The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
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level.
Other times he goes in cycles where he "realizes" how wrong he is to drink like he does, and talks about how he's going to change. And I believe that he means it when he says it, but I know the cycle. I know that it's only a matter of time, usually days, sometimes a week, before he's at it again. How am I supposed to support him when he has these "moments of clarity" when all I can think is: 'here we go again".
Alanon is a program about YOU. It really doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do, even why he does it or not (he's an alcoholic, he's an alcoholic, he's an alcoholic AND alcoholism is a disease). The program is about family of alcoholics (addicts really doesn't matter), how to live a life and not be obsessed with what the A is doing or not doing You have a right to live a full life regardless of if your A is active or recovering.
Someone recently wrote and I wish I could remember who it was so whomever you are thank you for this little piece of treasure!! When their A speaks they see blue fog coming out of their A's mouth, meaning what they are saying isn't personal. The promises aren't personal, the awful words aren't personal, and it's so hard to get to that point of realizing that it's the disease and not the person we see under the disease. When an A has a moment of clarity and they are NOT in a program of recovery; they mean what they say in that instant .. it's short term. I've heard this story many times .. an A knows they have lost control again .. they know they shouldn't do it, they have guilt, shame, and are running away. At noon after recovering from the previous night, they get up around noon swear it will never happen again .. by 1pm they are back doing what they had been doing. You can put in min, hours, days, weeks, months and even years in that time frame. The intention really IS that they aren't going to do it again, the disease of mind, body and soul has a grip so tight and hard it becomes a compulsion.
So bottom line "here we go again" translates to go to a meeting, get some support, read lots of alanon lit, there are other good books around as well, Getting Them Sober, Toby Rice Drew (Toby Drew Rice? I get confused .. LOL), Melody Beattie is what opened my eyes a LOT to things I needed to start doing differently. I was so lost I didn't even get how much pain I was in until I came to alanon.
Keep coming back, you are worth it and it really does get better, hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I went through a lot of 'here we go again' especially before I was in Al Anon. I used to plead and beg him not to drink anymore and he'd say OK. Then I'd find the empty vodka bottle and I'd be back at 'here we go again'. I didn't realize that he was just blowing smoke and that I was the one with the problem. He had no intention of not ever drinking again, he was just trying to get me to shut up and to save face. Once I got into my program of recovery, I stopped begging him to stop, I stopped crying about it, and all of a sudden his behavior got worse. He started binge drinking more and starting earlier, finishing later. It was like he was rebelling because I was in Al Anon, at least that's how I see it because he seemed to always get really drunk on my meeting nights.
Then one night I came home around 7 PM and he was fully in the bag, he had liquor all over the house, half drunk cups of beer, cups of wine, empty bottles, etc. I didn't say a word, I went to take a shower and left my 13 year old with him in the backyard where AH had started a fire in the fire pit. While I was in the shower, AH left. The first thing I wrote in my journal is: he's going to get a DUI soon and I won't be there to get him out of jail. Sure enough, he got a DUI that night and I didn't go get him, either. He hasn't had a drink since, to my knowledge, but the fun isn't over by a long shot. And, that's where Al Anon has saved me from myself and my destructive patterns of codependency. I was a crazy mess trying to control his behavior because I thought he was setting a wrong example for our son, he wasn't being a good husband or father, etc. Well, I realized that he was going to do what he was going to do and I started taking care of myself. He doesn't seem to like it much, though.
Can I ask you something: did he ask you to support him? What are you doing to support yourself? I used to think that I HAD to support him and then I realized that I was pushing myself aside for his benefit. I'm not saying you give up on the relationship, but what I am saying is that the only person you can control is yourself. Remind yourself of these three C's:
You can't cure it. You didn't cause it. You can't control it.
Pushka mentioned the book Getting them Sober by Toby Rice Drews and that is a great book and easy read. I think you will find the answers you are looking for there and also by attending Al Anon meetings in your area. It can get better for you!
What you say and how you might support him all depends on how well your relationshp is going in other ways. If there is still loving communication and some openness there, you could tactfully and lovingly state "Honey, I know you want to stop. I also know that the nature of drinking (or alcoholism if he can handle hearing that) is such that when you feel better, the desire will just creep up on you again. It's not that I don't love you because I do, but I know how this works from seeing you and from what I learned about alcoholism. The best way I can support you is to encourage you to go to AA and start working a recovery program." Most alcoholics will reach points of clarity about knowing they have a problem and need to stop before they actually do stop. This happened with me. I knew I needed to stop for a couple of years and I would tell people that periodically....but then I wouldn't stop. I thought getting sober was like going on a diet and that it just required "not drinking." I asked for support in that but I didn't know it was pointless. Getting sober is not about "not drinking." It's about doing things that actually support a sober lifestyle. It's about making drastic life changes and it starts with going to meetings and being willing to go to any lengths to build a sober life - not just quit drinking and expect the problem to magically cure itself. It won't.
