How Much Time You Got Buddy? - Al-Anon Family Group

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

How Much Time You Got Buddy?

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

I just posted this on the AA Board but I liked it so much I wanted to post it here.

I went for a walk yesterday to the corner store. I was going over some stuff in my head. I sponsor a woman who is not only an alcoholic but also a crack and hydromorphone addict. I can't really help her with that and have suggested she find an NA sponsor for that. I met her through her boyfriend who was a client of mine in the recovery house I work for. Unfortunately, I had to discharge him for using and since he was on a conditional, he got sent back to be incarcerated so she's not too thrilled with me right now. I sponsor another woman whose boyfriend is still using (doesn't anyone just drink anymore?). I hear he's quite abusive, sometimes makes her work the streets so she can make money so he can get high, she keeps leaving him but she always goes back and she keeps asking me what I think she should do and I keep telling her she doesn't want to hear what I think she should do. And then there's this other girl who is the ex-girlfriend of a guy I used to sponsor who was also a former client of mine. He is currently incarcerated - not my doing - and she tried to take her life last week because even though she knows she needs to move on and get past this, she still loves him and secretly hopes he will come to his senses and return to the wonderful man he once was. I just happened to text her before she checked out and managed to talk her out of it. Anyway, all this stuff is going through my head and I heard someone talking to me. It was a neighbour of mine out walking his dog. He asked me how my day was going and I was thinking, how much time do you got, buddy, cause I got a lot to say.

There was a time when I only sponsored alcoholics and they were all men. But I know times are changing and I try to be always honest open-minded and willing. I figure I don't just sponsor Catholics, I don't just sponsor whites, and I don't just sponsor straights, so why would I only sponsor men. if they want to get sober and they're not afraid to do the work, then I'm not afraid to sponsor them. I'm still not sure if I got older and wiser, or if I'm just brain dead.

My aren't I just a chatterbox tonight. Have a great day unless ya got other plans.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

All I got's today Wolfie...just this single moment that I've been working over and over and over trying to get better at as the next moment is coming. Its my moment with my HP and the other tools that were given to me free of charge by others who have done the same as I am now. I've got time to listen to others and am powerless over how much and then I know I'm not in this all by myself...this is a we program and I like that alot. With all the "We's" around I can get my story out beyond my HP and get some feedback, some hope if I listen, learn and practice. Best part of sponsorship for me is watching them do the work and when it works turn around and smile and cheer, "Hey this really does work when you work it".

Some time I talk to "others" with the same honesty and openess that I do with my sponsor and other members. I don't mention alcohol, alcoholic, alcoholism cause in the end its a human thingy.

My former sponsor use to tell me, "you don't have to like it...just do it."

You're trusted. (((hugs))) smile

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Both of you are an inspiration to listen to.

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

"have a great day, unless you have other plans.."

I LOVE THAT!

People don't just drink anymore, in my opinion, because the drug companies are eager to get their drugs into people's hands...here's a news story

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Painkiller-sales-soar-around-US-fuel-addiction-.html

then, once people get addicted, and their prescriptions run out..they turn to cheaper alternatives...the street value of heroin is often less than oxy's for example..

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Wolfie - Thank you for you service first of all... Sometimes I do see that for those of us with many sponsees or that work in the field, we get so used to seeing the sickness of others that is messes up our world view. Not saying this is the case for you but I do hope you are having time to interact with all sorts of people functioning at higher levels (pardon the pun).

I totally relate to what you say about sponsoring anyone that is willing to do the work and also about the overwhelming amount of people that come into the program (AA) cross addicted these days. It's sad.

Thanks again for all you do,

Mark

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

I appreciate all the input, especially from Hotrod. Recovery would be boring if everyone agreed with everyone else. Maybe someday we will all be equal. I guess it depends on the quality of sobriety the sponsor has when they take on the role of sponsorship and what their motives are when they do. Certainly there are many predators out there, both male and female, and lots of sponsors who are still very sick people. But I been a sponsor for 14 years and I have been sponsoring females as well as males for about 6 years. So far the only one I slept with is my wife. And thanks Mark, I sponsor some men with five years of sobriety, my sponsor (who is a woman but also my wife) has almost 15 years in AA and 30 in Alanon so she keeps me in line. My boss who is sort of a second sponsor to me has 35 years, so yeah I inter-act on many levels.

I'm glad I posted it too. ....to be continued

nmike · ~*Service Worker*~

We all need each other. I attend AA meetings as an Alanoner because there are no Alanon meetings close. I offer to hold a separate meeting in another room. I don't get many takers. So sometimes I take my readings have a meeting of one. I get alot of support from the AA's.

