update - long post as per usual for me - Al-Anon Family Group

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

update - long post as per usual for me

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

When I came here, first thing I learned was, I am powerless over what anyone else does. I realized I did not want another human being telling me what to do either.

Al Anon is not about them. It's about us. My experience was I found out that his stuff is his own, he is an adult and he makes his own choices. It was none of my business.

I learned being married to an A is not going to be like being married to a non A. An A has so many symptoms,they lie,manipulate, are selfish and more. Their first concern is their drug, or in recovery it usually is their recovery program and connection to their HP.

I readjusted me to be happy he was home, to change how I lived. It was like you, I got married to a clean and sober on program A. He was the best, we were so close. I had loved him all my life. He was there for me when my first husband died.

When he changed I was in shock and in denial awhile. Was pretty bad. But again finally stayed and worked on me.

When you say the lust goes away or the marriage changes that way, Not always at all. I had been with him off and on my whole life, we had a son. Up until he was too sick, everytime was the best. I NEVER felt anything change as far as that. When he got so sick, he felt so guilty that changed lots.

I see you trying to analyze insanity.I was like that too. I was always picking the world apart as I am very curious and want to know. This does not work with an A, they are sick. Their brain does not work normally.

I invite you to read your share again. To an old al anoner like me, what I saw was an A manipulating to get what he wanted. Not give his loved one what they wanted. I could feel how rattled you were inside.

Reading you will take wine, he will take bourbon was like WHAT?? Those are drugs too.

Did you check to see if there are Al Anon meetings around you somewhere? Cannot remember if you got the, Getting Them Sober book?

Linda if you would read it, pm me,send me your address and i will get you one. So many of your questions will be answered I promise.

One way I think about it is, they are insane. Drugs affect every part of them.

To expect him to live a different way is like asking him to pick up something heavy with a broken arm. He is not well! His brain is sick, the more he uses the more sick he will become.

After all you have been through of course you are in pain, confused, afraid of abandonement! This is what makes it vital to stay out of their inventory and work on YOU. When we build ourselves up, we can handle this bolony so much better.

He has already told you what he wants and what he is going to do. We cannot change him, not ever.We can only work on us.

Plus what you said that you wanted to be the beginning and end of importance to someone. Let me tell you, that is not a healthy love. I would rather have a man who goes fishing, builds things than one who always had to be with me and I am everything.

Then if they lose you they cannot survive. I have been thru it twice and almost did not.

Each of us needs to have our own lives, our own interests and strengths. And then as a couple we need that space of things we enjoy together. But we are still like pillars holding up the same walkway. one on each side.

I guess what I am saying is, a person wants to be accepted for who they are. Loved for themself. A's are no different. We can learn to love , but hate the disease.

please let me know if I can send ya that book. I would be honored to do that.

love,debilyn

Too hard · Senior Member

It's so hard isn't it.

It is OK to be angry, very angry.

It seems best if one can learn to use the anger to take positive action for ones self.

We often seem to be slow learners but it takes time to change how our minds have been set by actions and happenings in our past.

Be good to yourself. T H

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Actually Linda I'm reading "self will run riot"...that's an old recovery idea opposite the 1st step. Course the outcome is that it always has consequences and that too also reminds that "If you do what you've always done, you keep getting what you've alway got" or said another way, "the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over expecting different results."

It appears like you've decided to attempt it "your way" again...that's okay we all have choices...how are you wanting it to come out for you this time?

For me I had to learn that the signals I was getting from the using and drinking alcoholic/addict wife were telling me to "Let Go!!" not keep clutching at it thinking everything was going to magically turn out the way I wanted it to.

This is a four level disease that runs on all four levels all at the same time...mind, body, spirit and emotions. He's already told you to STOP!! what is it about that prayer that you don't want to do? My sponsor once asked me, under the same conditions, "Why didn't you stop when she asked you to?" For the life of me I just couldn't come up with an answer because I didn't know that my problem was me.

Keep coming back...this works when you work it. In support (((((hugs))))) smile

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Linda,

What Jerry has said really resonates with me if I had the program language down that's what I would say as well. You cannot control him and MAKE him be sober, not stoned whatever when he is with you. It doesn't mean you don't have choices, it means continually using the same pattern of expectation he's going to "see the light" do what you want him to do and hear how "right" you are about this situation; it's going to be disappointing to you. That drawer is going to haunt you in your awake time and sleep time. Something my sponsor has shared with me is that when she would call her sponsor and say, he's doing this or that, her sponsor would reply, "I guess my dear when you get sick and tired of being sick and tired you'll do something." That's what's so great about the program is it is our time not anyone else's time. Sometimes we aren't ready for what we hear/read. We have to be to a point where the pain outweighs our emotional payoff. For me I crawled into a meeting there was no walking for me the weight of the world was on my shoulders and I crawled, cried, begged whatever that first meeting why would anyone do this to another person. I did receive the kick in the butt I needed at the time .. lol .. not happy about it .. however it did change my life.

