"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Fiddleman · Member

Did Serenity Prayer cost me my son?

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Fiddleman,

I am so sorry for your loss. It's everyone's worst nightmare to loose a child and/or a sig other to addiction. I don't believe that the serenity prayer cost you your son. I believe that it was his addiction that took his life. We can't catch every slip our loved ones have and bring them back from the depths of their self harm. There is no rational reason why some people can abuse themselves on that level and don't die and others do. Like you said there is no right or wrong answer, it's a situation that is horrible however it just is.

Finding peace for oneself is the best thing any one of us can do for ourselves while the people we love dearest in the world are active in their specific addictions. When it's time for someone to pass it's time for them to go.

I am truly so sorry for your loss and the pain of loosing a child. There are no words of comfort that will lesson or rationalize the pain that one goes through. Pain is pain, especially when someone is living it at the present time.

Thank you so much for your share.

Hugs P :)

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your son.

I know from a somewhat similar family situation that it is so hard to resist the remorse and the thought that if only we had done this thing or that thing... The "What if"s can eat us alive. There are so many places where the path forks and we can think, "If only this had happened this other way..." And the fact is that those "if only"s are unknowable.

In the larger sense, everything I've seen has shown me that if addiction were controllable, there would be no addicts. We would love them out of their addiction. But even if we accompanied them everywhere, every minute of the day, we couldn't stop them endangering their lives and those of others. Like many people on these boards, I tried everything but everything to save my addict from the insanity of addiction. I'm sure you have a similar story: the constant vigilance, the checking up, the talks, the threats, the pleas, the programs researched and offered, the dashing to the rescue... If any of it could make any difference, it would. I wish we were not powerless. Sometimes we can avert the consquences for the short term, pay for their bail, pay for the lawyer, drive them places, take them to the hospital, pay their bills -- but they go on about their addiction until they decide they have to change. And sadly, most of them never achieve this. The statistics are that somewhere between 70% and 90% never recover. If we could change any of this, we would. Heavens knows we try, don't we? We certainly try a lot harder than they do, most of the time. If we could only live their lives for them... but the only person whose life we can live is ourselves.

That's the way I see it from everything I've experienced. Again, I'm so sorry.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

There are so many directions my answer wants to go but truth be told, I cannot because I do not walk in your shoes. My A only came into my life 3.5 years ago so I didn't have a lifetime of loving to lose. It has to be heart-wrenching to deal with this with a child - a child you watched come into the world, felt move inside, the first smiles, the unbridled giggles, the heartbroken tears at the death of a butterfly, every flower an adventure, every cloud an imagined friend; our children come in and create a space in our hearts for themselves, space that did not exist until they were born and breathed life into it - to imagine that space void, empty, filled with the sadness of never seeing those sparkling eyes again and echos of the laughter tearing at our souls. I cannot fathom how hard the decision to lock the door must be. It is easy to sit on my side of my world and think what I would do - a lot harder to live the life you had.

Did The Serenity Prayer cost you your son? no, opiates did. The prayer helped you deal with losing him to the opiates. The program helps us deal with losing the one we love to something we cannot control. Be well.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't have any answers for you fiddleman; I realize your questions are rhetorical in nature.

If I had the answers, I'd gladly give them to you.

I recall your prior post; you are a caring father; I know you did your best.

I'm very sorry about what happened to your son. Yours is a very personal journey. I hope you find solace in your own way.

Take good care, Gail

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

No, the serenity prayer did not kill your son. His addiction did as was stated by others. You still need the serenity prayer now because you cannot control that he died, you could not change his being an addict...and now you must accept all that has happened. The serenity prayers is a catch all life tool that all of us can benefit from using.

You know hindsight is 20/20. For example, I could have stopped all the car accidents I've ever been in from happening if I just didn't drive on those days. Therfore, I can say Driving sucks cuz it took 3 of my cars away.