Thanks,
Nancy

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

I like how Betty puts it: I find that unconsciously, the nature of this disease in both male and female sponsees are try to play the opposite sex. Use the old manipulative tools to "get over,,con and do anything to have someone rescue , because they are UNIQUE. Since they are so original The RULES DO NOT apply.

I think it is much harder to pull the wool over another female's eyes - we girls know how we girls think; same for you boys, you won't be swayed by the doey-eyed affect of sorrow coming from another guy because you KNOW bs when you hear it. My ex is very good at playing the victim and getting female sympathy. It is much easier for me to get sympathy from male supporters - you guys can't help it, you rise to the rescuer knight in shining armour role; it is in your DNA to save us princesses from the dragons that threaten to destroy us.

I know of at least one severe A who would turn vicious on me in a second if I were to tell him point blank what I think he needs to hear - better to hear it from a member of the same gender so that he can't just blame my gender for "being such a meany".

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

"The quality of sobriety" statement in a Al-Anon mostly forum hits me sideways because I've always gone with "The quality of serenity" ever since I was aimed toward it. My AA fellows hardly ever mention the word "serenity" in the other room and several of the members have mentioned being taken by my ability to not be affected by people, places and things outside of our meeting atmosphere. Some have said "I want what you have" and after we do discovery that what they are talking about is serenity I usually tell them they can get it where I got it...the other room. I don't trust my Al-Anon serenity to AA...whatever the gender. It was my being born and raised in the disease and then carrying it throughout my life until I reached the doors of Al-Anon that erased it from my life. As I sit and watch inside of AA and listened too often "sobriety" is about not drinking for whatever period of time. We applaud the time...the quantity...and struggle with the quality with fear that the quantity will be lost if and when we "go back out". How I maintain my Serenity which I learned about and practice in Al-Anon and keep regardless of what is going on outside of me is what we deal with in sponsorship.

I'm a former multi-level behaviorist counselor for a large rehab and we were always alert to how the addict and alcoholic behaved...how they spoke, what they spoke about, how they chose to make their decisions and follow thru on them. I came into Al-Anon as a very oppositionally defiant person with another supportive personality. That stuff and a lot of other stuff had to be straightened out so that I wasn't swimming down stream when the more successful fish were swimming upstream.

How I see the picture for me is very important evidence of sanity and serenity. I can't put marriage to my sponsor and sponsorship together. It doesn't fit...for me from experience. And then I don't spend alot of time getting hooked by stuff that doesn't work for me.

((((hugs)))) smile

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Wolfie: "Times are changing..."

Well, society has made progress in recognizing EQUALITY among gender, race, and sexual orientation, that is true.

EQUALITY in recovery is similar - no one is superior/inferior to another. However.....

There is an abundance of scientific data proving that men and women are biologically wired differently. To not recognize this is not living in reality. A man does not, and simply cannot experience nor fully understand a woman, her experiences, or her instincts. In this program of recovery, WE ONLY share EXPERIENCE, strength and hope.

I cannot believe that the ONLY help available for a woman is a man, that God would ONLY send a man, that there is ABSOLUTELY no woman available to fulfill the role of sponsor! My Higher power has ALWAYS supported everything I needed and asked for....

I have chosen female sponsors who are the women I want to become. We identify with one another. And I would truly respect a man who would try to encourage a female newcomer to follow program suggestions and to TRUST in Higher power, to help them become the women they are meant to become.

I have male friendships in the fellowship that I cherish. I love em, but I have to say, my experience with MOST of them (not all) .... they want to "fix" me. Part of codependent thinking is rescuing and saving... and also, waiting to be rescued and saved.... by someone other than Higher power. It's called making others my Higher power....

That stuff is the whole problem. It feeds the disease.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

youre right. I deleted my comment. My apologies. I was out of line.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks Wolfie I deleted mine as well smile

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I see that there's a lot of controversy about people sponsoring others across genders. I'm going to leave that aside for the moment because, although I understand that that's a genuine issue to be discussed in the program, the heart of the original post came across as something else to me. To me it talked about what's going on behind all of our lives. It's like the saying, "Don't compare your insides to someone else's outsides." I always have the impression that my life has involved a lot of drama (and it has), and most other people have been floating through life calmly (and sometimes that's true, but often not). So when people say, "How's it going?" I say "Fine," but I feel like saying, "How much time have you got?" It makes me feel better to realize that there are a thousand dramas going on all the time. Not that I want others to be suffering, but that life is like that and I haven't been singled out by the finger of doom to go through a ton of nasty stuff. And that maybe there's a way to surf the drama and not take it so much to heart -- "Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." That's the kind of thing the post said to me.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