He's telling you he's tired of hearing about this from you and while we want them to listen to us, we have to extend the same courtesy and listen to them. When I started listening to my AH things changed because my way was not the only way. I had to open my ears and make the choice of what battles to pick and truthfully his sobriety is not a battle for me to fight it is his. That's what it means to stay on our side of the street. In my mind the addiction is more powerful than I am, it's not to powerful for my HP so I will give the addiction to my HP. Yes, I still get scared, angry, frustrated, I know I have the support of my HP and no matter what things are going to be ok.

It does get better, it will only get better when you truly surrender to the fact you have no power over his addiction. For me it's something I go to daily, people, places, things (I throw in the past for good measure to remind myself that I cannot change my past to be a better outcome).

In support hugs, P :)

usedtobeanyer · Senior Member

The others who have replied to you are much smarter & wiser than I on this topic. But I thought I'd just chime in because I think I can relate somewhat.

What Debilyn says really resonated with me. I love my wife and I always will; but the unfortunate reality is that things will never be what they once were when we were dating, first married, etc. She is sick, and knowing has required me to change my expectations for how she will behave and how we will relate as husband and wife.

What I still lack in this area is sympathy and understanding. Rather than just accepting it and being kind and loving to the person I love, I shut down and exhibit non-verbal anger and bad feelings.

Do I want her to drink, of course not, none of us want our qualifiers to do what they do. But if she were to look at me and tell me she intended to drink tomorrow, I would understand, I wouldn't argue, I wouldn't scream and yell, I wouldn't get her to try and change her mind. I would do my best to accept it and try (and try and try) to be kind and understanding. I can't expect her not to want and need to drink. She has the disease of alcoholism and there is no cure. I am completely powerless over this, as is she.

Read what Jerry wrote--My sponsor once asked me, under the same conditions, "Why didn't you stop when she asked you to?" For the life of me I just couldn't come up with an answer because I didn't know that my problem was me.

I will say I'm finding it difficult to put this in place and also continue to develop a healthy relationship with my wife. The relationship is suffering while all of this is going on. But I think that speaks to my earlier point, about learning to really truly accept the situtation for what it is and be kind and understanding to the person I love.

The last thing I'll say (and I'd really encourage you to focus on the earlier replies to your post, as I said, these people are much wiser on this topic than I)--at a meeting a few months ago, someone was telling a story about when he first started attending Al Anon meetings. He was talking to an old timer at the meeting, going on and on about all of the horrible things his wife had been doing related to alcohol. And no matter what he said, the person he was talking to just kept interjecting and said "yeah, but you'll be ok". He said it eventually was making him really angry because no matter what he would say about what his wife had done, this person just kept repeating the same exact words "yeah, but you'll be ok".

I would say the same thing to you--"yeah, but you'll be ok". Work the program as best as you can.

youfoundme · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda, you have gotten some great E S & H here. Again, I was much like you a little over a year ago. I didn't want to go to meetings. I didn't want to work the steps. I didn't think I needed to. I could talk the talk, but I didn't walk the walk...I thought I had enough power to get through it all on my own. I thought I could tell him how he had to behave if and when we did things together. I didn't want to accept things for how they were. I can tell you something though, this last two weeks, I finally just got to step 1. I stopped all the insanity of trying to make him stop.

I stopped talking to him about *IT*. Now we have conversations about sports, life, my kids (his soon to be step-kids), and what our plans are for our wedding. Things are much much better at home since I started doing the 5 G's that Tommye posted yesterday... I started that a couple weeks ago, it took some false starts but I eventually got it. I finally and utterly realized I really was powerless over him and everyone else. I couldn't make him stop, I couldn't ask him to stop, I couldn't cry, lecture, force solutions to get him to stop... somehow because of me letting go and letting God, things started to change. My body language changed, my words changed. I began to speak to him like another adult in the house. I realized I have to let him live his life.

Yesterday I came home from work to a beautiful rose and a sweet and loving card from him. It was out of no where, but it really really hit home and made me feel the love.

Somethings I do to stop the insanity of trying to somehow control him: ACOA and Alanon meetings, Alanon literature, Getting Them Sober book, using the phone as one of my biggest tools to call my sponsor, or talk to alanon friends, and this board, I try to reply to others to help me stay out of my head. That committee in there can take over real easy if I let it. I am addicted to adrenalin, and when I stopped feeding into the chaos, I went through a series of trying to cause chaos. Finally I got it...I went to yoga, I went to church, I talked to my sponsor, I fed my self spiritually... Its getting better all the time...

