Dating a Woman in Recovery - Al-Anon Family Group

Devon · Newbie

Dating a Woman in Recovery

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Devon,

Welcome to MIP, I am so glad you are here. I myself do not have experience in dating a person in recovery. Stick around awhile, there will be someone along shortly who may have some experience to share with you.

Keep coming back!

Tommye

linbaba · Veteran Member

I have dated a few women in recovery over the years (having been in AA for the last 20 years myself) and have never encountered, nor even heard of this specific thing as having anything whatsoever to do with the fact they are in recovery or not, if she is actually working a solid Program, she will be rigorously honest with you, and have the ability to navigate complex emotional situations with some good tools, like she won't have more or less problems then a non alcoholic as it were, but will have tools enough to say "I am afraid, I feel hurt" to own her part etc agood rule of thumb on whether or not she actually works a good program is if she uses this "stuff" she has learned to "tell on herself" and "own her part" and be honest and vulnerable, chances are she is working a good program, if she uses this stuff to take YOUR inventory and you are frequently uncomfortable and have a feeling of confusion and unease, frequently feel manipulated and controlled, she uses the word "fine" a lot when she is upset, and makes passive aggressive attacks instead of communicating, she isn't really that evolved in her program, and could probably do with going to some CODA meeting or Al-anon quite frankly, scratch an alcoholic and uncover a codependent, as in most cases they are raised in alcoholic homes

I have however learned a few things about dating in general:

They always give you the information, relationships are a bit like movies, there is no such thing as a surprise ending, so if I was dating a woman who was talking about dating other people, when she started dating other people I wouldn't be surprised

People tell us who they are, but we ignore it, because we want them to be who we want them to be.

One of the things -I- have learned to do is actually communicate, things like my boundaries, my feelings, my fears, using your situation as an example, when she states "maybe we should see other people" I might say some things like:

for myself, I am not interested in seeing other people, I only "date" ie sleep with and have emotional entanglement with one person at a time, but I'm interested in hearing more about this, do you have physical and/or emotional needs that aren't being met by this relationship? Do you feel it's time to take this relationship to the next level or do you feel our geographic situation is such that we need to back off and plan about not having this work out?

Like, find out what's going on, I have found it's OK to say things like "This statement frightens me a bit, I have a pretty hefty level of emotional commitment here, and I would be pretty uncomfortable and hurt if that is really something you would like to do, as it is a pretty good indication of where you feel the relationship is headed, I would like to go the other direction, ie greater commitment and growing closer, do you have any ideas how we could achieve that?"

and setting boundaries, such as "If you DO feel it's necessary to date other people (and I am strictlly stating my own-LinBaba's boundary, it needn't be yours) I will have to move on, as I am not interested in sharing you with anyone, that would be just setting myself up for heartbreak"

It's pretty early, and I haven't had my coffee but my point is, communication is key, and half of communication is LISTEN, if she is talking about about dating other people it's obvious she is not getting her needs met for some reason or another, this isn't about good or bad, or alcoholic or non alcoholic, red flags, or how good her program is, this is about healthy open lines of communication, if I am emtionally invested in someone I communicate, and I try to watch their feet (watch what they are doing as opposed to what they are saying) like if she says "I love you" but never answers the phone, makes frequent and nasty comments and is passive aggressive, the "I love you" and the actions aren't matching, but if she is calling you, bringing you little "nesting" things, whether it be small gifts, emails, texts, just tokens of affection, she's into you

contrary to popular belief women (and men) aren't complicated, it just takes paying attention to the information that is being given to you, and if you have questions about the level of emotional commitment, communicate, now one thing you mention is you two haven't used the "L" word even after dating for 9 months, maybe that's the reason she's uncertain about the future, because the messages she is getting is one of lack of commitment, and her asking if you think it's a good idea to date other people is HER way of asking about your level of commitment

it's all speculation, so personally when I have questions about what's going on in a relationship I ask questions, I also clarify my position, such as "Hey, I am really into you and would like to see this be a commited relationship, how do you feel about that?"

saves so much heartbreak it's ridiculous, talk about what's going on, own your part, own your feelings and communicate them, ask questions openly and listen, and I have learned that using "I feel" will gain me an ally as opposed to an antagonist, such as "I am afraid" instead of "you should" or something

