Hi. - Al-Anon Family Group

GeneralLee · Member

Hi.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi General Lee

Glad you found Miracles in Progress and I appreciate your reaching out.

It cetainly sounds as if you have handled your situation with courage and dignity. As you know, alcoholism is a destructive progressive disease over which we have no control.

That being said there is help and hope for you and your family.

Please search out alanon face to face meetings in your community Help with finding local meetings near where you live may be found at the following web site:http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html Or call: 1-888-4alanon When you move back home there will be meetings there as well

On this Board as in alanon meetings we break the isolation that is a result of living with this disease. Attending meetings with others who understand as few others can, gave me new constructive tools to deal with this disease. Our old tools of arguing, pleading, negotiating, promises do not work. Alanon gave me tools to replace these actions with responses that were constructive and did work

I recognize the arguing over past actions , This kept me living in the past and unable to move forward, Alanon suggest that we leave the past in the past.-- refuse to discuss past actions over which we have no power to change ---- learn the leson of the action being discussed ---and not engage any further in useless discussions.

Please keep coming back ner and sharing--- You and your family are worth it.

-- Edited by hotrod on Saturday 17th of March 2012 09:07:12 AM

GeneralLee · Member

I want to go to a face to face alanon meeting. I brought that up back when she got the DUI. She had quit for about 2 weeks after the DUI and then decided to start drinking again. Well, same thing, about 1/3 to 1/2 of a 1.75 L bottle a night complete with vomiting. She is adamantly opposed to alanon meetings for me. I did tell her that if she started drinking again and that if it is a problem then i will start going to alanon.

Maybe its time that i started going. But her reaction will be angry and possibly violent when i break the news to her that I am going to go and that means she will have to put the kids to bed on that night.

I will consider going and I will pray about it. :(

Oh, on the topic of prayer - in the midst of the problems she was having, she convinced a Deacon and his wife that I was the problem... And this deacon and his wife after she left me and stayed with them a few weeks ago AND after they berated me for leaving with the kids are no longer welcome figures in my life or in the life of my kids. Nevermind taht they are godparents for 2 of the kids.

Wife refuses to go to mass anywhere but at THAT church so we have had to quit going to mass. I can't go because she will get livid angry and go on the 'you're just so holier than thou' kick.

Ugh. THis sucks. Better or worse and this is the worse part. Still, divorce is not an option. But if she gets another DUI (which I believe will happen if she doesn't quit drinking completely), she knows she is on her own with a public defender or a lawyer who will do it for free.

and as I am sure may of you know - no lawyer = jail time with a DUI. Out here, if she gets caught again with teh kids in the car, she will do 6 months easily as kids in car + any amount of alcohol (the 'legal limit' is a myth in Connecticut - 0.01 = dui even for adults)... I digress. 0.01 BAC = DUI (the legal limit is a myth). So she will end up screwing up and getting a DUI with kids in the car (again) and this time there will be a felony conviction she can't escape.

thank you for your brave words of encouragement.

-- Edited by GeneralLee on Saturday 17th of March 2012 12:46:52 AM

GeneralLee · Member

Oh, and she is angry over us moving back to the South ( we curretly live in new england). We are moving back to the South because honestly out here we have been berated by everyone for being Catholic, for having 4 kids, and honestly... for being Southern. My kid gets picked on in school for her Southern accent, i have had people make comments after meeting me about sleeping with cousins and about all Southerners being stupid... so yea, we are moving back home where we are accepted.

Overcome · Senior Member

General Lee,

Wow, you've been through a lot! You must really love your wife to have stayed with her this long. I appaude you for getting your children and yourself to somewhere safe after she got out of the mental hospital. I too had to find a safe house when my daughter's dad had a mental breakdown in 1998 after trying to deal with a past of sexual abuse, when he was a child, by his dad who was alcoholic. I didn't leave my husband at that time because I didn't love him, I seperated from him because it was not safe.

In alanon, we do not give advice, just share our expereince, strength and hope. Whether you stay with your wife or leave is up to you. And seperations aren't always permanent, just a way to clear our mind. I quote a line out of an alanon book, From Survival to Recovery, on the page entitled: A Special Word to Anyone Confronted with Violence.

"But for those of us facing violent, potentially life-threatening situations may have to make immediate choices to ensure safety for ourselves and our children."