You can keep trying to make him bend to your will, or you can go to meetings and get a sponsor and work the steps as they were meant to be worked.... Even listening to XA Speakers for some pod casts can help... or the online meetings here, right on MIP can help... HUGS to you, in loving support... take care of you :)

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda,

You have had tremendous E,S,H already. I particularly liked what Jerry said because it was so true of my recovery. I had to be willing to put the sword down because it takes two to fight and take a long hard look at my behavior and actions as they were impacting my marriage.

Working the steps in Alanon showed me a reflection as to what is was like to BE MARRIED TO ME. UGH, it wasnt a pretty one. The person I thought I was was nothing like I imagined. My sponsor helped me see that in my step work and in the writing. That is why it is SO IMPORTANT for me in my recovery to have a sponsor guide me through the process.

I cant fix my broken thinking with the mind that created it. A loving sponsor is detached and can clearly see what I could not. Then and only then was I able to change when I was able to see who I really was.

mslouise · Senior Member

Mrs. Linda,

I can so feel your fight in your words, so familiar, such panic I can relate so well too. When I was with my A, we would commit to spend an evening together. Then he would say "I have to go out for a while, but I'll be back". I knew what that meant...and while he was gone it took all I had to survive, all I had...the questions, worry, wondering....but then when he came back it was like a huge weight of relief lifted off my heart, and the panic immedialy stopped and I was good again. He returned!!! He is ok!!! and he still wants me, is back with me!!!! Thank God!!! I look at this now and how I acted during those times, how I was treated, and I cringe.

Heathly relationships are supposed to have their differences - different interests, hobbies, friends even...but it is still respectful, boundries should be known and if respected, then they are followed. I am out of my A relationship, for a while...it was extremely unhealthy and has scared me beyond belief. I am now for a year, in a wonderful, non A relationship that I owe to my years at Al-Anon and hard work too...and some things that are "healthy", like doing things without your other, talking and socializing with others apart from your A, not worring that he will get mad or that their will be a consequence or repercussion if you do something....is still a struggle for me. And the lust thing, that feeling that when you love someone and are together for some many years so it just fades just cause of time....don't buy that for a minute.

My question for you is, do you have a problem with the smoking all together? In other words, will you be ok when your camping, and he leaves, and your sitting there....knowing what he is doing out in those woods....would you be able to be relaxed, enjoy yourself still, knowing he is getting stoned.....and then he comes back and he is stoned, red eyed, would you be ok with that......would you be able to accept that, is that ok for you?...and is he really with you then?

Please put yourself first.....and you don't need anyone to love you but you...when you can do that, the good will follow. Easy to say, harder to learn.

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

You received beautiful and great ESH and I just want to add I am sending you support on your journey! Keep taking care of you!

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I love all the replies that have already been made!

I've discovered here that all my attempts to make someone else compromise were not boundaries, they were attempts to control. Boundaries = things I do for me. If someone is drunk, I will not let them drive me because my safety is at issue. That is a boundary. Setting limits for someone else about how much, when, etc. is not a boundary - it's my attempt to get someone else to do it my way. I've discovered that with all the alcoholics in my life, trying to control how much they drink, when they drink it, or what they drink is futile because I simply don't have the power. I'm setting myself up to be disappointed and let down when I give myself the expectation that a discussion about my preferences as to when or how much is going to change the reality that the other person is going to use however much they want and whenever they want. I know this to be true because I've tried controlling someone else's addiction from a million and one different angles - drink less, drink only at this time, drink only this beverage and not this other one, drink only when you eat, one drink is permissible with dinner but two is not, etc. NONE of it worked out for me. If it had, I wouldn't be here. Like it or not, agree with it or not, it's simply not my choice to make. The only thing I can do is choose what I'm going to do.

rrib · Senior Member

Lindaoakford wrote:
I will take a bottle of wine, he will take some bourbon. Maybe I can just connect with him

I'm sorry Linda and am just confused.

Are you saying here it's OK to be high as long as he is using your drug of choice? Do you feel you need to be stoned to 'connect'?

My apologies in advance if I'm sounding rude.

amills4294 · Senior Member

White Rabbit - thank you for your explanation of the difference between boundaries and control... boy did I need to read that

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I just wanted to say that that feeling that he was not "with" me was a feeling I had with my A much of the time. Because the alcohol got in the way. I don't think we are called upon to like this. As I understand it, it's realistic to expect that that's the way it's going to be. But we don't have to mistake that for real intimacy, and try to force ourselves to like it.