I hope this was helpful, I am having difficulty expressing myself this morning, been working quite a bit, then kind of burning the candle at both ends myself, staying up late restoring an old classic car and dating a girl who lives about an hour away myself, opps, gotta go, there's my morning "nesting call" from her LOL

good luck

communicate

onewholovesrock · Member

I hate to say this, maybe it's different with her. But I say similiar things to my girlfriend because I don't really want to be with her. Hoping she eventually gets the hint and leaves. She never dose! She ignores it all. I just can't be direct to her about how I really feel. (That's why I'm trying al anon) Maybe she's being the same way to you. She just can't come out directly and hurt your feelings. Some people just can't find it in themselves to do that to other people directly. So she drops little hints around hoping you will finally understand without hurting you. This is just an observation from your post. Because this is exactly what I do to my girlfriend unfortunatly. I could be way off.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

You have recieved some great replies. I would agree with more communication. Be brutally honest. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean. It is only fair to both of you to know exactly where you are in this relationship. Are you more serious about it than she is? You should know and the only way to know is to ask.... and then make sure that you are getting an honest answer out of her. Sometimes people flit around the truth because they don't want to hurt your feelings.

linbaba · Veteran Member

onewholovesrock wrote:
I say similiar things to my girlfriend because I don't really want to be with her. Hoping she eventually gets the hint and leaves. She never does! She ignores it all. I just can't be direct to her about how I really feel.

(sic I can't) just can't come out directly and hurt (her) feelings. Some people just can't find it in themselves to do that to (communicate with and walk through uncomfortable emotions) other people directly. So (i) drops little hints around hoping you will finally understand without hurting you.
This is just an observation from your post. Because this is exactly what I do to my girlfriend unfortunatly.

Thank You SO much for your brutal honesty about yourself, for me it would be foolish to assume or speculate what the OP's GF's motives are until I talked to her, but what you wrote is exactly what I was addressing what it looks like to date someone without a program, and it's incredibly de-stabilizing to be on the other side of a relationship like this, it's like being in a horror movie and all your friends are screaming "don't go back into the house" because they all know what is going to happen but you have convinced yourself it's all your imagination, and the boogyman isn't real, and you literally begin to doubt your own reality, because you have someone saying "I love you, I love you" and pushing you away as hard as they can, then you ask "what's wrong what's wrong" they say "nothing" then you start freaking out and yelling "WTH is going on???" and the response is "you are crazy, you are delusional, there is nothing going on" until they get angry enough to overcome their fear and finally be honest with you, as in I don't like you, and I don't want to be with you, and here's everything that is wrong with you, because people/we try to sweep resentments under the rug and they come out in a thousand little passive aggressive ways, totally destabilizing one partner in the relationship, when sponsees and friends come to me with this feeling, where they begin to doubt their own reality, and have discomfort without knowing why, I refer them to articles about being in abusive relationships and passive aggressive relationships, also refer them to Pia Melody's articles/books about Love Addiction/Love Avoidance

I try to teach them to "watch the feet" as in pay attention to what actions are taking place and stop listening to what is being said, like "I am sorry I can't can't hear what you are saying over the loud noise your actions are making, I have absolutely fallen prey to this sort of relationship, and the change occurs so slowly, so gradually, we don't know a change has occured and we keep going back to the well where we once found love and wonder why it's dry most of the time, it literally makes the person crazy, there is a term for it called "gaslighting" saying one thing and doing another, one thing I learned about lying, my lying, but lying is it's not done to "protect" the other person, but to protect ourselves from the consequences of telling the truth, lying comes from a place of fear and is never not unfair to the person being lied to, I learned when I tell the truth it's no longer my problem, but when I lie the outcome and consequences are "my problem" and one of the most important things I ever learned was " This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man

It was being on the other side side of a relationship just like this one that landed me in Alanon and Coda, and I refer to it as my relationship with an abusive person, good for you for seeking help

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/Pass_Agg.htm

http://coda.activeboard.com/t41485576/codependent-or-relationship-addiction/

*********

I got some PM's from my earlier post, and in one someone asked me to describe men's cues/nesting behaviors

So: men and women are absolutely different, just not complicated

when a man's actions match his words he's invested, men aren't complicated, they are actually a bit like Labrador retrievers, if they run up and are friendly, and are willing to spend all day chasing the ball you throw, they are in, if they wander away and play elsewhere they aren't, women are like cats, you have to hold still until they feel safe, approach you and start doing tail drags, head butts and purrs, then they like being pet, and cuddled it really helps me to visualize cats and dogs for men and women, it simplifies things a bit and helps navigate the situation

some examples:

Her Diary

Tonight, I thought my husband was acting weird.

We had made plans to meet at a bar to have a drink. I was shopping with my friends all day long, so I thought he was upset at the fact that I was a bit late, but he made no comment on it. Conversation wasn't flowing, so I suggested that we go somewhere quiet so we could talk. He agreed, but he didn't say much. I asked him what was wrong. He said, 'Nothing' I asked him if it was my fault that he was upset. He said he wasn't upset, that it had nothing to do with me, and not to worry about it.