I believe that we also have to remember that alcoholism is a disease and that the person suffering from it is not rational. They are in a lot of pain and often are afraid to get help. But they have to reach their bottom and come to a place where they are ready to ask for help. Your wife may or may not be at that place yet. The hard part for us is learning the 3 C's: we didn't Cause it, we can't Cure it and we can't Control it.

I am so glad you came back to this site, it is a good place to get started. Read other shares on the board and come to a MIP meeting if you can, but most importantly get yourself plugged in to a local f2f alanon group where you're at... that's your best resource. Keep coming back here and sharing and hang in there, we have all been where you are in one way or another. There is hope. Just remember: One Day at a Time.

Blessings General Lee!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

As is often the case when a person just starts coming to alanon, they are locked in a pattern of reacting to the elephant in the room. You two are arguing over all sorts of things that are byproducts of the simple fact that she is an alcoholic. Her arguments about you taking the kids and you not going to alanon and you being the boss (blah blah)....She is very very much in denial and not able to see that it's not all about her. It's about her alcoholism. To whatever extent that you can convince her that the choices you made were not because you don't love her (they were because you cant stand alcoholism) that will help. Detachment is a tool and right now you are not allowing yourself and she is not allowing you to detach from her alcoholism. Boundaries are a must....especially since divorce is not an option and you need to protect your kids from the damage that she could cause.

When it comes to drinking, her alcoholism just is - Why even argue about it? Alanon meetings will help you a lot to develop these tools for letting her own her disease and getting off the merry go round of blame. When issues arise that are like 90 percent due to her drinking - arguing about those issues is futile also. You left with the kids because of her alcoholism and that is it. Keep handing her disease back to her and do not be distracted by side issues or excuses. She can make the choice to go into treatment but the more you argue about excuses for why she feels you are evil and why she feels so victimized - that is falling into the trap of an active alcoholic that wants to keep the focus off themself and their drinking.

You do not have an easy task ahead of you. I really feel for you as I am sure this is not what you envisioned when you married her.

prayers for you and your family,

Mark

**I have to add a disclaimer. I don't mean to say "You should do this" or "You should do that" but your post does sort of have an urgent tone to it and I tend to respond to that sounding more like I am telling you what to do than suggesting. Obviously this is all up to you and I am not the end all source of info. These are just my insights and suggestions.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 17th of March 2012 09:45:32 AM

-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 17th of March 2012 11:13:51 AM

Tracy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi and welcome,

sound like you have come to the right place for YOU!!

I hope you do go to a face to face meeting they are amazing. It is lovely to sit in a room with people who really understand what you are living with. I used to run around telling family and friends all the stuff that was happening and they just thought I was as nuts as him and should just leave.

In al anon no one will tell you what to do they just share their experinces and how al anon has helped them their is hope your life can change for the better. It is up to you. the alcoholic needs help that is up to them to find. however Alcoholism is a family illness it impacts everyone around the drinker, hope you can find the strength to reach out even further and attend a meeting.

hugs tracy xx

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome General Lee,

Alcoholism is a baffling and cunning disease. In my experience it will also use every manipulating tool available to get what it wants out of anyone ... the alcoholic and everyone near by. As i read your post all I could think about was how long it took me to feel confident that when I made decisions I was making the best decisions for myself and anyone in my care. Two AlAnon tools really helped me with this, although it seems simple now it took a very long time to pull out of the circle of self doubt I was in. If you have the time and inclination check out some writings that deal with

JADE - do not justify,argue, defend or explain
What others think of me is none of my business
and
Take care of you

I hope you are able to attend face to face meetings. There is a support system out there for you :)

Jen

danni · Senior Member

Welcome back! I, too, encourage you to try the face to face meetings. I was worried about my AH's reaction, and I am fortunate that he (surprisingly) was and is supportive of my going, even though he still drinks sometimes. I reached a place, however, where I felt so miserable and alone that I had to go, regardless of how he would react. It helped me IMMENSELY just making the decision to go, even if it made him angry. That single step of putting my well being over fear of his feelings made a huge shift in me and in the dynamic in our marriage. There are daytime meetings and some with child care. Sending you support.

Michelle814 · ~*Service Worker*~

First, Im a northerner and on behalf of northerners, I apologize that people treated you that way. I have many southern friends and northern friends who chose to move south. I don't think that way about southerners.