I'm not trying to stick words in your mouth. I just don't know a better way to express how you possibly could go about commuicating this type of support. Of course this is only possible if your relationship has not deteriorated to the point where anything you say will be interpretted as nagging.
There are no right answers so don't think I'm telling you the "right" thing to do. Depending on the circumstances, the more "right" thing to do would be to detach and take the attitude of "He's gonna drink or maybe not so forget it...I will just focus on me." That is typically the guidance I see in alanon and usually, it's more useful. Despite that, there are circumstances where the spouse really does want to get sober and being supportive really does help (as long as you don't go overboard). Only you can figure out if your "support" is going to be a waste of time and energy or not.
They do believe it when they say it, I believe. I can't believe anyone would choose this disease, and in their own minds all they want is to live differently. But until they hit bottom and seek their own recovery they just can't. In the meantime you keep working your program for YOU! You can only control your thoughts and actions. You already know the cycle so you make plans as to how you will handle it. How you will take care of you. Keep workin it You are worth it! Blessings
Alanon is a program about YOU. It really doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do, even why he does it or not (he's an alcoholic, he's an alcoholic, he's an alcoholic AND alcoholism is a disease). The program is about family of alcoholics (addicts really doesn't matter), how to live a life and not be obsessed with what the A is doing or not doing You have a right to live a full life regardless of if your A is active or recovering.
Thanks for all the comments. I guess it's hard for me to not WANT to believe him when he is having clarity because I know he means it. One thing about him is that he TALKS and will sometimes carry on for over an hour about how he's been wrong, he's sorry, god is dealing with him, will I forgive him, etc.
And so in those moments, am I just supposed to be encouraging and listen? I just want to say "I'll believe it when I see it".
One thing he told me that when he was in his his early 20's (he's 38 now) his mom would tell him things like, "i'll believe it when i see it" etc when he would have "moments". He said that his mom went to an al-anon meeting and they told her not to say things like that to him. To be encouraging during his moments of "clarity".
All I want to tell him is to "shut up and quit talking to me". but I know that would not be prodcutive and probably he would just go out to the bar and not come home until morning. So I just listen and try to be encouraging. I even ask what I can do to help him and he doesn't really have an answer because I know deep down that he knows deep down, this is not the end.
I don't really feel like I'm obsessed with what he is doing. I guess I just wanted to know if anyone has had to listen to their A in moments of "clarity" and how they handled it when all they really wanted to do was scream.
What you say and how you might support him all depends on how well your relationshp is going in other ways. If there is still loving communication and some openness there, you could tactfully and lovingly state "Honey, I know you want to stop. I also know that the nature of drinking (or alcoholism if he can handle hearing that) is such that when you feel better, the desire will just creep up on you again. It's not that I don't love you because I do, but I know how this works from seeing you and from what I learned about alcoholism. The best way I can support you is to encourage you to go to AA and start working a recovery program." Most alcoholics will reach points of clarity about knowing they have a problem and need to stop before they actually do stop. This happened with me. I knew I needed to stop for a couple of years and I would tell people that periodically....but then I wouldn't stop. I thought getting sober was like going on a diet and that it just required "not drinking." I asked for support in that but I didn't know it was pointless. Getting sober is not about "not drinking." It's about doing things that actually support a sober lifestyle. It's about making drastic life changes and it starts with going to meetings and being willing to go to any lengths to build a sober life - not just quit drinking and expect the problem to magically cure itself. It won't.
I'm not trying to stick words in your mouth. I just don't know a better way to express how you possibly could go about commuicating this type of support. Of course this is only possible if your relationship has not deteriorated to the point where anything you say will be interpretted as nagging.
There are no right answers so don't think I'm telling you the "right" thing to do. Depending on the circumstances, the more "right" thing to do would be to detach and take the attitude of "He's gonna drink or maybe not so forget it...I will just focus on me." That is typically the guidance I see in alanon and usually, it's more useful. Despite that, there are circumstances where the spouse really does want to get sober and being supportive really does help (as long as you don't go overboard). Only you can figure out if your "support" is going to be a waste of time and energy or not.