On the way home, I told him that I loved him. He smiled slightly, and kept driving. I can't explain his behavior. I don't know why he didn't say, 'I love you, too.'

When we got home, I felt as if I had lost him completely, as if he wanted nothing to do with me anymore. He just sat there quietly, and watched TV. He continued to seem distant and absent.Finally, with silence all around us, I decided to go to bed.

About 15 minutes later, he came to bed. To my surprise, he responded to my caress, and we made love. But I still felt that he was distracted, and his thoughts were somewhere else. He fell asleep -I cried.

I don't know what to do. I'm almost sure that his thoughts are with someone else. My life is a disaster.

His Diary

My Harley wouldn't start today****************************

Dogs Diary Vs. Cats Diary

EXCERPTS FROM A DOGS DIARY
Day number 180
8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
1:00 pm OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE!

Day number 181
8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
1:00 pm OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE!

Day number 182
8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
1:00 pm OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
1:30 pm - ooooooo. bath. bummer.
4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE

EXCERPTS FROM A CATS DIARY

DAY 752 - My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furnitureTomorrow I may eat another houseplant.

DAY 761 - Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the stairs. In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors,I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chairmust try this On their bed.

DAY 765 - Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body in attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat I was Not working according to plan.

DAY 768 - I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good reason I was chosen for the water torture. This time however it included a burning foamy chemical called shampoo. What sick minds could invent such a liquid. My only consolation is the piece of thumb still LODGED between my teeth.

DAY 771 - There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary throughout the event, however, I could hear the noise and smell the foul odor of the glass tubes they call beer. More importantly I overheard that my confinement was due to MY power of allergies. Must learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage.

DAY 774 - I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit. The bird on the other hand has got to be an informant, and he speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my activities. Due to his current placement in the metal room his safety is assured. But I can wait, it is only a matter of time

of course this is all just "me" and doesn't reperesent the views of anyone else or Al-anon as a whole, it's just my experience, and as such can be totally ignored, which is why we have the saying "take what you like and leave the rest"

-- Edited by linbaba on Friday 2nd of September 2011 03:16:28 PM

-- Edited by RLC on Friday 2nd of September 2011 03:29:48 PM

-- Edited by RLC on Friday 2nd of September 2011 03:32:56 PM

-- Edited by RLC on Friday 2nd of September 2011 03:37:09 PM

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Linbaba,

I just love the his and her diary and the dog and cat diary. That really had me going. Thank you for the laughter.

linbaba · Veteran Member

thank YOU Tommy, I always love what you have to say, so happy to be of service lol

Hey RLC there is a way to change the title/cover on links to hide them, if you name it something like "article about abuse", highlight it, then click the link emblem it brings up a box that you can put the link in, thereby removing that offensive B word, that is a recovery site for abused women, so kind of understand why you removed the link, but there are options as a moderator, also, as a mod over at our MIP CODA Forum generally speaking if I edit or delete someones post I send them a friendly PM explaing why and showing them what "rule" they broke, can't PM since I'm on my cell, sorry to put this message here

I will find that article on a different site and repost it later, since it was the single most important article i have ever read and made me realize I was in an abusive relationship and lead me to seek help to get out of it

thanks, once again, apologies for communicating with you here, I cant PM from my cell phone

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

devon to be honest I don't know what her being in recovery has to do with anything. She is who she is. Recovery or growth is forever.

It's not like it is a catagory for a kind of person y ou know? My A was in years of great recovery.

I know others too. Every person is different. One lady in recovery is different from another.

We have NO idea what someone else is thinking, does no good to analyze. For me when I don't quite "get" something, I simply ask.

So what you are saying is we should see others if it comes up? I ask for clarity.

As far as the last statement: So you are saying your life is one day at a time and see how things go?

I am like that. Does not mean I don't want a future with someone. Myself I take one day enjoy that and go on. Growth goes however it does.

I met a guy in recovery. Allowed it to just be what it was. When I met him face to face he was saying when I come to your place or when you come up to mine. I was thinking, um I have met you one time. I don't even know you!

His recovery was never on my mind. It is none of my business. I don't want to hear about it. I mean I am very very happy he is doing better of course.

There are many ways you or we can take what she has said. That is moot, again it always is very ok to ask for clarity!

Hugs,debilyn

oh and ps. now this is MY experience, NO two boy and girl kids, not related should EVER be left to their own devices. A person is asking for HUGE trouble. Acting like brother and sister? Maybe in front of you.

Believe me,seen it, heard about it a thousand times!