As someone explained it to me once, when there's a mismatch in levels of emotional health, as between a sober person and an alcoholic, the people engage in a tug-of-war to get both on the same level. The sober person wants to get the alcoholic sober. The addict wants to get the sober person into the same degree of insanity, so the insanity will be "normal." They both tug and tug. Recovery is stopping the tugging.

I hope you don't need to numb out with alcohol to enjoy the weekend. That would be letting him tug you down to his level.

Take good care of yourself.

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

Ok now I am confused.......

1. Ihave chosen for the future to not post any more comments regarding alcohol use, I feel that it creates tension. I agree it is a drug, however for me, this board addresses dependence and addiction and that is not an issue at this point in time in my life. I am sorry that I may have inadvertantly offended as so many of you have issues with alcohol, this being an alcohol forum and all. I realise I am a bit different here, just as I am everywhere Igo.. don't ever quite 'fit the mould'.

2. The passion I talked about is a scientific fact that it diminishes. The lust is still there and we have fantastic 'times'. But that four times a day and constant counting the hours till we see each other again has to slow down or I would die of physical exertion and not get any housework done hey. I find him very attractive still. He is not a demonstrative man, he was when we were first dating, but like I say... that was just pure lust. Passion on the other hand is still there. I hope that explains myself a bit better. The patterns and necessities of everyday life do have an influence. He also works two physically demanding jobs,particularly his sporting career.

3. and onto my confusion. so... for me.... I don't like being around him when he is stoned. Purely and only because it makes me feel bad and I don't like the look etc. I feel a bit down when he is stoned. Maybe I am jealous, maybe because I don't understand why you want to do that to yourself on a regular almost daily basis,,,, who knows... He is not abusive, he is not dangerous to me, he is not nasty, he is just a waste of oxygen to me at that point. I am in no mortal or physical danger.. Ijust don't like it.

So... for me to go and 'do something' wiht my husband, I think we have to compromise his hobby until I get one of my own... that will include going bush and him fishing or hunting or bowfishing or whatever,and me doing some study or reading or whatever at the base camp and relaxing. No, its not ideal, nothing in life is.

I can't maintain that self imposed rule. If we were home, then I would walk away and do something else in a different room. Can't do that when we are on a picnic rug. So I ask if he will only smoke when he is 'out hunting or fishing' but that is me being controlling?????

You all say Jerry made sense... I am confused... please clarification (for you Australians out there.. 'please expllaaaaiiinnnn').... I get cranky when I am confused so please excuse any bluntness, but I amnot sure how to ask for the clarification.

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

I just want to say in my life my Mom is a pot smoker, my dad before he died was addicted to pain killers, my brother is an A and my ex husband is also addicted to alcohol. I believe addiction is addiction it all effects us. I tend to be codependent and before Al-anon try to care take and save these people nearly driving myself into insanity. I am sorry, but I don't find you so different, I always assumed you were dealing with an addiction that has effected your life. Maybe I am wrong, but this is my 2 cents.

amills4294 · Senior Member

Linda -

I find most of the times I like these boards because there is "cross-talk", unlike in face to face meetings. However it is hard to sometimes read things that seem critical or like they've upset somebody. I had it happen to me. Hopefully just take what you want and leave the rest. It's hard to convey everything on these boards so that it is understood by others. I appreciate ALL that you've shared.

For me the distinction between boundaries and control were good. My husband likes guns - he's obsessive over them. I used to harass him about it all the time. "how could he like that sort of stuff, etc". I still don't get it but I've decided it's not mine to get. So I no longer address him about his interest in guns and what he does with them because that's his to decide. Now, if it starts to effect our finances (which it did) or he asks me to get him one as a gift - I say those are my boundaries. If it impacts me directly it's a boundary. If it's just him liking them or going shooting or whatever - I no longer get worked up about it. He felt I was trying to control him.

I don't know if that helps. After reading it again it sounds like babbling. :)

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

Amills.. so.. if you wanted to spend a weekend with your A, and he wanted to spend some of that time out shooting, or took his guns for part of it.. you just wouldn't go?

I don't usually go bush with my husband, but occassionally its nice to do something different. I was trying to work out how I can maintain my boundary of not wanting to be around the pot smoking, whilst still going bush for a day with him.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Lindaoakford wrote:
Ok now I am confused.......
So I ask if he will only smoke when he is 'out hunting or fishing' but that is me being controlling?????
You all say Jerry made sense... I am confused... please clarification (for you Australians out there.. 'please expllaaaaiiinnnn').... I get cranky when I am confused so please excuse any bluntness, but I amnot sure how to ask for the clarification.

Hugs Linda,

I hope you don't mind a little bluntness back, I appreciate it when people are able to put stuff on the table and sort it all out either then or at a later date.

