The material presented
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My favorite and I are both codependents and adult children. I have not been able to be close to for years because we're both sick, basically. I am also an alcoholic. I have stayed sober for years and have done an inordinate amount of hard work on myself in AA and have come out of denial abuot being the scapegoat in my family. My depression around that until recently when I really started to heal has landed me in psychiatric hospitals and having suicide attempts. So like all of us, I must care for myself.
I have helped this relative as much as I can and told her about Alanon a number of times but she's not ready to go yet I guess, and that's ok. I feel she is almost there.
She is such a sweetheart and I love her so much, but she and her whole family are extremely passive-aggressive towards me. Even though I don't see her anymore we email and are on Facebook together. She has said very hurtful things to me but more recently it's smaller things like withholding return emails, etc. Sadly, my gut hasn't trusted her for years. Yesterday she posted something on her Facebook wall that she had gone to a place that I have an extremely painful history at, along with photos, etc. Then she Facebook messaged me to tell me she had been there. I blocked her from my page.
She sent me a regular email saying "Where did you go, I can't find you on FB." Interesting she would be looking for me when usually it takes her days to return Facebook messages. Of course to this minute I question myself...
I think it's important for me to trust myself and work through the guilt of setting boundaries with her (and her whole family, as much as I love them.) If I can't do this with my own family I fear I won't be able to do it in my own adult life.
Am I being too hard on her? Should I lower my pride and tolerate her and just say, "So what?" Should I allow her to view my Facebook page and keep her on there?
I'm not sure there are any hard and fast "shoulds" out there -- you have to take care of yourself, whatever form that takes. I am reminded of the Al-Anon saying "Say what you mean, mean what you say and don't say it mean." For myself, I know that when people change toward me and I don't understand why, it's very confusing. So for me it would help if the person said something like, "Some things are bringing up hard feelings in me and I'm going to retreat and take care of myself right now" or something like that. However, there are many people where if you said that to them, they'd start arguing and creating drama and trying to suck you into a big emotional mess of turmoil. For those people, sometimes the best way to take care of ourselves is just to draw our boundaries quietly and stay steadfast, maybe with a small note, "Engaged in other things right now," maybe with nothing said at all. Every situation is different. So like I say, I don't see there being any "should" in situations like this. Maybe you mean, "What is the healthy thing to do here?" Again you will know what way best preserves your serenity while remaining kind. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is not to say anything, so the situation doesn't get out of hand. This sounds like a chance to practice using the tools of recovery. We get so many chances, don't we?!
I try and give people the benefit of the doubt until they are outright rude or mean to me. I don't deal in passive aggressive much (though I suppose I act that way myself sometimes). I can't be bothered with assuming anyone has sneaky motives or is out to get me.
While I do get frustrated with people and want to change them, I simply do not have those trust issues. Like Mattie said, you have to be true to yourself and there are no "shoulds" but all the wondering about other people trying to hurt you and why they did this and that has you in a victim role and it has you making assumptions about them (sometimes those may be true and sometimes not). It's not a fun place to be though.
Regarding "painful places," I prefer not to cling to memories of places that are "painful" Yes, I remember getting strangled one time in the ocean by my alcoholic uncle, but I don't get mad at people who post pictures of the ocean and I like the ocean. I guess what I am saying is that situations are challenging for me....relationships are challenging. Places are neutral and any "pain" I ascribe to a place is self-imposed and it's cuz I want to hold on to pain. I only suggest giving the pain of those "places" away to your HP. Recovery is about freedom from the bondage of self - That baggage is keeping you down.
Not to minimize whatever it is you have been through - Only wanting you to be as free as you can to enjoy each day and to enjoy people too.
And don't forget that you can always decide later to do the exact opposite of whatever it is that you are doing today. The basic AlAnon text is to take care of yourself. If today you need to get some space between yourself and whoever, then in a few weeks, a month, you can decide that you would like to test the waters and go out for coffee with that same person. You do not need to make any "forever" rules for yourself. You just need to take care of yourself today. Boundaries are movable. Maybe you will love being free of that black cloud hanging over your life. Maybe you will miss them so much that you will tolerate the black cloud. Only you can decide, and every day is a different day.
Mattie, Kindness goes a long way but as you alluded to, there are certain people with whim it's a waste of time to "speak up" to or say anything anymore. I believe i have to let her go, and frankly I'm preparing to detach from the rest of my entire family for my own healing - at least for a while. Everyone will ahve to find someone else to get relief from. I ask myself this: "If I behaved like that towards someone year after year, would I expect them to want to be around me?" No way.
Pinkchip, My discernment is pretty good. She knows exactly what she's doing by bringing it up, but my history with the "place" is actually no longer painful to me, I've worked through it. What I'm NOT ok with is that she would TRY to hurt me in the ways she does. At some point we have to stop being victim and act in a mature way. I feel guilty but at the same time I feel like I am taking care of myself.