You already got ALOT of ESH! I will just tell you what I know and that is that Al-Anon has been my saving grace. I highly suggest you get to face to face meetings ASAP. read as much literature as you can get your paws on, How Al-Anon Works was incredible and its only 5.00.

The three C's never get old for me. You did NOT CAUSE this!! You CANNOT CURE this!!! You CANNOT CONTROL this!!! You can, however, make sure your kids are safe, protect them, and take care of yourself and them. You sound like a wonderful husband and father.

Keep Coming Back.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am sorry you and your children are dealing with this. I do hope you find face to face Al-anon meetings and a sponsor in time. I also recommend the book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews. I am sending you love and support!

ilovedogs · ~*Service Worker*~

Agreeing with everyone here. One thing about the driving drunk with the kids in the car: that was my biggest issue with my AH. He is currently facing his first DUI, his BAC was .22 and it is considered a Super Extreme DUI here in AZ and will probably require 45 days with work release in county jail. Ever see shows on Sheriff Joe Arpaio and how he makes inmates sleep in tents(called tent city) and wear pink underwear? Well, that's where my AH may be going, doesn't sound fun to me! I'm actually surprised that she won't be doing any jail time if her BAC was that high.

The night that my AH got the DUI I was sitting on the fence about whether I should call 911 and report him as a drunk driver. If he had our son in the car, I know I would have called for sure. You can protect your kids even if it means punishment by law for her. At some point she will hit her bottom, in the mean time you need to take care of you and the kids. Al Anon will help you do that. Oh, and if you have anyone under the age of 15 in the car with you while being drunk here in AZ, I believe it's an automatic felony, requires longer jail times, and HUGE court fees and fines. They take it very seriously out here! Protecting our kids should be our first priority as the sober parent!

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

I was once trapped in a very difficult situation with an alcoholic/addict so I can understand much of your fear and anger.

I also had to deal with significant health issues (asthma among others) and I can understand that you this aggravates you tremendously.

The now ex A absolutely felt entitled to every penny I had as well as every moment of attention in my life. When I look at how much I shored him up and for how long I am astonished. I know that coming here and sharing about what was real in my life was so so key in my coming to terms with it.

Al anon can indeed help you even in this incredibly difficult situation.

I learned in al anon not to react/over react. Of course I slip and slide on that one a great deal. None of us are perfect.

The ex A felt envious of everything I had, every breath I took it seemed. That is what is so awful about that disease the over involvement, the accusations, the arguments. Learning not to argue was so so key for me.

Leaving the ex A was not an option for me for a long time. There were significant obstacles, money, health, our belongings (needless to say they were intertwined, our cars, our home, our pets). Unraveling all that took time.

I also felt incredibly committed to the relationship. I felt leaving him was an example of how I failed. I saw his good qualities and didn't evaluate that his behavior and actions were getting more and more self destructive. For me it was like a Ponzi scheme, the more I put in the harder it was to let go and stop giving.

I lived in hate, fear and trepidation and I had an absolute sense of impending doom. I also felt absolutely lost in other people's judgements and accusations. The ex A could manipulate and convince so many people that the problem was always me. He did that really really well and I was always stymied and flabbergasted and then somehow convinced that it was me rather than a disease which I had no control over.

As much as the alcoholism affected him it got to me too. I felt absolutely defeated to the point I was suicidal. The thing that saved me was to start working on me and to start looking for support not in the me versus him category but in the notion that I needed help.

For me personally the legal system, the police the courts did not stop the ex A from drinking and using. The face he never killed anyone while out driving was a miracle. He had suspended licenses all the time nothing but nothing stopped him from driving. I know for certain there were times when he probably had the car impounded. All that stuff absolutely was like water off his back.

I kept waiting, hoping, remonstrating and arguing with him trying to make him responsible. I could not get to that alcoholism had taken that away from him.

I'm so glad you are here. One resource I would really recommend for you is to get the book Getting them Sober they are a wonderful resource in the circular thinking that comes with being around an alcoholic active in their disease. The other resource is of course this room, you can come here anytime. There is a chat room. People here won't judge, condem or pit you against your wife. They can help.

My prayers are with you.

Maresie.