How I took what jerry said, if you keep doing what you are doing you are going to get what you got. Based upon your current behavior .. Is your husband smoking less and are you feeling more serenity? Are you having more anxiety or less? Are you expecting your husband to give you what he can't and then being angry that he is not giving in to your demands? Going to the hardware store for that loaf of bread and demanding to know why they are out of bread? He is NOT willing to give up the pot. Who knows what the future holds, down the line no one knows that, however what you are doing is he using less? Is that working for you? We are back to the question of he's going to smoke or he's not, what are YOU going to do?

You absolutely have a right to state how you feel ONE time. From what I gather you have, once you continue to state your point on a given topic (any given topic.. lol, I am powerless over people, places and things including the past) it moves from expressing how you feel to controlling. After that one time it goes to your HP and then it has to be let go of. I can give you example after example in my own life how that hasn't worked for me in my relationship with my AH. I did a tremendous amount of damage to my relationship with my AH pre DUI days. I am so ashamed about how I treated him and I have tremendous amends to make to him and to my children. Believe me when I say angel was not on my list of attributes, a$$ was at the front of the words that were follwoed by hole and hat. It was not pretty in our house and I thought I was so above on my behavior. I was a flat out victim and a flat out martyr. That was my take on what was happening "to me" because what responsibility did I have in it?

Yours is telling you to stop and you need to listen to that because if you want him to listen to you .. communication is not listening to Linda talk and he does nothing except agree. It's a two way street. Hearing things that we don't like and having to accept them because they are part of the whole package.

You always have choices. You don't have to go and you can sit and stare at his drawer. OR you can go and allow the day to go where it might. Yes, he may smoke. Know what, .. so what .. you have a choice to make it a good day or a bad day. That's not his responsibility it is YOURS. He is not doing it to you .. you do it to yourself. If you can't go with him and have a good time .. don't go. It's entirely up to you. Maybe it's time to find that hobby.

Trust me when I say I understand you locking down and in, being angry and confused because no one jumped on the "way to go" bandwagon the reality is what you are doing is only hurting you and none of us want to see you hurt. We care about you. You are talking program talk however you are choosing not to actively work a program. I'm sooo sorry if that comes out as a judgement, .. I'm trying to be more of an outside observer. You choose not to go to meetings. You choose to continue to do the same things wondering why it's not working for you.

I gotta wonder what a smart, intellegent, funny, beautiful, strong woman like you is so afraid of. Because the real Linda, the one that is really off the hook, gonna work the program like no one else can is soooo close take the chance. I'm talking rock star, because she no longer needs other people to validate how she feels. Take the chance to be everything I see in your posts that is so close to coming out. Take the risk. Go to a meeting come back and tell me I'm wrong. I'm willing to take the risk call you out and say what is holding you back?

Now not being ready is OK!! You don't have to be ready today I'm just asking you to be willing to see what I read in your posts. The willingness to attend a meeting. The posts I'm talking about are not the my husband isn't doing what I want him to posts I'm talking about the I had an amazing day today posts. The ones where you soar.

Take what you like from all of the posts, understand that if you go back and reread your previous posts there is a theme. It's not meant to be critical it's meant with a lot of love and support. If nothing changes nothing changes and sister friend. It does come back to asking, Are you powerless over addiction? Is your life unmanagable?

Hugs P :)

-- Edited by RLC on Thursday 20th of October 2011 12:11:39 AM

rrib · Senior Member

How much drugs and alcohol is too much vs how much is helpful.

We all know that before we developed 'problems' a little booze or a little weed probably helped us be sociable and connect with other people. By the time someone shows up here they suspect that maybe drugs or alcohol or both are effecting their relationships. They are probably right.

Maybe growing a relationship is like growing corn. You want nice big corn and its growth is stunted by root worms so you call the ag company. They mix up a tablespoon of a chemical and 2000 gallons of water, spray your field and the corn is not inhibited by root worms anymore.

Buy what happens when they get the formula wrong and spray 2000 gallons of chemical - no water? It kills the corn and makes the field toxic. It may not be clear how much time and effort it might take before the ground isn't toxic anymore. What IS clear is that adding more poison won't fix the problem and recreate a fertile field.

It's true that we cannot control how much drugs and alcohol our spouses pour onto our relationships. That is not the same as saying our actions have no influence. I can choose how I react to my spouses bad behaviour. When I don't enable bad behaviour, my influence makes it harder to keep doing it.

And I can certainly decide to stop pouring alcohol and drugs onto the relationship from MY side. (everyone raise their hands it they think my alcohol and drug use may influence my alcoholic/addicted spouse)

Trust me on this. You are not offending anyone or creating undue tension. This board and Al-Anon meetings are THE places to be talking about alcohol and drugs from all points of view. Going camping sounds like a great idea. Why more wine and booze? What's wrong with hot-coco? Maybe is what you really need to start talking about?