Not to make any light on how serious the loss of your son is. But you see how trying to reason in hindsight doesn't really make sense. If we each had ESP, maybe we could hold ourselves more accountable for saving or not saving others. But the point is, we don't have ESP and that is why you were saying the serenity prayer that night. You were doing something healthy for you while your son was engaging in unhealthy behaviors for him. Your choosing healthy practices for you didn't cause the consequences of his unhealthy behavior. His unhealthy behavior caused it.

Anyhow, there is always a risk that our actively using loved ones will die from their drugs of choice. Regardless of your setting boundaries it happens. He could have died just as easy overdosing in your own home right under your nose.

I hope I didn't overstep any of my bounds here but you brought it up as "food for thought." I am so sorry for your loss.

Mark

rosielee · Senior Member

NO the serenity prayer did not cause you to lose your son.
i have known parents in yur situation and they think the same thing- but different versions- was i too strict- not strict enough.

i lay a lot of blame at my mums door- but heroin use cant be one of them- i used to smoke opiates. and this is something that was down to ME and me alone.

and I stopped it- and it was my decision.

some people are just born with various mental disorders, and this is nature- not nurture.

i had a terrible upbringing and i got clean- my friend who had a good and kind loving mum didnt get clean and has now passed away.

some people are just cursed with bad mental health...and i suspect your son was one of those people perhaps?

I hope nthing i have said in this post has upset you in any way...i did my best to try and be considerate and tacful and apologies if unwittingly i havent.

Im sorry for your loss. chances were- it wouldnt have made a bit of difference what actions you took- this was his path his bad mental health just drove him to take- despite of what anybody did.....and now im certain he is free of it.

usedtobeanyer · Senior Member

I'm not in a position to answer your question and I won't even try; I just want to say how sorry I am for your loss. I hope you & your family find peace; your higher power is there for you.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am sending you love and support at this time! I don't believe anything other than his addiction took your son from this earth. I have handed my A's over to my HP and I probably would find a way to blame myself even if they were hit by a car. My dad died several years ago and lived in Californai and I in Wisconsin and I still carry guilt for not calling him within the days before he died or visiting that year. Keep up the good program work and take care of yourself!

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

Fiddleman, I'm so very sorry for your loss. My sons are small and it's hard to think of them being adults and responsible for their own decisions. I haven't ever walked in your shoes, so I have no personal experience with a child that is an addict to contribute at the present time. However, I've had to let the addicts in my life go to make the decision for themselves to either keep using or stop. I don't believe that any of us have the power to change what other people are ultimately going to do or not do. All the times I followed my AH into the bathroom to make sure he didn't drink, I may've delayed him from drinking for a short period, but ultimately he was going to make whatever decision he made regardless of my actions. He always got drunk anyway, no matter whether I tried to intervene or let him go. My best intentions couldn't get him sober, my love couldn't get him sober, and no action I took could get him sober. It simply wasn't up to me.

Prayers, friend.

youfoundme · ~*Service Worker*~

I just wanted to say, from everything I have read and done and seen...I cannot do anything to save anyone, if they are in their addction, just like no one can save me from mine. The book that I am reading about a father's perspective on his own son's addiction, and maybe you already saw it or read it is "Beautiful Boy" by David Sheff. Great read. Addiction is so baffling, and all consuming and its not your fault... HUGS!!!!! Keep coming

rara avis · Senior Member

I am so sorry for you loss. No words are adequate.

From a sibling's point of view, I can assure you that addiction took your son. My sister had/has mental illness, and I watched my parents twist themselves into knots trying to fix her and help her, especially when my sister became an adult. This went on for years. There was absolutely nothing that they did or didn't do that would have made a difference. Only a higher power and my sister herself could have changed anything. Mental illness and addiction are brutal diseases. Take care of yourself, and keep coming back.

Blessings
rara avis

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Losing your son to this disease is such a tragedy, and unfortunately really brings home the 'life and death' reality of this disease....

Those 'whys and what ifs' are so difficult for any of us to get past, and even more difficult with the loss of a loved one...