Carla042 · Veteran Member

Welcome General Lee, I'm glad you found us...I remember similar chaos in my own past with an alcoholic spouse...I can share that when I finally got to alanon I too was exhausted and overwhelmed, but through the love and support of the folks here sharing their own experience,strength and hope and those in my face to face meetings things did get better, a little at a time...once I was able to put my focus on me and recovering from the effects this disease had on me, I started to "come back" from what felt like the dead...and at the time I had 3 kids all under the age of 12, so they too kept it real for me...I finally was able to "hear" their side of things...they tried to talk yr prior and I didn't get it....I was so wrapped up in their dads disease that I wasn't there for them emotionally...it is a family disease and it does affect the family as a unit...very grateful for the love I found and continue to fine here, not judgement...learning more everyday...progress not perfection, 11 yrs later..one min at a time for me again these days, keep coming back,it does get better!

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello --

I am currently ending a 30 year marriage because of addiction..and I am SO sorry you have found New England intolerant...there are pockets of stupidness everywhere....

In my opinion, you can calmly assert your responsibilities as a parent...to protect your children from harm.

My soon to be ex thinks I am evil incarnate. I breathalyze him before the kids can go with him. He currently is living with other family members (because he has no where to live)...so I worry less about my kids' well being ...because his visits are, by default, supervised, and there are other family members around..my son is 15 I have talked to him and his brother about what to do if dad tries to drive drunk with them in the car. We have a safety plan in place. If they were young, and if he had them unsupervised, I would probably take steps to arrange supervised visits....

For me to stay sane I have to say SAFETY FIRST. When it comes to my kids, the momma lion comes out and I will do whatever it takes to protect them.

If your kids were facing another kind of danger, you would probably not think twice about how to protect them from it...but because the source of the danger is a parent, it is more difficult (it tears me up).

This is a hard road..so seek support from your church, alanon, and friends who get it...

Hang in there...ONE DAY AT A TIME (and if that feels like too much, one HOUR at a time)

GeneralLee · Member

Sorry it took so long to reply. But then, you know that I am here covertly so I have to snag time to read when I can.

Well, she ran out of booze last night. This is the end of a 3 1.75 liters in 9 days stint. So she naturally has some withdrawal symptoms (nausea, irritable, etc).

A few clarifications - when i left in December, she was on sleeping pills and nyquil, not booze. However lets be honest, it was just swapping booze for nyquil and sleeping pills. And the medical evidence about diphenhyrdamine tanking the kidneys is poor but intriguing. I am fairly certain she did some permanent damage to her endocrine system with 6 weeks of 25-50 sleeping pills a day.

To the point of everyone here - yes, you are right, I have to remember the 3 C's and the fact that I did what was best for HER and the kids by leaving. SHe was in a mental hospital when I left and i left b/c she was about to be released and she was still spitting angry. Had I been home when she arrived and went back on sleeping pills, nyquil, possibly booze, and the xanax her croaking doctor gives her, then she would have been arrested for domestic violence.

ilovedogs --- odds are on the 1st offense he will be fine on one great united state condition - that he gets a lawyer. All a lawyer does is show up in court and prove by his presence that you have paid dearly financially. Thats all the courts want to see. Even the 'treatment' things you may get sent to are nothing but buddy programs with the court administration and are designed to just make the public think the government is doing something. My wife got charged with 4 felony counts of child endangerment at 0.241 BAC (i thought it was just 0.21 but it was 0.241 - 3x legal limit of 0.08). She got off of the felonies in exchange for 2 years of very, very light probation (no probation officer, just call if you move). But if you do it with a public defender or on your own, then yes, there will be jail time. Its how the court systems work and its not pretty. I am reminded of some lines from a song I like:

"A judge and a lawyer,
Hey legal man...
You've got a serial killer on the stand....
And if the price is right,
He'll walk free today...
Yea, I can smell bull___ from a mile away..."

Its sad, but a very, VERY true fact that you have to have a lawyer to get a lighter sentence.

Government and sanctions just don't stop some drunks, they really don't.

And as far as intolerant yankees, yes, they are pockets of stupidity everywhere. I still wish the folks out here the best wehn I leave.

Its refreshing to meet others who cope with these issues and to realize that I am not crazy.

With warmest wishes I want to thank everyone on this thread for their comments. Very, very sincerly, ya'll, thanks. =)

-- Edited by GeneralLee on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 11:50:34 AM

-- Edited by GeneralLee on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 11:56:56 AM

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