Last night - Al-Anon Family Group

KLotus · Senior Member

Last night

rrib · Senior Member

'aside from working on myself, I feel like the only other thing I can do is ignore my AH's behaviors'

exactly

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

This is a tough situation. I've read that many divorces happen when there's an infant and I can believe it. It's hard enough to get through the frustration, stress, lack of sleep, and lack of control even when all your conflict skills are top-notch and your marriage has been strong. For people with limited skills for dealing with stress, like alcoholics, even more so. My exAH flipped in the first years after we had a baby because his old methods of coping, for instance disappearing randomly so he could go drink, worked a lot less well when our schedules had to be planned and reliable.

It's also so challenging to know what's our problem and what's theirs. I'm struck by the irony, though, that your husband insists that during a disagreement you shouldn't leave the room no matter what, and his method of dealing with a disagreement is to get in the car and leave the property -- not just go to the next room!

One therapist I saw with my husband -- before it became clear that no therapy would work without sobriety -- said that if one of us became overwhelmed during a disagreement, they should say something like, "I'm feeling overwhelmed and I need to be alone to calm down. I'm going to go into the [whatever room]. Let's meet to discuss this again in an hour and a half [or whatever amount of time that's not too soon and not too long]." She said she and her husband do that themselves. That means the "left" person doesn't feel walked out on and the overwhelmed person gets a chance to get calmer. My guess is that if your husband had said, "I'm overwhelmed and I need a chance to calm down. I'm going over to Joe's, and we'll continue to discuss this at so-and-so time," even if it hadn't made you happy, it would have made you less upset than the way he did it. My point is that I think if we do something healthy in a disagreement (like the thing my therapist suggested), we've done our part, and if they can't rise to the occasion, at least we know we did what we could.

It's hard, though, when you're not on the same page about how to handle conflict. I don't know if you have a meeting or a sponsor, but they help many people do much. A number of meetings have free childcare.

Hugs.

youfoundme · ~*Service Worker*~

KLotus... HUGS!
I just wanted to say, that keep up your work on you. When you are ready you will know what to do. That is what I ahve been told. Working the steps with a sponsor will help you make your decision more soundly. For now, do what you need to do to be safe. Do the next right thing for you. Go to meetings and know you can always come here and talk. Private message me if you need anything ok! HUGS!

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

KLotus.

One of your comments was that you need to fix things, and yes, most of us here do. We have a compulsion to fix things. Many have worked on that and many, like me, are learning about it.

You also ask what can you do, what did you do that was right and wrong. These are common questions also. Can I expand on that, do you honestly believe that if YOU had done something different, HIS sick reaction would have been different? Were you trying to control his reaction and anger, or were you trying to deal with your own anger and feelings? In my experience, it wouldn't have mattered what I did, if he wanted an argument he would ahve found one. I know I can find one inside my own head if I want one, and sometimes my husband isn't even home and he is introuble!!! Poor bloke hehe... your man would have been angry no matter what.

Yes you engaged briefly, that is natural, but you then removed yourself and it was HIS anger that continued. He had a choice to calm down and you gave him that opportunity, good on you.

You said, "I felt like at times he was deliberately bating me." Maybe not consciously, but it could be possible that he was bating you. the fact he doesn't like you leaving the room says to me that he likes a good argument and he may then feel justified because you argued back. I learnt on here to drop the rope and the tug of war game finishes. that one is good for me because I hate sports. At school I would deliberately get hit by the dodge ball so I was 'out'

You say he feels like you didn't listen. IN my experience, the louder the words are shouted, the harder they are to hear.

Finally, enjoy this time to relax and regroup. Dont' over think it like we tend to do. dont' try to analyse it. Analysing means we are trying to work out how to fix it. Plus.. there is no reasoning wiht this stuff.

So much of what you say rings true to me in past relationships and I can feel it all over again when you type your stuff. I guess thats good because I thought I didn't have many feelings about my past. I guess sitting here at a computer allows me the freedom to have the feelings, in the safety of my own home, with no one watching me, and then I can empathise with you and maybe myself a little bit.

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

The ex A who I was with used to play games on the computer for literally weeks on end. He could hold up and not come out unless it was to eat something (which of course I provided).

I used to take it all very very personally.

I do believe many an A expects people around them to be superhuman.

I'm not are you?

Maresie.

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Once, my exAH said he thought of me as an extension of himself, like an extension of his arm. I found that to be an interesting comment. Of course, him thinking of me that way/ treating me that way didn't work for either of us.

When we need to speak, two way conversations can be very limited. He often becomes annoyed/ rude and interrupts and says, "Are ya listening!?"

I am still practicing, practicing, practicing not engaging/ walking away... to try and deliver the message quickly and be gone- if he doesn't let it happen to be gone. I often need to remind myself this is a reflection of him and has nothing to do with me. Progress, not perfection.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

It seems to me that you keep trying to accept unacceptable behavior. It's tricky, tut the goal here is not to accept everything. You asked what to do. My suggestion would be to make a list of things you you 1. can accept, 2. might be able to accept, and 3. will never accept. Following that, you can draw boundaries for what you will do when he engages in things you will never accept.

The codependent in us thinks that we should accept everything and that "a good partner is understanding" and accepts their spouse no matter what. Well, that just isn't reality and it's not healthy. Your husband seems to know that you are prone to be this way and that is why a relationship dynamic of bully/victim keeps going on and on and on.

It sounds like you truly see yourself without options and being totally trapped. You do have options and choices. I think it's best accept what is reasonable and try to change how we deal with things that are simply unacceptable.