Thankyou for being here Paul, and for posting this.... I sincerely believe that you did everything within your power to save your son - you were a good and loving father, and passed that along....

Blaming ourselves kind of contradicts the three C's (which I firmly believe to be true), and yet - interestingly enough, as human beings with feelings - we are quite willing to take on 'blame' of ourselves when things end up negatively - but if your son had chosen sobriety and lived a long and healthy life - I doubt very much that you would have given yourself "credit" for that..... In the end, as tragic as the result is - I don't believe you could have 'saved or prevented' this tragedy from occurring...

Take care

Tom

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

No. We are powerless over people (and places and things.)

Powerless.

Powerless.

Powerless.

When my brain gets confused, its usually because there is something about reality that I am resisting. Surely you tried to "help" him before, and surely you learned how futile that was. Surely you came to al-anon because you too were drowning in the insanity.

Part of my dis-ease is my habit of doubting... doubting myself and the decisions I make for myself. The goal is to build my recovery on a foundation of TRUST with Higher power.

I have a 27 year old son who I am very worried about. I have invited him to AA. I have offered him the Big Book. I have shared my ESH... and in desperation, I have also been completely OFF my side of the street. He doesn't want it. Actually, on occasion, he seems to listen, he seems to want it, and that's when I begin to believe I have some kind of power. But his addiction cycle always circles around again and he wants NONE of it, he is not asking for recovery. When I think I have some power.... it's an illusion.

I am told that he is NEVER going to "hear" recovery from me, his mother. He just won't. I have to admit, I don't know anyone in AA who came in because of their parents. So... I try not to go there anymore.

My son has talked about killing himself. I do what I can to "help." Ultimately, he has to want to reach out to his Higher power, I dont' have the power to save anyone. He is on his own path to Higher power, we all have to choose what that path is going to be like.

I am so sorry for your loss, my friend. I hope you are able to quiet your mind and rest in your own Higher power again, because from where I sit... your dis-ease is trying to mess with you. ((big hugs))

-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 11:35:41 AM

-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 11:38:50 AM

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I can give you my own ESH. I was involved with a man who eventually got sick with a liver disease (no doubt caused by his drug use) and a genetic disease (which came out of nowhere). Both were fatal. At some point he went and got treatment (he had access to wonderful care with the VA). His liver disease got better. His genetic disease got worse.

By that time I had left him and moved out. I had very little money. He left himself destitute. He qualified for all kinds of aid. He went out and alienated everyone, his mother, his brother, his friends. He counted on that I would always be "there" for him. My being "there" included paying his rent, feeding him and dealing with his endless crises.

As I was barely surviving myself I opted at a certain point to stop paying his rent. He found assistance elsewhere. I also opted to stop feeding him and listening to his crises. He found assistance elsewhere, in fact he had them up his sleeve all the time.

During this time he was acting out all the time. I had bought a truck which I allowed him to use. He totalled the truck, took all the insurance money and spent it all on himself. He didn't pay one cent towards that truck.

Meantime he continued acting out in various ways, his storage (where he had put all "his" belongings meaning everything he could lay his hands on.... regardless of whether I paid for it or whether it belonged to me....

At a certain point I stopped taking his calls.

Would you say I contributed to his demise. His demise was orchestrated entirely by him, and only him. His difficult situation was orchesterated by him and only him and his decisions were orchestrated by him and only him.

I've been in the position of meeting a friend who was suicidal on the night she decided to go home and 'do' it. I went through all her options, she had plenty. She was so ill she could not see any. Short of sitting with her all night there was nothing I could do/say and act on and there are no guarantees. I take no responsibility for her decision and I'm willing to allow her the dignity of making it on her own. I certainly didn't encourage her! She also had psychiatrists, friends, lots of people to count on. She chose to go kill herself at that point because she couldn't go on.... I've always believed in my codependence that there is something one can do..but sometimes there isn't.

If I were that powerful to stop the ex A's demise believe me I would have done it. I gave it all, money, energy, my health, my heart, my entire being. Nothing but nothing stopped his incessant acting out and he alone is responsible for it. He had many many resources with the VA and other areas he took none of them.

