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Hi all...I'm facing a situation this weekend, and I'm trying to decide how to handle it (and examine my motives as I choose the best course of action).
My AH is in a bowling league at work. Usually bowling is after work on Wednesdays. Since he works second shift, this means bowling goes from 11 pm to 1 am. The league recently wrapped up until after summer.
Some teams in the league (which consists only of people who work in my AH's particular area of the manufacturing process--he works at a Fortune 100 company as a skilled laborer) have been asked to participate in a company-wide bowling tournament. The tournament is this Saturday, in the afternoon.
He did another tournament several weeks ago, which was smaller and consisted only of teams in his union. At his request, I stopped by the bowling alley with our son (who is 2), to say "hi" and so my AH could show off our son. THAT bowling tournament started at 9 a.m. When we arrived at 11 a.m., everyone had clearly been drinking all morning, including my AH. I don't know whether he was drunk at the point we got there (and we only stayed for 15 mintues because I was so uncomfortable and I needed to get lunch for my son), but he was clearly wasted by the time he finally came home several hours later, after the bowling had long finished.
So...he wants me to bring our son by this weekend's bowling tournament, again to say "hi" and "cheer him on."
I'm not sure what to do. This tournament will be a wide variety of people from the company, from the corporate office to the skilled laborers, and there is at least a reasonable chance that it will not be quite as beer-soaked as the last one (his union buddies are all very, very heavy drinkers). I'm fairly confident I will be uncomfortable again, and that makes me want to decline his request to come by with our son. But I also know that this isn't just about me...it's about my AH, and his relationship with our son. I've learned from Al Anon and you all that barring things that put our son in danger or make him scared, my AH's relationship with our son is his business, and it is not up to me to judge it, or try and force their relationship to be what I want it to be.
Part of my hesitation is that I don't want our son to see his dad drunk (at least, not in a situation where I actually have some control over whether he sees it or not...usually I have no control). But my AH has never been anything but a loving, doting father to our son (when he spends time with him, which is rare now). There is no reason for me to think that my AH would behave in any way that would upset or damage our son.
I know I'm overthinking this...I feel like I can't really identify what my true motives are here. Do I want to skip it for my own serenity? Because I'm trying to punish my AH for his drinking? To keep our son from my AH? Ugh. Any ESH on things like this would be much appreciated...
This is an opinion and I soooo understand what you are saying on more levels than I care to say, .. you actually do have options .. one of them being instead of staying for the whole thing .. just go say "hi" let your son and you cheer him on a bit for a few frames and you know what .. there is no law saying you have to stay for the whole thing. You can cheer someone on and move along to the next order of the day.
I am learning to allow my AH to be the dad he needs to be .. it may not be MY version of what a dad should be however he has good points too and I need to remember that. I don't block everything that seems dangerous or damaging .. I DO give my children a soft place to come to when they need to state how they feel about a situation. If not me .. they have outlets to go to and I encourage them both to do so. My kids are older 8, 13 .. so their ability to vocalize their own needs are a little different than your sons. He just needs to know he's safe, loved and cared for by both of you.
Again my 2 cents, .. take what you like and leave the rest. My youngest was 3 the first time he saw a really bad incident with my spouse. At 3 .. he went to his dad and said I don't like how you act when you drink grown up drinks (it's always how we differed soda from beer or wine, at 8 my son still says that .. LOL). You act silly and I felt afraid. It was a BIG eye opener for my spouse during that time. My kids have NO issue stating things of that nature even from that young. My daughter has also vocalized different things to her dad during these times. It's amazing what they can do on their own when given the opportunity. Because I"m a talker .. LOL .. my kids are similar.
Hugs, give it to your HP and you will find your balance. P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
If it were me, I'd probably go but I'd go as soon as it started to avoid the possibility of seeing dad drunk. I'd stay for an hour or so and then tell my AH that I have things that need to get done at home and that we'll see him when he gets home later. I understand your hesitation, I'd feel the same way but I do think I'd bring my son mainly just to be supportive and to allow me to get past my own negative emotions. Of course, if I showed up and AH was drunk already, I'd say a quick hello, tell son that we're here just to say 'hi daddy' and then leave right away. Every relationship is different, though, and my own AH (in reality) wouldn't want me to bring our son to anything he was involved in if he was drinking. He was always ashamed of his drinking, hence the reason he did most of it in his office after we went to bed. I probably didn't help much, LOL, but I'm sending you lots of support anyway!
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably drop in, stay just a little so your son can do the" Hey, it's Daddy! " and leave when you're ready. If he was drunk, I'd leave immediately and/or quickly.
Most 2 yr. olds also have the attention span bugs, so sticking around for long probably isn't on the table anyway! ;)
Hey have fun with your kid and stay safe. Whatever decision you make will be fine.
I hate that term overthinking. I mean impulsivity got me in a lot of trouble.
I think the idea of doing for others also got me in a lot of trouble too.
What I can say is that I'm uncomfortable about something I don't do it. A coworker was leaving the store I work at the other day and was hugging people. What I did was to move to the other end of the store because I'm not that comfortable with hugging people. Before I would have agonized about that because I would have felt other people would notice.
Now I'm not that concerned about what other people notice I'm concerned about myself.
When I lived with the ex A he would drink and drive. I removed myself from situations where I might be with him drinking and driving. Indeed he drove erratically most of the time and I didn't remove myself from that bit I took the first step.
What I have learned in al anon is to have a plan be. If I have to be somewhere what am I going to do if something goes wrong or amiss. What is my back up plan? For me that particularly applies to social situations where people drink. I have huge boundaries and limits around alcoholics and people who are new in sobriety. It isn't anything about them its all about me. I have to protect myself and ensure my best interests are there. I have to be "there" for me and not "there" for anyone but me.