I hear nothing about alcohol in your posts. I hear bullying, emotional abuse, manipulation, and cruelty. It I am off the mark, forgive me. This is just how I see it.

Mark

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

If you had a chance to get away from the madness and realize, hey this is not normal life, I am sure you would know what to do.

A mom is always on for their kids. Of course you were tired! Of course you wondered how you could help your little one. We have the right to cry anytime we need to, an NO ONE ha the right to tell us different or tell us what OUR crying means!

Most men do not understand the changes a woman goes thru when they are pregnant, then deliver then are raising a baby. We go thru huge hormone changes that affect everything about us. We have a hard enough time trying to figure out ourselves during this time, we don't need anyone questioning or condemning us.

And how many moms would take off and leave their baby and new dad?

The disease makes us so sick we forget that we deserve respect. Even if we are a bit off, so what!? How long do you think a person can walk on eggshells? We are who we are.

I don't see anywhere where you did anything wrong. Sounds to me you are doing your best in a tough situation.

Remember A's are selfish beyond belief. I can see guys feeling jealous of the attention the kid gets! The dads I know and knew would say honey go lay down let me go tend to the kiddo. Not stomp off.

For me, I decided to raise my two alone. This will sound awful but I kept thinking, I am a widow, I have two babies to raise, why would I want a guy when I already have two kids to raise?

I guess I could have said it in one sentence I believe you are too hard on yourself.YOu need POSITIVE reinforcement, love, respect.

I learned to give that to myself. If a guy ever comes around who treats me right great. But becuz of lots of work, and Al anon I won't take any bolony anymore. Enjoy that baby. It goes so fast you will not believe it! My babies are 35 and 36 with a boy each. I still want my kids to come home!

What is most important to you honey? love,debilyn

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

btw, I LOVED Marks resply! hugs again! debilyn

lasthope · Veteran Member

K this is what I read:
Baby is fussy at late bedtime. Wife/Mother, who works a full time job, tries to calm
baby and put it to bed.
Husband/Father does nothing to help mother or baby. Rather he gives W/M attitude,
shows his impatience and frustration. W/M cries.
H/F throws a tempter tantrum, dismisses W/M's feelings as manipulative,
speeds off in his car, talks over W/M on the phone and hangs up on her.
When you read this, how does it sound?

Take care of yourself and you'll find your way. You and your baby are in my heart.

Dr. Harvey Karp's books about the Happiest Baby on the Block and the Happiest Toddler
on the Block are incredibly helpful for new parents. I taught child development and parenting
at the high school level and reviewed many parenting books. Those were among my favorites.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Funny how THEY make us cry then call our tears manipulative. I know what you want from him, from someone anyway - someone to come into the room, take fussy baby from your arms, kiss you gently on the forehead and tell you to go sleep, he'll take care of the fuss budget. I know, me want him too, or one like him. I'm sorry.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

When you become empowered, the tears will turn to just being annoyed and mad. Then you will start to expect better treatment and changes will occur by your boundaries or by your ending things.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

The crying thing was on my mind a lot yesterday, couldn't shake the song"She never cried in front of me" by Toby Keith. There's a line that goes "if she had given me a sign, that would have opened up my eyes" - thinking about that line, we give signs, I know we do; for me, if you've driven me to tears you've pushed me pretty far. I get quiet - used to scare the heck outta my kids because they knew that they had really screwed up if I couldn't talk to them, ha! I am driven to rushing to wrap my arms around someone who is crying in front of me, because I know that tears are the sign that someone is close to the edge of a cliff and needs help. While I think it's true there are those who do use tears to manipulate, I think its more true that most don't.

I wonder KLotus, if yours is not like mine - a mysoginist, man who outwardly seems to love women but inside where it counts, reallly hates them. We were at a restaurant and a little girl was doing piroettes (sp?) on the carpet near our table - so so cute, and he says, just like a woman, has to be the center of attention. My mind went, HUH? She was probably no more than 4 years old! Little jabs like that when taken as a whole led me to the word mysoginist. All women are this, leave it to women to pull that kind of...., stupid women drivers, must have been done by a woman, cheating witch, dirty, wench, etc. with a lot nastier words always used to describe whatever offending woman he was talking about. Guess here is where getting to know someone over a long span of time comes into play - giving them enough time to show their true colors and paying attention to any "ALL" statements.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

There is a huge difference between using tears to manipulate and being so far on the edge that it's a release. I was married to a man who cried .. now at first I appreciated the fact he could express himself by way of tears. That later turned to disgust .. I know .. talk about a double standard. It was weird. There is a time to cry and a time to deal with a situation. However, he had verbalized at one point that he knew "his dad would feel he'd gotten the message if he cried". Soooo every time the man cried it was always at a point where we were having to deal with real life. Ironically he was a drug addict. If a man were to cry in front of me now my first response would be looking at the situation first and then the emotional release. I grew up in the house where tears were TOTALLY used to manipulate. I'm a solo crier, I remember this past year breaking down in front of my kids, it had been a long night and I was at the end of my rope. AH was in full blown acting out his addiction. My daughter was so shocked and God love that girl. She verbalized later she knew things were really bad if I was crying, because it was the first time she'd ever seen me cry. That's not a brag that's a oh crap, that's not good either. Crying is a healthy release and it's ok. It's still hard for me to allow myself to go there in front of others.

My experience with crying has been more manipulative than not, so it's interesting the experiences we have all had regarding this issue.

LMH, I know I'm totally cross talking at this point (sorry!) however you really got me to thinking about the misogynist issue. LOL .. the first time I used that word where I live now I was looked at like I had grown three heads. Literally no one had heard the term before in my circle.

Hugs P :)

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