Thank you Mattie.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I value what Glad Lee stated - my opinions about sponsoring across genders comes from being gay and going to mostly gay meetings. For many gay individuals it is more distracting for them to have a same sex sponsor. Hence, I have seen opposite sex sponsors actually work better in those cases.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

Yes, I sponsor a few gays and we had this conversation not long ago, that a gay man is simply not interested in a woman and a gay woman is simply not interested in a male. On a sexual level. Whereas a straight woman, who although she is aware that the sponsorship is not about sex, she may occasionally make comments or do the body language things that have always worked so well with getting other men to do what she wants. And not saying its just a woman who does that. Men are guilty too. I am aware that an alcoholic or someone who is affected by someone's alcoholism is sick. They are vulnerable and impressionable and often lonely, feeling unloved and not very pretty or handsome as the case may be and any attention from a member of the opposite sex is appreciated.

John A. from Dallas Texas, an oldtimer in AA once told a story that an elderly woman in his group took him under her wing and showed him how to work the steps. I think her name was Ethel. She even said "I'll be your girlfriend and we'll go to meetings and functions together, but don't ever think I'm that kind of girl." A few months ago I said a similar thing to a woman I sponsor. I said we won't hold hands, we won't slow dance in the moonlight, I'll never kiss you or try to have sex with you, but until you're better I'm your boyfriend and if anyone ever wants to date you, they'll have to go through me first. Of course, I asked my wife's permission first. Every day she sends me a text and calls me her handsome boyfriend. We both know that neither of those words are true. She also tells me daily that she loves me and that I have taught her that saying I love you does not always mean I want to have sex with you.

I have been listening to everything the older (sorry more senior members) are saying and even though it doesn't seem that way sometimes, I value what you say. And I love you all.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Again

I would like to ask Mark and Bernie if you are talking about AA Meetings or Alanon Meetings.

I have sponsored many gay female alanon members and have never felt manipulated or uncomfortable around the exchange of information

I am just trying to determine if this is because I live in a huge very Liberal City where a person sexual preference does not exclude them from interacting with each other.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

I am talking about both. I attend more online alanon because there isn't much face to face here. And we only have one meeting that I know of...okay this isn't gong to sound right, but its how they describe their meeting...where gays and lesbians are welcome. In my opinion, gays are welcome at any meeting. I have a little thing I say whenever I talk about tradition three, that we dont care if youre tall, short, pink, brown, straight, gay, what kind of a car you drive or who you voted for last year, if there's a problem of alcoholism in a family or friend youre welcome to attend this meeting. A lot of times I never know a sponsee is gay until they tell me.

I don't like labels. because once we label some one or some thing, we stop seeing the person and only see the label we've attached. Obviously I'm guilty of doing it sometimes but usually only in a discussion like this. I try to treat everyone the same.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

this whole thread has actually been very helpful. I am learning more about how to understand all viewpoints, not just my own. Its nice to know I'm still teachable.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi

Thanks Bernie

I agree. Exchanging ideas is a true gift of this program,

In my family of origin we all had to agree We had to like the same people, hate the same people, vote for the sme party etc If we did not we were gossiped about and laughed at.

What a great freedom it is to be able to disagree and explore other ideas.

Thanks

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

What a great topic.

I can just speak for myself that it was an important exercise for me to connect with another female. All my life I was convinced 99% of women could not be trusted because they were all catty gossips, unpredictable, and downright mean-spirited.

Of course I stuck with mostly having male friends. I didn't get that cattiness I dreaded from them. But I also got to feel rather powerful - I could see how saying the right thing, looking the right way, etc. could get the right kind of responses out of them if I put my mind to it.

I don't think I would have grown the way I have if I'd taken on a male sponsor. Oh, I almost considered it at the beginning. What really saved me from that route was that I knew if I took a male sponsor my AH at the time would have blown a gasket, so out of respect for my AH, I asked a woman instead.

I don't know that there's any right or wrong way. I remain convinced that AA isn't the ONLY path to sobriety, either. It's certainly a damn good way, of course. But my experience with my HP is that my HP does his/her miracles in many unexpected ways and I shouldn't limit myself to thinking there's only one perfect way. (If I'd stuck to that thinking, I'd never have asked a woman to sponsor me!)

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

thanks for your comment Aloha

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.