The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
So since I have been learning about my HP and all I have had this lingering feeling that the Christian God I grew up with is sooo mad at me. I keep asking myself if I could be going to hell if I don't believe in all of the bible. I am obsessing about it. I was raised to believe that I would go to hell if I didn't believe in the bible. I also am trying to figure out what I really belive. It seems that most everyone around my life is a christian and I have nothing against them since I say I am one as well and there is so much beauty to Jesus and his teachings. I just don't know if I can believe in hell and how some verses say "throwing them into the hell of fire" I am trying so hard to be good and make the right choice and yet I feel very conflicted about that God. If that was the right way then wouldnt I feel at peace about it I ask myself.
This is just a huge deal for me right now because I see the alanon members peace and I so want what they have. I hope this is okay to post here...I just needed to write this out instead of letting it circle and circle my mind. Thanks for being here.
-- Edited by daisy31 on Sunday 12th of February 2012 05:26:27 PM
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It is very difficult to have a pity party when I am celebrating all the gratitude I have in my life!
It will aither work out, . . . or, . . . It will work out."
I too was raised with the terror of Hell and a Punishing God. I understand.
What helped me was to work a complete 4 th thru 10 step on the issue. I explored my fears, my resentments , my misinformation, my perceptions I wrote them all down. Then proceeded to work the 5 thru 10 Step on what I found. I can assure you that today I have a loving Higher Power who DOES NOT punish people. This Power supports, encourages and is the nourisher each person.
I have not lived a bed or roses as a result of believing in this all powerful loving God, and I have had many hard an painful experiences to live through. , I was never abandoned. I received the serenity , courage and wisdom to live life on life's term without fear . That is enough for me
I do believe we create our own Heaven or Hell here on this earth. It is not what happens to me so much that counts but how I respond
With my loving God I can respond with kindness, courtesy and love. Without the help of my HP I respond in anger, fear and self pity
Please keep exploring your spirituality You will not be disappointed.
-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 12th of February 2012 09:23:13 PM
I hear your struggle and I do believe that our responses have strayed from giving ESH based on alanon tools.
In Alanon:We have no opinion on outside issues hence our name cannot be drawn into public controversy.
We can all sit here and give advise as to what we believe, however that is not the issue. The real question is how to resolve the inner conflicts so that you can learn to trust your HP.
. Obsessing over any subject is very destructive-- The slogans, the steps, sponsors truly do help to bring these conflicts to a manageable focus.
We are urged to Take What we like and leave the Rest. I in turn urge you to keep an open mind on this subject and continue to use the tools to recover.
You will find that middle ground and your HP will become clear.
Please keep coming back
-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 12th of February 2012 11:18:53 PM
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 13th of February 2012 01:21:38 AM
There is no better place for you to share about this stuff. Alanon is supposed to be a spiritual journey for you and this is exactly the type of searching you need to be doing in recovery. Anyhow, I recommend the book "Conversations with God." You can also get it as a book on tape (which is how I listened to it). It helped me redefine my spirituality.
One of the biggest gifts Al-Anon allows is * the God of our understanding * we dont have to explain to anyone what that means to us nor defend what we believe .. God and this program work wonders together so dont let the confusion derail your recovery .. relax and just be who you were meant to be . Louise
I love the quote Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell . Spirituality is for those of us who have been there.
-- Edited by abbyal on Monday 13th of February 2012 03:38:07 PM
I used to fear God and punishment but have read enough in the Bible (without organized religion getting in the way) to let go of that fear because there is much more mention of Him loving us, being a loving God, being our Father and as a parent I can compare His love with how deeply I love my children, how I would do anything for them. There is SO MUCH more love and happiness in the Bible. I do not do church because they tend to focus on the negative and I don't believe that is God's intent - your children do not love you because you have scared them into it; my dog doesn't love me because she fears me. When I am out doing something in nature it is easy to imagine a Heavenly Father walking beside me watching the expressions of joy on my face as I take in the beauty of the world He has created for me.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I think I will get that book, pinkchip. daisy, I encourage you to continue to post and explore spirituality. I am still learning and growing and deciding what works for me and I absolutely LOVE posts and threads like this one. Its a song and dance, this spirituality thing. When I begin to fear God again, what I have discovered in myself is that I am actually fearing people.. other people's thoughts of me. I can now accept that no human has all the answers and I stay clear of the ones who act as if they KNOW what it is all about. That is the mystery of life. But I do believe with all my heart that there is a loving higher power, whom I can rely on, and who is there for me.. for that I am grateful and because of that my days are far more peaceful and far less fearful. What so and so thinks of me is what it is, but between my higher power and I things are okay because I draw near to my higher power and I pray for His will for me. These are my personal beliefs of the matter. take what you like and leave the rest. so glad you're here and asking questions... finding faith is so so so fun. it really is a life long journey.