Maryjane, I was thinking the same thing about boundaries, and these responses from you all are exactly why I came to this board. To get real Alanon language and suggestions. Thanks.
Aloha Working...I do the program for me. I do it to fulfill my needs and not because of anyone else. If I am feeling negative about happenings in my life...whatever or whoever I am responsible for feeling those feelins or thinking those thoughts. When that happens for me I detach...step away...step back and move toward happier, healthier and more balanced events without looking over my shoulder to see if I can reattach to the situation at sometime or another. I let it go...I have no control...and I am powerless so I detach. I don't like holding others responsible for my happiness or sadness or peace of mind and serenity...If I find myself doing that then in many ways I must admit that I am victimizing myself, leaving myself subject to others power and control even when they don't know it.
Detachment for me is Al-Anon art work. It is masterful behavior with my sanity, peace of mind and serenity as the consequence. When I detach from people, places and things which are disturbing my mind, body, spirit and emotions just like alcoholism and addict did I get more God time more of what I desire...sound mind, stable spirit, balanced emotions and a healthy feeling body.
The slogan for me which supports detachment is "Live and Let live"...Live my own life as I best want to and allow others to live theirs as they choose without my judgement, direction, control or critique. "Let go and Let God" allows me to turn it and them over to a Power Greater than myself which can handle what I cannot. "Mind my own business" is self explanatory. The prayer which helps me detach is the 3rd step prayer... which is about HP and me and HP being in command.
Detachment isn't, for me, a special occasion tool it is a recovery behavior to be carried at all time and worked at all times. I am not in control. I am not HP. I am not responsible for someone elses peace of mind and serenity and no one else is responsible for mine.
One of my issues with codependency is that when people treat me badly, I think that somehow it was my fault, OR that I must immediately DO something to fix the situation.
What I'm learning is all about step 1. I can't change other people, I"m powerless. Yes maybe I "should" be able to have a healthy relationship with everyone...but truth is...some people are just TOXIC. I can't change that, no matter how hard I try.
I do not have to lecture them and teach them to be different, because I am SO right (how's that for arrogance). I do not have to go into long explanations about why they are the way they are. Its none of my business.
Letting go has been a HUGE gift for me in terms of serenity.
When I try to crawl into someone else's head to find out what they are thinking and what their motives are for doing things they do, I can find myself going around in circles, getting dizzy and finally completely lost. I'm a pretty straightforward person these days thanks to Alanon. I can Let it begin with me. There's no reason to speculate about another person these days. I just ask them my question without any innuendo. I can trust that I will be ok whatever answer I receive from that other person. I may feel hurt or disappointed but my higher power who is always present in my life will continue to offer love and acceptance without any conditions.
I would gently suggest that you try to not give your power away to this situation. Your family member may or may not have mean't harm when sending the pictures and email to you. Sometimes people just do thoughtless things. Looking at past actions of a person can help me. Is this the usual behavior of the person. Was it perhaps an innocent mistake. Am I strong enough in my recovery that I can be honest and communicate about my feelings about how their words or actions without prejudgement of them? Sometimes I can react first and ask questions later. Some things are such strong triggers for me so I truly relate to your post. When I've calmed down, taken a breath, chatted with my hp a bit, I'm more ready to reason things out.
Recently, my "favorite" removed himself from fb. It felt too hurtful to read things from family members that were left to interpretation. Personally, I'm not a fan of fb but I understand that some people love it. Pics can be attached through email and I like someone taking time to communicate with me personally if they are interested and vise versa. I think fb lets people post their life as they either wish it was or imagine it to be sometimes. I find it hard to take that kind of thing too seriously. To me, it's just not reality.