The same goes for my friend. I certainly gave it my all, 2 hours of counseling. I walked away knowing I had done all I could. I let go. Letting go is so so hard.

I know plenty of people who put themselves on the slow suicide march day and day out. Nothing I can say to them makes any difference, no prayer makes a difference, no actions make a difference. They are hell bent on destroying themselves. I'm at a point where I no longer wonder why.

Maresie.

-- Edited by maresie on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 05:39:26 PM

Ruby · Veteran Member

Fiddleman, my heart aches for you, both my adult kids are A/A's, so I'm a breath away from the same predicament, it could happen any time in many different ways. I've made a great deal of progress in detaching, I'm sure I would feel some guilt if something happened to them and I would have to turn it over to my HP (God). What I know for sure, He will heal a broken heart, He did after I lost my husband. Anyway, I send you loving and comforting thoughts, knowing your HP will keep you in his loving arms.....With love...Ruby!

lasthope · Veteran Member

Dear Fiddleman,

I cannot imagine the pain you've been experiencing and you have my sympathy.
Your son lost his life to an incurable disease that changes the brain
and the way it functions. Take care of yourself and be patient with yourself.
You most likely did the best you could.

LH

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Paul when we grieve the process does bring us to times of questioning, was I a part of this? Could I have stopped this?

Took me seven years to stop blaming myself for my husbands death. He had driven home with our two babies in the van, drunk. I was soooo upset, so upset. I told him I was getting a divorce, I was NOT chancing this bolony again. I loved him to death, but I had to protect our children!

He was super upset, crying. He was the coolest, funniest person. NOT a mean bone in his body. Felt horribly guilty. He got in his van and left.

I found out his Van broke down, he walked for at least 15 miles to a friends place torn apart.

That night he went with this friend to a huge concert his friend was playing at to help set up etc. He drank hard stuff all night. It was only fifteen min from where i live now at this beautiful reservoir.

He wanted to come home, so he tried to hitch hike after the event was over. Tons of traffic. He got ran over.

Took him a week to die as I slept on the floor and in a waiting room for seven days.

I woke up next to him and FELT him die.

Should I have tried again?Should I have gone to Al Anon? He was so sweet how dare I say I will get a divorce. Did I kill him by not forgiving? Did I kill him becuz I knew he loved me so very much and needed me?

for seven years I tortured myself. Then it hit me, he would have forgiven me, and I him, no question. I would have been more rational and suggested I go to Al Anon and he had talked about AA before but we were only 26 and 27 years old. Back then AA and all that was rarely talked about.

But Paul I believed I had killed my husband and some of his A friends said I did to others too. Then I proceeded to have my Mother take my kids off and on and drink champayne and eat qualudes and fall asleep in the bathtub!!!

How could I live with knowing I killed my beautiful curly blond haired southern boy husband?

I was a health nut pretty good girl hippie. ,NEVER took drugs yet, look what grieving did!

His friends apologized to me, I finally found serenity. But I KNOW that feeling and only YOU can ease your pain. Your son would NEVER want you to take it as your fault. never!!!!

It would tear him apart to know that. We have NO control over anyones death,nothings, not even our own! We can only do our best to be as careful as we can.

Even if you had called him, he probably would have done it up anyway! As a parent we of course always, always want to help our kids at no matter what age. If my son was up in the mountains and cut himself and I did not teach him how to stop bleeding, and he died I am SURE I would hate myself for not teaching him!

It's our drive to protect our kids. It is HORRIBLE to lose some one who is so much a part of us. It never goes away, never. We learn to live with it, but sometimes the pain knocks our feet out from under us and we are sobbing again!

Paul for me it changed my life. big time. My kids too. I carry around this nausea inside me and want to throw up my life sometimes. But most times now, my beliefs tell me I will see him again and I know I will.

Still miss him and how it feels not to live with this pain. Been 30 years now!