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Michelle!
No one can take away your peace of mind unless you let them.
I saw a teaching on this the other day, can't remember what pastor it was but anyway, he said something along the lines of, if you were to beleive there is no hell, then that would mean there is no heaven, and if there is no heaven, then where is the risen and glorified savior Jesus? I believe we have to take the bible literally. If God says there's a hell, then there's a hell. My best advice would be to read the Bible because it's the only way you can know who God is. And he is who he says he is, and the Bible is literally "God breathed". I don't agree that God is whoever you want him to be, that would actually be idolatry, because you are creating a God to fit your needs. I don't think Christianity says you are going to hell, on the contrary, we are all sinners saved by grace. My favorite scripture is John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life". What do you have to do to be saved? Believe in Jesus. It's that simple because salvation is a gift and all we have to do is accept it. What an awesome God we have!
I don't know if you are attending step meetings however right now we are focused on Step 2 in our group and the reading in tonights meeting was so powerful and good out of Pathway to Recovery. Those step meetings keep me in tune with where I need to be. Something someone recommended was reading out of the Big Blue Book for AA I can't remember the chapter someone feel free to chime in, however it's the part about spirituality and coming from a place of feeling confused about HP and what your definition is of HP.
Step 2 really is all about finding faith and seeing how we really always have choices if we will only get out of our own way and listen to our HP.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I agree with likemyheart that you have to get out of organized religion for a while and focus on just reading your Bible. Actually, the 12 steps were written with a very focused religious idea of a higher power, but without the organization of churches. Go to meetings that emphasize the steps. Study your Bible. You will get the answers that you need when you read and meditate.
I had completely turned away from an HP, thought that my HP already had punished me, and I felt I had plenty of proof of it. I had so much confusion. You don't have to feel any guilt at all about questioning all of it for nothing means anything unless you know it to be true in your heart. I love the saying "more will be revealed" in this program and your own journey. It truly will. A good book for me was As We Understood..a lightish blue one that you can get through Al-Anon
I did not mean to say I "stay away" from people who have strong beliefs and state their religious views.. That came out wrong. I do, however, not engage or take part in those conversations because I do not have to prove that my way is right to anyone.
Al-Anon is a SPIRITUAL program, it is NOT a religious one. Members can be of any religion but we do not advice against or with any religion. When Al-Anon members advise that someone read a particular religious book or believe in a particular religion or symbol or sect than that is going against what Al-Anon stands for. I feel when a particular set of religious beliefs is enforced it can greatly scare off the newcomer. Let me explain. I entered Al-Anon very very agnostic. If anyone in that first meeting I attended were to go on about the Koran or the Bible or the Torah I would have left and NEVER came back. I was very angry at organized religion and any talk of it REALLY scared me. I am so grateful no one talked like that because now what I have discovered is that these different opinions and beliefs are okay. That is the beauty.. If it works for you it works for me but I can't make myself follow a certain belief because it works for someone else. So to talk religiously is going against what Al-Anon and AA stand for.
Alcoholics Anonymous Preamble: Alcoholic Anonymous Preamble is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking . AA has no dues or fees. It is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, ORGANIZATION or institution. Does not wish to engage in any controversy. Neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
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Michelle!
No one can take away your peace of mind unless you let them.
For what it's worth, I struggled with this issue too. For a very long time. What I did was read the religious books from every major and minor religion I could get my hands on. For me, one resonated true much more than the others. I'm not trying to start a religious debate here. I grew up Christian, but am not now. I am, however, more religious and believing than I ever was before. God does not speak only through the Bible. Seek the truth and your higher power and you will find it.