So true, about "it's not just stop drinking", It's about a lifestyle. When we met he had been sober for 3 years. But I didn't realzie at the time was that he had the "alcoholic personality" just wasn't drinking. He says he wasn't even thinking about drinking during that time because God had taken the desire from him. He says that during that time he had no cravings or thoughts and was doing it without a "program". He hates programs. He hates AA and several other programs he has been to becuase he doesn't like feeling like he has a problem and everyone is judging him and everyone hates him. Did I mention everyone judges him?
Oh my God. I know of a meeting tonight and I think I am going to go. The meeting tonight I kind of stopped going to because there were members in the group that would not stop talking when it was their turn to talk and would just ramble on about things that had no relevance to the topic. And they would keep talking even after it was supposed to be wrapping up!
Detachment! that's it, while he's going on and on for over an hour, I nod and smile and the entire time I'm actually thinking about other things. I guess that is my best coping mechanism.
Not saying what you should do, because everyone's situation is different. But I think I would say, "The way I see it, talking doesn't make anything different. The way I see it, if you wanted things to be different, you'd start a program of recovery in AA and stick with it if you wanted the tools to stay sober. That's your choice or not. It's frustrating to me to talk about it so I'm going to go do [whatever]." And then he can start AA or not.
What I'm used to in these situations is that the person feels all kinds of guilt and worry, and wants to get these relieved by confessing and talking. Like if someone says to them that they're okay, they'll be forgiven, and everything, it relieves their mind, and then they don't have to take action. So sometimes I think it's appropriate for us to hand the responsibility for recovery back to them. Actions will do it, not talk.
Not saying what you should do, because everyone's situation is different. But I think I would say, "The way I see it, talking doesn't make anything different. The way I see it, if you wanted things to be different, you'd start a program of recovery in AA and stick with it if you wanted the tools to stay sober. That's your choice or not. It's frustrating to me to talk about it so I'm going to go do [whatever]." And then he can start AA or not.
What I'm used to in these situations is that the person feels all kinds of guilt and worry, and wants to get these relieved by confessing and talking. Like if someone says to them that they're okay, they'll be forgiven, and everything, it relieves their mind, and then they don't have to take action. So sometimes I think it's appropriate for us to hand the responsibility for recovery back to them. Actions will do it, not talk.
The second paragraph is very true, wow!
Wow, that first paragraph is such a great thing to say in theory. I'm going to chew on that and see if the right moment comes to say soemthing like that (again).
I feel like I have said similar things... He can tend to be a yeller though and I feel like every time it gets turned back on me and I'm the bad guy.
Try different meetings. I attended a meeting that turned me off, too, but I finally found 2 meetings that are worth my time and I attend them regularly. My AH also believes that everyone will judge him, yet he's the first to judge others too. He won't do AA, he quit for 15 years without a program so why start now? His psychiatrist told him to go to AA and he said he'd go if I forced him. I refuse to do that. He needs to be responsible for his own recovery, I can only gently remind him that actions speak louder than words.
Mattie made a lot of good points. I do hope that you will find a different meeting. Hugs, B
Hi Callmemara: Those "moments of clarity" always meant the world to me, and would leave me feeling so grateful and hopeful that this would be the time things would finally be different. Around the 3rd sobriety date tattoo and 8th or 9th serious conversation of wanting to quit drinking, my outlook started to change to just apathy. I would always listen to him say what he needed to say, try to be supportive, but I got to the point where I knew that it was not in my best interest to get hopeful based on his words alone. I knew he meant what he said at the time, and it is always nice to hear some remorse when that comes so few and far between, but at a certain point I would just want to scream because it was so frustrating. Whether he means it this time or not, please just stay true to your own health and happiness. My exAH has taught me that expecting him to follow through on any of his "plans of sobriety" has only consistently hurt one of us. While he was back to getting drunk again and numbing any feelings he might have had, I was the one seething with anger, hurt and resentment, wondering what it was that I didn't do right this time to make him drink again. Expectations always led to disappointment, and once that finally clicked for me, I never expected any follow through from him again. This doesn't mean that I wasn't supportive when he did have moments of sobriety, it just meant that I would absorb the good sober times we had together, hoping things would stay like this for just one more day, but knowing in the back of my mind that at any moment he could choose to drink again and I would make plans for that as well.
You deserve good things in life. Please take care of yourself and know that you are responsible for your own happiness. When I started going to meetings, getting back in touch with friends I almost lost because I never wanted to leave my AH alone, and got a second job I realized i was too busy to obsess about what he was doing. I no longer cared because he was no longer the source of my happiness. At that point I would be more bummed about a kickboxing class being cancelled or a softball game getting rained out because i knew my kids and I would have to be stuck in a moody, unpredictable environment at home with my exAH for the night.