I can see that you're concerned about the relationship between your A and his son, but I'm not sure that staying home means that that relationship is disrupted. His relationship is about him relating to his son, rather than about you taking his son to this place or that place for him to see or show off. That is, the more meaninful relationship will be the one where he makes an effort rather than asking someone else to make an effort, in my view.
If I were in your shoes, the way I look at things, I would choose not to go. I would feel uncomfortable and worried about possible drunkenness. Even if he turns out not to be drunk, it's a realistic fear that he might be, and the anxiety about it is better avoided, in my book. Of course, I am more in-your-face that many people, but in my situation, if he asked why I wasn't coming, I'd say calmly, "I don't want to chance us seeing you drunk, it makes me feel uncomfortable, so I think it's better to stay home this time." The first few times I said this kind of thing, my A would get all red in the face arguing with me: "I'm never drunk! You're just paranoid! You're just trying to make me look bad! You accuse me all the time! Something's wrong with you!" Etc. etc. Sort of like a "My reality has to win!" argument. I just didn't engage. Now he just shrugs when I stay things like that. Even he says, "I won't be drunk!" I might say, "You might be or you might not be, I don't know, but the way I feel, it's not worth the risk to me." Then I go about my business. Everyone's situation is different so take what you like and leave the rest.
My thoughts are likely very much not in line and so believe me I don't have to make this decision and how I see this is a result of years of dealing with a very difficult process between my ex and our 3 sons.
I am in line with the "their relationship is none of my business". I understand the idea that dad should make the effort but I know a little about leagues and often they show up very early before the game and dragging kids with is not always allowed - especially if this involves coworkers so I am clearly guessing that son would not make it there without you? If this is wrong then I agree with putting the ownus on dad for getting son there. If however you are the only venue:
Kids are smart. I'm guessing that your son already knows dad has a drinking problem. Whether he has a term for it or not, whether it's been discussed or not, it's likely. My kids knew their dad's anger and treatment of me and them was wrong. He was probably one of the worst father figures for 15 years (oldest is about to be 16) just now trying to turn it around.
I spent a lot of time in court trying to protect them from him and keep them away from him. It failed. I had to learn through counseling to allow the kids to experience the dad they had. What did that involve? Helping them to understand that they cannot change their dad, it is not their fault how he acts sometimes and there is nothing they can do to stop him. Does that ring a bell for anyone here? 3 C's. This is true, this is a process I have been working through with them for 3 of the past 5 years.
It gave the kids the dignity of validating other's knew they were going through difficult things. It gave me an avenue to address concerns (most very real) without taking responsibility for my ex's "stuff". It has helped the kids to separate themselves from their dad's treatment of them - sometimes in the name of protection, we don't realize it creates an element of "secrets".
If your ex wasn't drinking, would you be willing to take your son to support his dad? For me I would have to remove the drinking from the equation, weigh the benefits and drawbacks and decide. I like the idea of cutting it short but I will say I do not like using the child as a pawn against dad. For me I would either go with son, stay until son was bored, asked to go, etc. OR set a time (we will stay 1 hour) OR not go. I would not punish dad (and son) by removing the child for drunkeness, because my kids would know exactly what I was doing even if I said nothing.
Last , my kids know their dad has anger management issues - keeping them away from an event doesn't mean they will never experience his wrath. Is the bowling alley the only time your son will ever see him drunk? I tolerate combined birthdays with my kids. My ex had it put in the mediation. The kids love it, it's the one time every year their mom and dad both celebrate something with them. It's been said to me often, why do I put up with that when I hate being around my ex, it's uncomfortable and sometimes unbearable. I do it because I can tolerate 3 days a year if it means a lot to my kids. And there have been some blow outs, in front of the kids, when I refused to put up with his demeanor towards the kids. So far, they still like that we do it.
This is a take it or leave it for certain. I suspect it is not "al-alon" in nature, I don't always adhere to everything I learn 100%. Every now and then I have to break something way down, evaluate the parts separately and then reconsider. I know for me I go into those shared birthdays apprehensive and aware I am purposely doing something NOT for me, NOT for my serenity - but because it's temporary and brings my kids joy. So in the end, I'm happy anyway.
Okie dokie. Its a tough decision no matter how you look at it. but you received some good ESH on it. Reading this thread reminded me of the relationship I have with my own son. Its no big secret on this board that I'm a double winner so I'd like to share a bit on this from the perspective of an A. I missed out on a lot over the years because I was so wrapped up in my disease that I had no time for what other people wanted or whether or not my son's feelings mattered. I cared only about myself. That's the underlying nature of alcoholism. Selishness and self-centeredness is the root of our problem. I made a joke once from the podium that sounded funny in my head but didn't sound so funny when I said it out loud. When I got together with my second wife and found out she had two teenage children living at home (a son and a daughter) I said well I already have a son so I already know how to say "Sorry I don't have time today." But then, the only people who "get" my jokes are the ones who made the same mistakes I did.
My son is in his thirties now and we still have a relationship today but it isn't the one it should be or the one I would like it to be. Its like that old song Cats in the Cradle. And if its anyone's fault, its mine. In retrospect, I hold no ill feelings toward my first wife for anything she did or didn't do where my son's well-being or safety was at risk. If I'd really wanted to show him love and respect, I would have been sober during those times he was around me. Maybe one day your A will recover and come to the realizations that I have. I have no way of knowing that. I only know my own story. If I could go back and do it again.......but I can't. If it was the other way around and my ex wife had been me, I would have done what she did, I would have done what was best for my son. Sometimes, we A's need to lose what's most valuable to us before we realize how to have it in the first place.
Probably wasn't much help, but it is what it is. Those in Al-anon who struggle as you do always have my love and support because you always gave me yours.
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Not all my days are priceless, but none of them are worthless, anymore.