You'll come to your own answers as to what you want to do about your fb account and this action of your family member. I'm working at making more "in person" friends. That is my goal. In person Alanon, is where I've found some very nice and safe friendships. I am sorry for the pain you are feeling right now. Hugs. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I guess the nice thing for me to remember is that boundaries are for Me .. not so much anyother .. they are for me when I'm "feeling the "effects of alcoholism or another's thinking and behavior and then i have to ask myself to what level am i feeling this .. ? if it is robbing me of my dignity it's time for me to detach from my need to fix this person, or maybe my need to feel my own inner peace, or maybe my need to end my if onlys .. boundaries don't have to be rigid in that what i can handle today might be more than what I can handle tomorrow .. if i love this person, i don't have to cut them out as in forever .. i can just detach with love by saying it like it is (for me) .. an example is .. i just went for coffee with my xab and his mother .. crazy she's even in town .. she's supposed to be dying and never able to fly back here to the state i live in again .. go figure .. and what a surprise to see her come in town ... anyway while we were having coffee .. she said to me quote .. "yeah he's doing really good, he's lost 82 pounds .. (our daughter and her friend were at the table) i mentioned "that's great !! if he's losing it the right way by eating healthy and exercising .. she immediately shot back with "he's drug free and being tested." the insanity in this is that he's Not drug free .. he's on a legal substance that She herself buys for him that doesn't show up in UAs .. (she knows this and it would be insanity on my part to try to force her to admit it) I then mentioned to her there are certain subjects that don't need to be brought up with an 8 year old and her friend at the table .. (my daughter doesn't know this part of his life so much yet, she doesn't need to be filled with fear and worry for the adults, etc) she said then don't bring it up .. i said .. I didn't and the other meaning behind my sentence was that he had thought of losing it by gastric bypass .. i was glad he chose not to go that route even if it's successful for many .. when she went to pursue it .. the girls had gone to the bubblegum machine .. I ended my part before it even began by saying I needed to step outside for a minute but that I would hurry so she didn't have to sit at the table too long alone .. (the love part) With love being an action (Not always a feeling, whether it was felt or Not .. this was me loving us both) .. had I of stayed it might have been harmful .. the 2nd time she went to talk and the girls had left she had said .. Yeah he's Finally got a life now .. Implying he didn't have one with me .. (because I couldn't accept his addiction and unfortunately tried to control it by justifying my genuine care) Recognising her resentments I could only respond with if he's living his life for the better and making changes for the better .. then that's great .. I always wanted him to be happy, etc.. and I'm glad to hear it .. she began to go into more and again I needed to excuse myself But after detaching a few minutes, I came back kind .. My point is the love part for Me is to only respond when necessary .. in short when she does something offensive or critical .. I either walk away today or I change the subject repeatedly if necessary by not even answering that which I know is pure insanity .. I never could have done this in the past But in doing it when I need it for me .. I keep my dignity, sanity, and serenity .. And I take back my power their cruel words can attempt to rob me of .. I could never do this without alanon and others in the fellowship.. very greatful for this .. if my boundaries I set are attempts to change others' behaviors or thoughts or carry expectations they are only a form of self deceipt through sabatoge (in my own honest experience) .. I still catch myself doing that from time to time but then I get to a face to face meeting .. It's never easy but no situation is ever hopeless .. that part of our thinking we might step into here and there is nothing more than an illusion and part of the fantasy survival of our own effects of the isms .. through thinking and behavior .. the love was also extended by me by wishing her a safe drive home, etc.. and honesty to the degree of it was nice to see her, but that if i seemed distant it is because her dad (her son) had cancelled his previous last 3 visits but with her in town has since rung my phone off the hook with over 20 calls in one weekend. I told her I didn't like the way things were done by them but that I was greatful he was able to visit with her and that she would have to understand that under the circumstances I was doing the best I could .. when she went to expand I didn't respond; I changed the subject because by loving me again through action there was no way I was going to let her begin to tell me things weren't the way they are .. I walked away with my serenity cut her off and told her again .. i'm genuinely glad she's feeling better, etc.. and that was that .. keep sharing . the solutions will come for you .. the answer for us all is to keep reasoning things through, showing up and listening to what we hear through others experience in order to gain continual strength and hope !! much serenity your way !!
Tiredtonight, Thanks for your post. This person's history has been the same manipulation for years and I really have no business having her on my FB page. There's no reason for it.
She gets the heave ho then - Don't look back and find friends that compliment you to celebrate your life with. Sounds like you have every reason not to be involved with her. Sometimes I wonder if we caretaking types were born to feel the guilt that others simply lack. You don't need to feel bad about not wanting to be friends with someone any more.
I dont' have much more to add that hasn't already been said. What I have gleaned from this and many other posts recently is the power of facebook. Its almost like it is considered to be a 'real' relationship. I am not replying just to you as an individual, this is a general observation.
I have had experiences where I have 'ignored' someone on facebook for a couple of days and not answered a message or re-commented on a photo or a post. That person got angry at me and said I was no kind of friend or whatever..... I thought wow... this is just a computer program game kind of thing.
I figure, if they really wanted to tell me something... they would get hold of me personally some how.
Now I am a person that gets onto facebook several times a day. I go on for a couple of minutes, look at updated status' etc and mostly, to see what my family are doing that all live very far away from me. I dont' always comment, or reply. Sometimes I haven't even noticed there is a message. Very often, I will send a message that just says.. hi.. thinking of you.. if I don't get a response... then it doesn't matter. I didnt' send it for that, I sent it to say hi.
Anyway... I am probably right off the mark here but I do think as a society... we put waaaaaay too much emphasis on what happens on the 'virtual reality' of facebook friendships. Who is our 'friend' and who isn't by our status on their facebook page.
I do hope you work things out in the best way possible for your recovery.