I meet people all the time who think drinking is OK but drugging is not. And the oppisite - can't drink anymore but turn to pot or other drugs to control thier alcoholism.

What part of Jerry's post didn't click? It's OK to be blunt.

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

I have put the 'confusing' part below... maybe I will re word it.. my new lesson that I do not yet understand, is below.

"Actually Linda I'm reading "self will run riot"...that's an old recovery idea opposite the 1st step. Course the outcome is that it always has consequences and that too also reminds that "If you do what you've always done, you keep getting what you've alway got" or said another way, "the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over expecting different results."

It appears like you've decided to attempt it "your way" again...that's okay we all have choices...how are you wanting it to come out for you this time?"

End quote

I really thought what I did was try to keep my boundaries around what I will accept around me, AND want to spend time with him out bush. I didn't think that was controlling or trying to do it my way.. but I will accept that you guys know what you are talking about and I am willing to have the lesson...

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

As Flop explained, pot, alcohol, heroin, pain pills, cocaine, crack, meth whatever they are all substances that affect the body negatively.Our bodies do not know the difference between some of these. Alcohol, after its been in the body shows up like heroin.

Ok I, from what you have shared, you are not an addict or alcholic. But he is. He is an addict. So to say he will bring his bourbon is NO different than him smoking dope. It still alters his mind and body.

Your not liking to be around him when he is stoned, is not his problem. He made it clear he is going to smoke.He put his foot down, he said accept it or you can choose to leave.

As your shared it was apparent, you did not get it. He is saying back off, my smoking is none of your business.

Next thing he knows you are trying to tell him when and where he can smoke again! It does not matter if you are home or camping. It is his business.

Al Anon can teach you to focus away from anything to do with his smoking habit, the jobs he chooses, how fast he drives, whatever.

Here is an example. He tells you before you get married, I don't like it when you eat ice cream. I don't want a fat wife. You comply, next thing you know you are eating ice cream,it is your favorite food.

He catches you in a lie about it. So you work hard not to eat it. Possibly sneaking cheese cake. Well its no ice cream!

Finally you decide to heck with him telling me what to do. And you tell him, I am going to eat ice cream if you don't like it tough.

next thing you know he is saying lets go do something together. BUT don't eat ice cream. OMG I would flip my lid.It is not the pot, it is not the ice cream. Its the fact that you both are adults and have the right to do what you do.

IF you don't like it, it is your problem, period! We don't get to tell others what to do our how to live.

Linda I hated the smell of alcohol. It brought pictures up of my first husband who was drunk, got ran over and fought for a week to live and died.

Can you imagine what it did to me when I smelled it on my used to be on program new husband??

I was just like you.

but becuz of al anon I learned i loved the man. hated the alcohol. I learned somehow to face he is very sick. I wanted to be with him. So for some reason loving him just how he was is what I learned to do. Sure I could smell it,sure he acted retarded. NO offense meant.His brain was so messed up. He walked stupid, he tried to argue, He would do stupid stuff. BUT I learned to look passed it as it was none of my business.

So far I don't know what you are into. Another person cannot be our passion. Sadly A's passion is their drug.

My sons passion is fishing.

daughters is baking and making fine jewelry.

Mine is animals.

Jerrys is hula dancing...lol

All Jer is saying is your husband basically told you, his smoking is none of your business.So what is going on with you that you cannot comply with not even talking about it? When someone tells us I am going to do this period, he feels he is not being listened to when we say, ya butt ya butt.....it just does not matter how we feel about it to them.

What matters is what are we going to do?

Live with it, learn to not give it any energy same as if he had a wart on his nose.

Or are we going to fight against the brick wall and try to peck at it driven us both nuts.

or are we going to leave?

There is NO compromise to be made. He said this is the way it is. HE did not say,but you tell me when you need me not to do it. that does not work.

I hope this helped. This is what we are here for linda!!! We have all gone thru this. You my dear are working hard and learning! Learning is NOT easy. We learn when we are in pain. Not unlike if we trip in a hole and hurt ourselves,then do it again and think dang I better put a board over that hole,or I better not run that way again.

I almost got broken into. Talk about scared. It was painful to lose that innosense that I was safe. So I make sure doors are locked. I have things I am doing to make me and my animal family safe. It took a shock to make me do something.

You said yourself you wish you coulda taken it back.

Keep coming. Believe me your relationship, your issues are nothing new at all. you fit in more than perfect. YOu share great esh too! I am glad you are here and you can tell by the responses we all love you and care, we really do.

