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Boundaries are the best solution. I am not sure how to best implement them in your situation because I don't walk in your shoes and you are describing a raging alcoholic who may not respect or respond to boundaries how a normal person would (actually he probably won't).
Agreeing ahead of time how you discipline the children will be crucial. Having a calm discussion about it when he is 1. Not drunk and 2. Not raging and setting up some boundaries so that you can both be "on the same page" with how you parent. This way you are not calling him a bad father and not sounding like it's all his fault (even if a lot of this is his fault and it's due to his drinking).
Another possible boundary is that he not discipline the kids after he's been drinking. He would probably agree that he drinks to relax (even though we all know that alcoholics have drank way past that reason being viable) - and that his angry reactions to the kids when drinking are doubled because he's trying to relax, and his inhibition is lowered due to drinking. Hence, the reason for him not disciplining the kids when drunk is beneficial to him and them. (although this could lead to a resentment if he gets to check out on parenting due to being drunk all the time).
This is why alcoholism is a disease of isolation - Simply because you cannot be an effective "drunk parent" "drunk worker" "drunk friend." Setting boundaries is very difficult with an alcoholic because they will give up or ruin jobs, friends, and relationships before realizing that alcohol is the culprit. The rest of the world is going to enforce boundaries and they are going to tell him "No. You can't get drunk and scream at work" and "No. You can't get drunk and scream at me and be my friend." The same goes for parenting and being a spouse. Eventually the alcoholic is by themselves with just the bottle.
Sad. I know some of this is idealistic and you have to tune it to how it would work for you in your situation. Kids that get screamed at and raged at by a parent are far more likely to develop aggression problems and/or anxiety problems. Providing your husband is not so progressed in his disease he can't handle hearing any criticism or feedback, even he would probably say he doesn't want that for his kids.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 23rd of May 2012 12:46:41 PM
I attended my second F2F meeting today. Yea for baby steps!
One of the questions I am still working with is, how do I protect my children from their father?
In the past I have spoken up or stepped in when I feel he has crossed a line or I didn't agree with the way he was handling the situation. This approach always causes a blow-up. AH felt I was disrepecting him and undermining his authority as a father. There were times I agreed with him, and apologized (I was trying to control the situation, it really wasn't an issue until I got involved).
But there have been times when he is verbally abusive, angry, raging. I feel he has crossed a line. How do I handle these situations?
I don't want my children to feel they are alone in the situation. How do I protect my children without adding to the chaos?
I can relate to this one and my exAH would tell me I was undermining him and disrespecting him. I believe we get red flags for a reason and I learned to talk to him about it later away from the kids ear shot, so that I wasn't trying to make him look bad. I however would step in if I thought he was out of control, but that was usually towards me and not the kids. I learned to leave whenever he was in a certain mood mixed with drinking. My exAH was all ego and couldn't really hear anything I was trying to say all he heard was nag nag nag and he would tell me so. Keep coming back and working your program! Sending you love and support!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
The first question would be whether he is capable of (willing to) control himself when he's drunk and in a rage. If he's capable of deciding ahead of time that he will not rage at them, or that you can call him on it and he will stop, then that is a solution. My guess is that he cannot/will not do this, if he is like 99.9% of alcoholics.
Then the question is if you can do something to mitigate the effects of his rage, even though he won't agree with it. Like, can you leave the house with the children, can you take them into their bedrooms without him following you, or whatever you can to remove them from the situation.
If that doesn't work -- and with some people it will, some it won't -- then you have to think about how often it happens and what price you are willing for your children to pay. If it's once a year, it may be scary for them but tolerable, especially if you explain the situation to them gently and they have Alateen resources or whatever is appropriate to their age group.
If he does this frequently, I think you'd reflect on the impact of this on the kids. They will be growing up thinking that it's normal to be raged at, possibly meaning the boys will see this as the way men behave and the girls will see this as what normally happens in a marriage, so if their boyfriend does it, they have no choice but to stick with it. And it is painful to experience, so their pain will come out in whatever kind of expression is available to them.
I know you know all this because that is why you're concerned. Much to think about. Hugs.
One of the things that is suggested in the program is to not make really major changes for a while. I think with boundaries I always wanted to start with the big things first. That's like lifting a 300 lb weight when you haven't already started with the 5 lb weight.
I know I don't have children but I also know that the way I behaved with the ex A affected our pets enormously. I would go in and out of denial about that. We would row, rage and carry on and they were terrified. Now I have a rule with my pets that no one is ever going to rage, carry on or be out of control around them. That doesn't mean I don't shout at them sometimes which I do or totally smother them in affection. I am human. I hold that rule pretty clearly. I can't say that I got to that point overnight but when I did finally "see' what it was doing to my pets I stopped being willing to let the ex A carry on as he did.
You don't get from A to Z overnight. I had to work a program in order to be able to get there. In doing that in learning to detach, take care of myself, watch what I was doing I stopped being so preoccupied with the now exA.
Some of us codependents are idealistic. I had a long long list of "shoulds" in my repetoire before. Now I have a boundary list. People do cross my boundaries, of course I am not in a perfect world but I don't respond with "should's". I respond with actions. I have a red flag radar now that I didn't before. Red flags were not that important to me before I had such low self esteem. Now they are. Around certain people I have very limited interactions. There are some people I don't ever engage with again. There are other people I engage with on an intimate level but they are few and far between.
You are just starting out on the recovery the shoulda, woulda, coulda demon is there for so many of us codependents. Learning how to navigate these waters isn't easy. It takes time, patience (something I am just learning to have) and persistence. Take care of yourself along the way.
Have you ever wondered why when the smoke clears the one person everyone is angry with is US. I like you was always in the middle of my sons relationship with their father * which by the way was exausting * a wise old timmer told me to back off and let them work it out , since there was never any physical abuse that turned out to be easier than i thought it was painful to listen to thier altercations but eventually my sons started to stand up for themselves , stopped taking the outbursts personally and understood that thier dad had been drinking , they learned to excuse them selves politley from stupid arguments and walk away . You dont say how old your children are , at the time my boys were 12-14. share with your children what your learning in our program , this is a disease its not personal etc. today our sons are young men and have an awsome relationship with thier dad and all I had to do was step aside and let it play out the way it was supposed to . If my husb was too agressive I spoke to him privatley after the kids had left the room . Just a few suggestions that worked for me . Louise
Thank you all for your ideas and insight. I will need to re-read these and let it all soak in. The raging and name-calling is always directed at me (up to this point). It isn't always while drinking, if he is having a bad day or stressed out, watch out! He gets harsh with the kids and it is usually over little things. I have been trying to remove them from the situation and repeat the 3 C's. I reassure them the best I can. I know there will come a point when he accuses me of "turning his children against him." I will worry about that day when it gets here until then, I will continue to work my program and give them what I can. Eventually they will be able to stand on their own.
When I began Alanon, I so wanted the instant solutions, the magic pill, that would make me part of the solution, not the problem. 33 years later, I realize that it took me the first part of my life to become this messed up and it's going to take me the rest of my life, in recovery, learning and growing to be and stay part of the solution.
My Experience (what it was like), Strength (what happened) and Hope (what it's like now) comes with growing pains and is still coming . . . when I stop growing, learning, sharing, working, serving, I lose the recover y I have and sink into my disease as if I'd never left. My disease is just like that of the A . . . it's progressive and when I stop "treatment", I become as sick as I would be had I never been in recovery. . . The very best reason to "keep coming back."