Hon you know in your heart it was NEVER your fault. You would have done anything to stop it.

Sending you hugs, and deep understanding. debilyn

-- Edited by Debilyn on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 10:10:44 PM

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Fiddleman,

I wanted to send you thoughts of love and prayers for you and your family through this difficult time.

In support,

Tommye

Linda77 · Member

Fiddleman,

I am new and not sure if my support is needed, but I wanted to tell you I feel your pain. I don't suppose we'll ever know whether or not we could have saved someone...my own mother died from an overdose of prescription pain medication...she had migrane headaches...she went to the emergency room for a shot, then later that night, she woke up, forgot she had gone to the hospital, and took more medication. My little brother (15 years old) found her the next morning.

Mama called me before she went to the hospital...I knew she was upset and not feeling well...for many years, I blamed myself for not getting out of bed and driving to her house. Maybe if I had been there, I could have stopped it...I don't know...I'll never know. But, one thing helped me cope...one ngiht, when the pain was almost unbearable, I dreamed of her....we were talking on the telphone...like we always did....then, as she was talking it dawned on me (even in my dream) that she was gone...I screamed in the phone, "Mama, don't hang up...please, don't hang up." Then in her sweet sweet voice, she said, "Linda, you've got to go on." I knew it was her....I can't understand how it happened, or why, but that was my mother.

Could you have saved your son? Maybe. But, what if you got there in time to save his life but not his quality of life? If the amount of heroin was enough to cost him his life...think what it could have done short of that. My father died of cancer. The week before he died, I called M.D. Anderson...they said, Linda, we knew we were coming to this. You can bring him in...and we can prolong his life...but, he may never get out of the hospital again. He is home...where he is happy and where he wants to be. I drove to his house that day and sat by his side until he passed. Was I wrong? Should I have rushed him 70 miles to M.D. Anderson (as we had been doing for 14 years)? When you answer me, remember, you are answering you own question. God bless you Fiddleman. And thank you.

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

Fiddleman, I am sorry this has happened to you and it is a terrible time you are going through. When my baby daughter died I could not believe in any form or HP who would do such a thing to me or anyone. That was 21 years ago. I still have a hard time with 'mainstream' religion, I believe the universal energy and vibration joins us all and gives us insight to a collective consciousness.

What I got from this post is that the HP was working for both of you at the same time. You say he died at the time you were reciting the serenity prayer, your son was taking the overdose. I see that the angels/HP were asking for and offering release from both of you. You tried to call, you did what you could do. The HP knew what was happening and offered you a form of serenity.
In some religions, when the soul is leaving the body, if the last word they hear is "krishna" then they are guaranteed an entry to their heaven (I may have some of the details wrong).
Death is so horrible for those of us left behind. We can't control what the plan is that the HP of your belief sets out, but I do believe that you were given an opportunity to find serenity at the time that the HP was working for bothof you.
I hope that makes sense, at times I can have a bit of a 'different' take on things so Ihope I have not offended you,but that is what I got from your post and it helps to remind me that the HP does work in very strange ways

Fiddleman · Member

I want to sincerely thank everyone who has responded to my post about my son dying and the Serenity Prayer I said that night. I knew I would find alot of support here. I need to keep moving in the program, reach out to others. We have all been touched by addiction in one way or another and you all can feel my pain, and that helps me. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You....

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

HEllo Fidleman

I am so very sorry that you have suffered such a painful loss to this disease.. I would just like to reassure that the serenity prayer did not cause the loss of your precious son. Leaving a situation in our Higher Powers hands does not guarantee we will receive the out come we desire.

I too lost a son to this dreadful illness. I was living in his home, had heard him awake in the night and went into the room. He was FINE!!! We talked, he had a glass of water and the next AM I found him passed away.

Although it was a terrible blow, and very painful I have come to acceptance of HPs will and have started to include all the wonderful memories I have of my son in my gratitude list each day. This way he is stiil very close to my heart in a psoitive manner

Please keep coming back

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"