(c: "Getting Them Sober," By Toby Rice Drew volume ONE. it will open your eyes!!! love your friend, debilyn

You all say Jerry made sense... I am confused... please clarification (for you Australians out there.. 'please expllaaaaiiinnnn').... I get cranky when I am confused so please excuse any bluntness, but I amnot sure how to ask for the clarification.

-- Edited by Debilyn on Wednesday 19th of October 2011 06:26:38 PM

Cupcake · Veteran Member

Linda,

I totally understand that you thought you were just setting boundaries and not controlling. I struggle with knowing the difference that's why I liked whiterabbit's post so much. I haven't been working my program for long so I don't know much about setting boundaries but i do see how controlling i am. Right now I haven't set any boundaries. I don't know how.

Sometimes our responses to other's posts, in an attempt to help, seem like an attack. I think everyone has to go through the process and we are all at different stages. Just as we can't get our alcoholics to see what we see, I don't think we can force every member of this group to be in the same emotional and spiritual place. I hope you didn't feel attacked, Linda. And please keep posting. Your struggles help me to see my own and I am grateful.

In my thoughts and prayers,

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda, I love your posts - love that when you don't understand you say so. I sometimes find myself nodding and agreeing even when I don't understand. It's part of my own set of issues ... coming here, I take something from every single post.

I don't think pot smoking is different than any other addiction. I hope you will keep talking about whatever is going on - alcohol, pot, whatever. Being honest and not keeping it inside means that the problems have less power to drag us down.

I remember SO WELL when I went to my first Alanon meeting. I had no idea what the heck anyone was talking about. I just wanted someone to tell me what to do. Nobody would give me specific advice - just told me to "keep coming back" and "it works if you work it." Grrrr. It wasn't what I wanted to hear. I didn't do either. I didn't go to another meeting for 2 years. That next 2 years was pretty much the same as the 8 that came before it. Nothing had changed about me ... I was still doing all the same things and just hoping that my circumstances would somehow improve. It's only since I embarked on my own recovery that I actually understood why - that I actually DO have the power to decide whether I'm going to be happy or not and then act accordingly. I kept waiting for happiness ... if he'd just ___, then I'd be happy. Since ____ never happened (take your pick - picking up his socks, calling when he was gonna be at the bar for 5 hours instead of 1, showing up for dinner when he said he would, not spending his whole paycheck on beer and topless dancers, paying the bills on time, WHATEVER), I thought I couldn't be happy. I was so focused on the behaviors I wanted to change that I lost sight of everything else.

I discovered here that it's perfectly healthy for me to feel a particular way about another person's behavior. Certainly, I don't have to like the fact that an addict uses!
But the particular bag of effective tricks I have to choose from in recovery don't include negotiating with an addict about their addiction. That was a trick from my old bag of ineffective tricks that have never actually worked in the past and I have no reason to expect will ever work in the future. If compromise worked, we'd have all figured out workable compromises with our qualifiers and none of us would need this forum or Alanon.

It was my work on the 4th step that helped me to identify all the places where I'd been controlling. If I'd evaluated my behavior before I did that step, I would've said I was the least controlling person in the whole world. I had it in my head that because I just wanted good things for the addicts in my life (which did not include legal trouble, health consequences, and/or death from using), trying to get them to quit using was not a control thing - it was just because I cared and didn't want to see them get in trouble. And I HATED the effects of drugs and alcohol and just wanted to see my loved ones sober. It's hard to look past the good intentions we all have and honestly evaluate both the behavior and the motive. It isn't easy and it isn't particularly fun either. I didn't enjoy my first fourth step AT ALL.

However, step work actually gave me freedom from all the things that had consumed my time and energy for years. I wanted to know how to stop obsessing about all that. When I just started doing the step work with my sponsor - taking the actions even though I didn't want to - things started to change. This is what people mean by "if nothing changes, nothing changes." I hope that you will find meetings that will provide the support and love you deserve - and those at the meetings will be so blessed to have you.

I already see so much change in you. I love every single post and reply on this thread - I love your honesty and the honesty others supplied in return. I have learned SO MUCH from all of you, and it's really enriched my life and my recovery.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda I was thinking, this would be a boundary ok?

He has set in stone he is going to smoke pot. So a boundary might be this. Ok A I understand your position. What I am going to make a boundary. If you smoke in the house, I won't be able to live with you.

And this would be becuz of the second hand smoke. Which is a real concern.It is protecting you.

In the US if you are in a house where there are illegal drugs and you are busted, even though you don't know it is there, and you don't use it, you are in trouble.

So another boundary can be, no illegal drugs in the house or I cannot live here.

NOT telling you to do these things. I am making examples of real boundaries.

Safety issues of you protecting yourself.

