my point is. we need each other...and it's important to care about others..where it becomes problematic is when being "other focused" consumes us...has us neglecting our own needs and issues...etc...

I became so "other focused" that when someone asks me now what I want ...I really can't answer the question!

So how do we strike that balance --- between being a caring compasionate supportive person...and losing ourselves (distracting ourselves?) with others...

HOw do we care for and care about others...and stay grounded? hmmm

"I can't change other people. How much does this suck?" LOL I think this is where we are reminded that we are not HP.

We can make a difference. We can be a positive presence.

I knew that during my conversation with my AH the other night that even as encouraging as that was, his choosing to pursue the information is up to him. I told him I stand beside you but I'm not doing this for you. However, I would really love to have him there signed sealed and delivered.

You can't change other people, but you can be an example. The other thing you can do is detach. I think it was yesterday I saw the slogan for detach, Don't Even Think About Changing Him/or Her. We can't change other people but in what you do you can ask the right questions and provide the right direction for thought that helps others figure out whatever it is that brought them to you in the first place!

Sending support!

I felt compelled to reply to you Mark because I know how other peoples behaviours have affected me and how I have somehow been able to leave that more with them these days than take it oh so personly, for me I have had to work real hard on myself and stop thinking I know what is best for anyone my goodness I am even unable to do that for myself when I run on my own free will, so the thing I tell myself is, it is none of my buisiness to try and change anyone not my job or my responsibility, and your job is not so much to change them either but like you say just be that vehicle, the thing is, you. me, and anyone, only gets to see a person outside in and it;s the inside out where it all starts and ends, instead of thinking your not doing enough know you are giving a person the benifit of your wisdom and profession, thier job is to use that to their own advantage and only they can decide when that time is right, I still live with my qualifyer and it isn't easy somedays, but I have been able to change myself to look at people in a different light, when I get consumed by someone else and I still do, I ask myself why? why am I doing this, what ever responce I give is a reflection of me not them, I try to be the person I want to be and not beat myself up feeling less than, when I do slip I use that mistake as my example to improve, and try and become the person I would like to attract, kind of thing, I have a saying and it goes, it is not all about me!

takecare

love

Katy

  x 

Usedtobe hit the nail on the head for me.

When I look down to the root of the issue, it's my avoiding focusing on myself. After all, there's definitely something going on inside ME that's got me feeling like I need to change someone. I'm not living in a place of acceptance when I'm in that spot.

I didn't know you were a counsellor - that's a REALLY interesting line to follow to be in a profession where your focus IS to guide people into changing. Whew. Major challenge for an Al-Anon, but then I suppose when we sponsor others, we get to experience this as well. I think there's a big difference, however, between wanting to change someone who's not asking for the help and working with someone who has requested the guidance. But even THEN, I can't put tons of energy into expectations that my guidance will be followed. Just say what is in my heart and have to leave the rest up to them and not develop an obsessive ownership in it.

I just wanted to ad

Handing the tools out to others, and keeping a safety tool kit at home are two very different things for me at least.

Physician heal they self..... yeah right!!!!!

I need these tools for me and a seperate tool box for my clients. I can put on my hat and take it off. Here I do a bit of both.
Why? Because my ESH for others is extended by what I have seen with hundreds of addicts over the years. That is also added to by how I know this makes me feel on a gut level. How it has played out in my own life.

Theres a lot of us work in the helping profession because its what we are good at. Unfortunately, we may be good at it because of our codependent traits. Its a fine line.

 

 

Sooooo you get to remind yourself that you still have work to do with "yourself".  I love the feedback you've solicited here Mark.  Some of it is echos from the past and some of it is new.  I've learned stuff on the journey also.  My sponsor when we were discussing my becoming a therapist told me "remember you cannot sell a 12th step".  I think you get that and in case not what he mean't was the difference between helping another person just to be helpful or helping another person to get affirmation and a paycheck.  He was one hugely intuitive sponsor.  Another thing I learned was that if I help a person and take the credit for it when they change for the better who gets the applause for the work done?  If the don't get better who gets the blame?   I learned the difference between helping and enabling which stays with me 24/7 because enabling is "my disease".  When a person has the time, ability and facility to get their tasks done and I step in and take over that is enabling...if they lack any one of those three assets AND THEY ASK me for help...that is being helpful.  In any case its their work and their consequences.  Detachment has been mentioned and it must be because that is how I practice respect and honor and mercy with any other person who I'm working thru something with.  It's not my problem and not my consequence yet it could use my experience, strength and hope.

Keep on keeping on Brother...You've done some good growing over time.