Al-Anon does not dictate particular religious beliefs to us. The wording is "the God of our understanding." Whether that's the Catholic's understanding of God, the Lutherans' understanding of God, the Baptists' understanding of God, the Seventh-Day Adventists' understanding of God, the Jehovah's Witnesses' understanding of God, the Mormons' understanding of God, the Jewish understanding of God, the Hindu understanding of God, the Buddhist understanding of God, the Wiccan understanding of God, or anyone else's understanding of God ... the book does not dictate. It's a big umbrella and we're all welcome under it. Some people's personal beliefs undoubtedly contradict other members' personal beliefs about God. That's fine; it's about getting help from what we believe. So I think whether a certain religious doctrine is literally true is not anything that Al-Anon can weigh in on. Of course the answer will differ according to who's answering, but there's no "official" answer.
The one thing that Al-Anon agrees on, as I understand it, is that we can look to something larger than our own diminished perspectives to help us get well. People find that higher power in different ways. In my experience, the more we focus on our own recovery and good health, the clearer the answers become.
Aloha Family and I'd like to jump in just a tad with my ESH before the program, during the program and now as it has established itself in my life. I was born into the Catholic Religion and at the age of 7 understood that there were a few things that didn't match up with what was being said and what was being done and with that information I decided to keep and even further open mind as I continued to remain in it. I was also born into a missionary atmosphere meaning that there were more churches and religious organizations running around prostetilizing and trying to convert others into their way of thinking than there were drunks waiting outside of the bar waiting for it to open. Fact was that someone these people were also at the bar...LOL. I was told as a youngster not to do anything wrong so as not to make angry my "loving" creator. Anger and loving didn't match up so I went with "loving" and tried to be that myself. I have served the Catholic Church widely and deeply in the past and I no longer attend any church because I always found myself wanting during the whole experience and life time.
When I got to Al-Anon I was told "If you keep and open mind you will find help" and that allowed me to listen to all of the memberships share on lots of topics including religious and "spiritual" believes and behaviors which was how I came to understand and to hear my Creator Father who is also the Creator Father of everyone else...We have the same Father. I came to understand and accept that the name of my Father is Love...Love is who Father is and what Father does and I let my Father mentor me and my behaviors also. I believe that there have been many brothers and sisters who have come before me, are here with me and will come after me who practice a way of living that is spiritually valueable and blessed and whose lives and behaviors can be described as "loving" and these are light and support and direction for me. These brothers and sisters come from many ages and their spirits remain to give guidance and support and affirmation. I believe this cause this is what works for me in my life.
I was told Al-Anon was not a religion but if I work the steps religiously my life would change...mind, body, spirit and emotions and that is what has happened. Thank God for the addicted people in my life who I tried to play god with and failed so that broken down I could find the doors of Al-Anon and recover my own self and connect with my own need, a power greater than myself.
I've lived my time in hell and in some parts of my life still do and these are not caused by my HP. I am involved as well as others all trying to run life on egotistical terms; exerting self and self power upon others and treating others without Love...God...or God-likeness. Al-Anon has a solution to that which is in the steps, the slogans, the literature, the membership and meetings and in the practice of a humble relationship with a power greater than myself who I choose to call the name I call God. That name is ancient...older than churches...and most real for me.
Don't turn your search for a power greater than yourself into another form of hell. Try practicing acceptance that there is one who is unconditionally accepting and loving of you who is always there...always...for you and when you practice listening will speak with you. Thats my experience.
Thanks everyone for sharing. It is soooo helpful. I just keep reading and reading over your responses and it feels really good to have the support here. I guess this is a journey and I have come so far already. I trust that my HP will lead me where I need to be...in his/her/it's safe arms of love. I still have some fear but I am going to journey onward and trust the process. I am going to keep an open mind and trust. I am letting go....I am trusting.....
Much love!
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It is very difficult to have a pity party when I am celebrating all the gratitude I have in my life!
It will aither work out, . . . or, . . . It will work out."
The Conversations With God books (there is a trilogy) are wonderful. After reading them I no longer felt guilt about not wanting to align myself with a particular label. It answered the questions that posed doubt and helped me be free to believe in the HP of my understanding.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