I am a, "cheat on me once, and bye." That is a boundary, and as soon as I found out, I did the divorce.

If you want to be with him in the bush and after what you told me ()I sure would not want to be!!! yikes, scarey!!! then we have to accept them and whatever they do. We cannot change it. It is his business.

Hey I do know exactly how you feel. I remember things going so nice, then all of a sudden he was gone and the "other one" was there. sigh

hugs hon,deb

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

evileye so... what I am understanding... I have told him I do not like being around him when he is stoned. I do want to spend time with him on the weekends. I am happy to occassionally go bush with him, probably near an isolated beach, and have some 'us' time away from the chores of the house. I am not happy to do this alot, but sometimes.

I know that means he will smoke. Ipso facto, i will be around him when he is stoned (or at least the 'come down' part if not the full on buzz).

Is this not hypocritical of me to say that "I don't want to be around you stoned but I am ok to attend an activity that I know you will smoke during." following that equation further would mean I couldn't plan anything with him at all cos he may smoke but I can't say I don't want him to cos that woudl be controlling.

is the lesson for me now something like... I have already told him I don't like it, stop telling him you don't like it, he knows you don't like it. If you chose to participate in an activity that you know he will smoke, then accept that at that particular time and do not tel lhim again that you don't like it if he smokes. So if he stoned in front of you, be ok with that, don't tell him again. If you don't think you want to be around it at that particular time (for whatever reason.... hormonal lets say), then don't go bush with him.

I just feel a bit hypocritical, or is that just self care doing what I feel is right at that particular time. When he totally disregards my feelings and is stoned when we go away, then too bad, don't do things with him ever again because bringing up the fact that I want it to be just us (not the three of us including the dope) is controlling him??

I just read back through my post and you know what..... Ithink you guys mean I can do whatever I want.. with our without him.. ifhe smokes or if he doesn't smoke.. it shouldnt matter.

It is ok to be around him if he is smoking. if I take off that boundary of 'dont be stoned around me', it opens up opportunities. If I am going to accept him (which I would like to) and be happy to be married to him, then I am also married to the monster that comes with him. If I am ok to want to go bush with them (him and the monster) then I do.. if I want to stay home because I don't want to go bush I want to do other things around the house or with friends... then I do regardless of him smoking or not.

If he has a smoke right next to me on the beach around the fire, then that should be ok, nah thats not right... no conversation then... but I could read a book or have an early night.

aaarrgghhh

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda, I also love reading your posts. When you first came to the site, my reaction was "Wow, she is really controlling." I thought that with an understanding that your husband is an addict and it's not your fault but that you were driving yourself totally nuts by trying to control it to the n'th degree. I do not see you that way any more because you are changing. I would remind you that change takes time and it's only been a couple months. You are taking a lot of feedback and trying to learn. I just wanted to give you credit for that.

Mark

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Yep you got it! Perfect. It is up to you if you can learn to be around him when he is doing whatever he is.

Lets say my son hunts. I want to go camping with him, but I don't want to see what he kills. Well that is my problem not his. So I go, do my best to ignore the murdering I hate. or I don't go.

I know how you feel, I had to accept my sweet husband and the other one I call a monster also.

hugs,deb

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks Mark, I am really trying hard here.

It is difficult for me to take feedback most times, I see most feedback as deep criticism that I am not good enough. I firmly believe wiht Homer Simpson, if at first you don't succeed, give up.

but I am determined to save my mind.

What I have done.. and I have no idea if this is healthy or not... I have put a little note in my iphone to myself.. I give you, (husbands name), permission to smoke dope.

This makes me feel like I have a control in my head over it, it tends my ego, Its like giving myself permission to be happy.

I know it sounds wrong and strange and egocentric and all those things and perhaps not in line with any good practice, but for now, I feel saner thinking I have given permission. Who knows why.

kris10 · Senior Member

Linda. If u are not going to any meetings (i havent been to any f2f alanon meetings) are u working the steps?? Im working the steps with path to recovery book. I really like it!! Ive been reading these posts on your thread the past couple days and what i was thinking is this... You can tell your husband a million different ways that he needs to stop but he never will until its on his own..until he is ready to work a program.. The same goes for us.. We can get as much ESH as we can, people can tell us a million different ways how we need to accept the A, let go, know that we cant control, Make boundries, ect ect BUT we truely cant do it until we are ready to really work the program ourselves. And as much we want it as much as we try, we cant move forward until we really really understand the first step.. It took me a year and a half to and trying everything i could to really get that i cant control it.. Sure i read things and got advice and talked to people about it but and even read the steps and tried to do what i was suppose to but i wasnt working a program.. Really working a program is what it takes and being ready to do so.. Hey we've tried eberything else right?!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.