((((hugs))))

This is huge for me. Wanting to change people and circumstances ruled my life until i found alanon. For the first time i can let go and get to know me:)

When I read that I feel like I wrote it.... I also become frustrated with how I see parents treat their children and I used to get very worked up over it and I would talk for long durations with the therapist I am teamed with about the horrible things. Now, I realize these parents dont know much.. They are either sick, uneducated, or mentally ill.. almost all are addicts/alcoholics.. and I have to stop and remember that no person is born evil. personally, I believe its environment. This does not make it Okay and it is a sick cycle b/c these kids are headed down the same path to destruction when they get older. I think to myself how I remember random flashes of my childhood and I think how they might look back and remember me and that I was nice to them... and that is more than words. I also show compassion and kidness to the parents because I remember how ill they are. I can offer advice like therapy or NA but if they arent ready, they may never be ready.. I cant drive myself insane over them. I give it all to my HP and let it be. I am not God. I am a nice person with a big heart and I can make a difference just by showing up with a smile and showing these kids and adults compassion, love, and care.

what you said about people liking you. Thats me. I would overcompensate and try to have people see I was better than they thought. I have my moments but
al-anon has significantly helped me in letting those compulsions go. I still treat people with respect and some may say I am overly bubbly... but that is my true personality coming through. I am not smiling to anyones face then gossiping about them anymore. If someone does not like me its none of my business. between my HP and me. and myself and me. Im okay. "When you love yourself you start a life long romance." I make an effort to fuel the romance I have with myself every day. It works.

hi Pinchip,

I wanted to respond to your share as you have helped me so much with your ESH.

I too belive that people are born good and always understood them and made excuses it was because of this or that.  Howver today after liing with addictions I have learnt the hard way that good paople can be sick and behave in unacceptable ways.  This is their journey for som reason I wanted to help these people fix the situation get everyone else to understand the way I did;.

I have learnt today this is my sickness.  I think a lot of people in caring professions may be feeding their own addictions, gaining some form of affirmation from their work. I have had the opportunity to do family support but I tend to work more at a preventative level as I do not feel totally strong enough to detach and not take my work home.  I have ended my relationship for now with my ABf because I really needed to keep the focus on myself.  We can share our ESH with others but they have to put in the footwork just like we do.

 

hugs tracy xxx

Live and let live really needs to be a bigger focus for me. I am really going to work on it. That is what I have really gotten out of this post. Thanks all. I really value this community.

Don't you love it when you have a response almost completely typed out and hit a wrong button and its gone, have to start over and can't remember exactly what it was that you wrote? Oh well, can't do anything about it so might as well start again - which leads me into my gut response to your post - the serenity prayer's first line, "accept the things I cannot change". I have been there, done that with giving my best thought out advice only to have the advisee ignore what I suggested and do things their way, then whine about the outcome later. I read somewhere in my 50+ years of life, something about wasting time and effort worrying about things we have no control over was like fighting icebergs (drove my old daughter crazy saying "well, you can't fight icebergs") but I often come to see things as icebergs I have no control over. Mr. ex often made me think of a bull, a thirsty bull, a so-thirsty-it-hurts bull being dragged kicking and fighting down to the watering hole but refusing to drink because, even though he was thirsty, he's not going to let you make him do anything, period!

Accepting what you cannot change CAN be liberating - I ask if someone wants my advice, give it if asked, and shrug my shoulders if its not taken, sometimes pointing out that my advice wasn't followed, most times just saying well, you know what I think/thought. I often use the phrase "you know my opinion on the subject so I won't say it again" with my teenager.

My experience with mr ex has taught me lessons I would NOT have learned if I hadn't gone through it; I am sure that there were people trying to counsel me against marrying too fast but I was so dead-set on marrying this wonderful prince charming that I wouldn't have stopped to listen if they'd been speaking from the White House steps!

Put yourself back in your drinking days and consider the effect that your choices and behavior had on those who cared about you - did anything THEY did change you, COULD anything they did change you? Probably not, you had to reach a point where you were ready to change yourself.

But we try because we never know when something we say or do sticks with someone and helps - I remember someone long ago telling me that things we go through in life prepare us for helping someone else in a similar situation somewhere down the road. I was a teenager and I wonder if this guy ever felt like his advice was useless to give because people don't listen? If I could, I would tell him that THAT piece of advice has come round and round in my life; SO often I have reminded myself of it when I'm experiencing something, usually bad - the experience may someday help me help someone else through it, ease someone else's pain. I hope he is still giving out that piece of advice, because I use it often.