings I have several what I call 'oldtimers', men who have been recovering A's for many years and now find themselves in Al-Anon, and listening to them, their experiences as former active alcoholics and what it was like for them, helps a lot. One of them said to me recently- "If you are going to try and talk through something with him, if you are going to try and reason with him- you just might as well set a bottle of vodka on the table and talk to it. You'll get the same results." They've told me that as long as he is drinking, as long as he is not in recovery, the disease will not let anything- anything get in the way of the next drink. They will lie, they will even believe their lies, they will try to do 'better', they will hide, cheat whatever it takes to get the next drink. I've been told that in a one on one conversation with an actively drinking alcoholic, the disease will ALWAYS 'win'. Always. I didn't use to believe that, but I sure do now.
I don't understand it, at all. I don't understand why this disease, is the only disease that convinces those that have it that they don't have it, or that they don't need help. Crazy making.
OMG: it gets worse. Almost comical but I'm fuming right now.
I wanted to clarify to him why he didn't get any last night because he acting like the victim again. I told him that the things he said certainly don't attract me to him and nothing he said made me feel any closer to him.
He retaliated by saying that a Christian woman shouldn't withhold sex from her husband so that gave him the right to look at porn and get himself off, LOL! Honestly, it's insanity. He kept making it all about sex, when really our main issue is the drinking, the denial, the lying, minimizing, etc. Oh yeah, and that's why men have affairs, too, because their wives are frigid. When I tried to explain again that his attitude isn't sex appealing he turned on me and said, "Well, YOU won't let me mastur*ate." ROFLOL! What the??? I don't think this subject has ever come up in conversation with him EVER before, I could care less if he gets himself off every dang night. Go for it.
So, he also justified his rapist comments by saying it's the truth because I'm a rape victim(yes, that's exactly how to justify, play off my pain and suffering to make himself look better?). He said if he can't talk honestly about how he feels then we shouldn't have anymore conversations. FINE WITH ME! UGH!
). A lady in the book talks about how if it were another woman, at least she'd be able to compete, but she just can't compete with a bottle. .. or something like that... I think I'm gonna read that book again this week. It was so much help for me.