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I am finding lately that anything I say that has my own opinion in it is cause for my AH to start an argument. If my comments or conversation topics are not totally neutral or something that makes him look or feel good about himself, I cannot say it because he immediately gets defensive and starts an argument.
I am trying very hard not to engage in any arguments with him, but it is so hard when I know I am right and he is looking for an argument. I know he is defensive because of his disease but it still angers me and tires me.
I wish so badly that I could have a normal conversations with my husband where my opinions and points of view were respected.
I understand you well. Someone in a group meeting once said that it is like discussing if the grass is green or blue. What does it matter? My ABF is sometimes like the girl in the song "She never gives in. She just changes her mind." Often I say what I think, then let go. If he likes, he later comes up with a new idea, surprisingly similar to what I had said ;)
I've heard several here talk about seeing a sign on their forhead that they are "sick" to help remind when talking to them. I know with my own "serenity" I'm having to learn that being right is not usually helpful when discussing with someone who is sick, and actually even if it's not someone sick.
I'm trying to learn how to ask the other person thought provoking but easy questions, in a genuine manner, vs telling them what I see and believe. I'm far from perfect at it, still haave to really work on this with my kids but have even found it useful when dealing with my parents who are beginning to get forgetful, stubborn and insistant. It allows me to sit back and kind of go "do I have to prove I'm right here or should I just let her figure it out?" I'm finding if I sit back more, the other person figures it out faster, instead of reacting with the "no I have to be right too" perspective which can lock them into being sure they are right (if they are stubborn like me LOL).
It took my ex over two years to figure out why it would hurt my feelings when I brought him homemade split pea soup, he said it looked like baby vomit with a disgusted look on his face, and stuck it in the fridge never to be eaten. It took that long to figure it out! Over a year to figure out why hanging out with his exwife, going to her house to help her when he wouldn't help me, taking her to get his 1st year chip and refusing to allow me to participate, etc would hurt my feelings and destroy our relationship. I am still so bitter. Geez. I see that when I get revved up like this. Where was I? Oh yah, I guess my point is that his time line to figure things out is just too delayed for me. This morning I tried to think about it as him just having terrible brain damage. If I try to analyze why and how he could think that way I go crazy! Even though he's sick I can't wait for him to figure it out. I also can't tell him the answer because it causes defensiveness and resentment on both ends.
I'm with everyone else here. We are living with sick people, they have a thinking disease. You might as well have a conversation with a tree, you'll get better results. It's a sad reality that I have come to accept. My AH and I will no longer have normal conversations as long as he is drinking or taking anti-depressants(which also mess with his thinking), or violating the law(which he's doing now by driving on a suspended license), etc. He gets too defensive and I feel hurt because all I'm trying to do is express my opinion on something or express how I feel. It always backfires on me! Right now, we are down to just being civil with eachother, we get along on the surface as long as I don't rock the boat, and it stinks but it's the truth. Whenever I start longing for that connection with him, I remind myself that it may bite me in the rear. But, I still sometimes go to touch the stove to see if it's still hot.
For example, yesterday I was depressed about my marriage. I'm angry about his DUI, I'm angry about the fact that he's still drinking, I'm angry that he's driving on a suspended license and risking serious consequences for himself and for our family. Soooooo, I had a little talk with him yesterday knowing full well that it probably wouldn't go well. And, I got what I suspected. He laid into me saying, "Stop trying to run my life." and various other comments about how he'll lie to the police if he gets pulled over, etc. When he tried to pull me further into the conversation, though, I turned my back and said, "I'm done talking about this," and I walked out of the room. OK, so lesson learned. So, why did I go back to the stove to check on it? Most likely, I was craving some sort of interaction from him and any conversation is sometimes better than no conversation. This is why I still have to keep working with my Al Anon sponsor, keep going to meetings, keep coming back here and posting, etc. It's what keeps me grounded and what keeps me sane. I hope you keep coming back and learning and reading from this site. It truly has been a life saver for me!
I really dislike that about myself--doing the same thing over and expecting different results. I don't do it with people who I communicate well with and have healthy relationships with. It's the ones that give me intermittent acceptance that keep me coming back for more hurt.
I was doing some reading out of From Survival To Recovery in the tub and found the perfect line for me right now, "At first it was difficult, but slowly I learned to stop turning to sick people for the unconditional love only a Higher Power can unfailingly provide."
Chaya
I can tell you from my own experience, an alcoholic is totally railing against the world and they feel like they don't fit in anywhere. Instead of dealing with the fact that the reason they don't fit in is that their ego is so overblown it does not allow for this, they drink and continue the denial pattern while criticizing the world.
The spiritual axiom in AA states basically "When I have a problem with someone else, the problem is with me." Page 417 of thew big book states "And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."
When I reflect on how these are like core tennets of AA, I can also see more clearly in retrospect why they are there. Alcoholics are sick, underdeveloped personalities that masquerade trying to make the problem everyone else rather than face facts which is that they (and me included) have little to no skills for dealing with life, disappointments, feelings of social insecurity, and any other basic challenge. And to top it off, the problem gets worse as long as the person is actively drinking.
Even in sobriety, I catch myself getting fed up too quick with others, judging, dominating conversations, and acting like a know it all. These are stubborn character defects for sure and pretty common for alcoholics.
So, if any of this helps people detach from the disease further, that's cool. In the meanwhile, it's 24 hours and knowing these things does at least keep me stronger for today.
I thought about the story with the pea soup you were telling. I love this brown pea soup, when it is really mushy... Hm... Once I made chicken tandoori, which accidentally turned out divine. One of the reasons was that I had not completely defrosted the chicken, so it ended up crispy outside and juicy inside. By the time it came out of the oven, my dear ABF was very drunk. He took one bite of the chicken, went into the bathroom and threw up very loudly. I was mad, because he did not appreciate the meal and I was mad because he ruined my appetite.
Anyway, I am cooking a lot and cooking for others as well. Cooking and food has actually been a part of my detachment practice. Now that I am alone at home, I figure out what I would cook for myself, how much effort I would put into it and how would it make me feel. The answer is, choosing, cooking and enjoying my favourite food, which is somewhat creative vegetarian most of the time, makes me happy and feel loved by myself! In contrast, I understood that I was cooking a lot for others before and the effort seldom matched the appreciation. There are a few things that always work, for example my quadruple chocolate muffins. Nevertheless, I figured out that my ABF just did not want all the carefully arranged several-course all-home-made meals. I find myself reading cooking books, thinking, he might like this, they might like that. This is my practice to recognise and stop this thinking and do for me what I like. If hubby is asking for steak, ok, I can make steak. But I would not make lamb saag, which is his favourite take-away, from scratch without him really wanting it.