Doozy · Senior Member

Great discussion! Linbaba, I just loooved your posts about men and women in relationships. Devon, I agree that more direct communication might be the key for you. She may need you to let her know how you feel about the situation. Given her past, there may be a lot of fear to get close. ~Doozy

Devon · Newbie

Thanks for the reply. She usually is pretty clear and we do communicate pretty well. She has told me on occassion that she doesn't know what the future brings...and I have responded by saying..that's why it's called the future. I believe that she wants to be committed but wants to be certain...and after asking for clarification...she did tell me that she is not looking or searching and would tell me if there is someone she would like to go out with if that ever occurred. ...and I am comfortable that she is telling me the truth. We've only been dating 9 months...that's really not a long time...by any standard. We continue to plan things to do together. Yes...honesty is the prescription.

I asked her if she ever gets nervous about making the leap forward in our relationship. She says she does...because she allowed herself to be controlled for 23 years. She is slow in moving towards a commitment. She has even told me...I move slowly because I've been down the other path when things moved too fast, and it has been a dissaster. I can appreciate that...because that hasn't worked for me either. I do like the analogy made between women and cats. It's ok to be cautious. She and I have definately been closer and are also opening up more as well. She doesn't want to get hurt. I listen and show her reassurances through my actions. I am going to seek some more clarification this weekend when we are together for a couple of days.

Knowing her the way I do, I came to the following conclusion...she is not looking outside of our relationship for someone else...and I have told her on a couple of occassions in the past to be honest with me. She knows that I would step back COMPLETELY...I'm not into sharing her with anyone. Secondly, she is true to her program...she freely shares with me about her thinking and emotions, and what she has been learning...and as long as we're in this relationship I think it is my business to know about her program...it sets the foundation for an honest relationship built with respect and trust. Because...you can say I love you all you want...but if there is know honesty, trust and respect...there is no"love". We encourage each other to be the individuals that we want to be. I am grateful that she faithfully follows her program. I find it refreshing...She even told me that "I'm finding out that I can be who want to be in a relationship without sacrificing myself",I believe we are establishing that foundation. To this point...I have found her to be honest. Thirdly, last Sunday, after she threw the "dating others " comment out there...she followed that up by saying..."before making a commitment...just to be sure". I did tell her...perhaps you're right...but I'm not looking either. I'd rather her tell me what's on her mind as opposed to keeping that thought to herself....She felt safe and confident enough to share that with me...and I told her that I appreciated that. I also told her that I would be honest with her if I wanted to date someone else...but this is not the case...have no desire. Lastly, I think she was trying to see my level of commitment...because we are growing closer...which can be a little scary.

When I see her tomorrow, I'm going to tell her that I believe in her as well as us...and I understand the need to move slowly...but to be honest...no secrets and when she or I get nervous or need clarity...let's continue to talk openly.

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

I am glad for you that you are happy.
I remember when I first met my now husband. His honestly, open ness, the trust I felf and heard. NO lies, NO deciet, No abuse, it was so refreshing.
I felt I could open up to him, and we did. We talked about everything and deep feelings. We shared, he was honest even if it was something I didn't want to hear.
I was craving that honesty in a relatinship as trust is such a major issue, as is open ness and honesty.

I look back now, and only recently made the inner discovery, I fell so much in love with his honestly.... I missed the content of what he was being honest about.

I would suggest to you that yes the honesty and openness is fantastic. You are enjoying that and you like it and it may even be the foundation of love. Just also remember to listen to the content of what she is saying.

I got so wound up in finally finding someone that didn't lie to me, I didn't care what he said as long as it was the truth. I look back now and wish I had apprecaited the honesty, but also, wish I had enough self confidence to hear the message in the honesty and determine what that meant for me too.

I could have taken it as a lesson to myslef that I value honesty, but not above all else, I also have to like the content of the honesty. He always said good things and we shared intimate details about our thoughts and everything, nothing nasty. If I had listened, and with hindsight, I could have avoided my current situatin of his total relapse. He told me he had a problem with cannabis and we talked about it. He was open and honest to me about it and how it controlled him. He also ceased using it and was honest about every lapse. so why now am I shocked to find I amliving with a totally relapsed cannabis addict. I loved his honestly, but missed the content.

Take what you like and leave the rest

linbaba · Veteran Member

Devon wrote:
Thanks for the reply. She usually is pretty clear and we do communicate pretty well. She has told me on occassion that she doesn't know what the future brings...and I have responded by saying..that's why it's called the future. I believe that she wants to be committed but wants to be certain...and after asking for clarification...she did tell me that she is not looking or searching and would tell me if there is someone she would like to go out with if that ever occurred. ...and I am comfortable that she is telling me the truth. We've only been dating 9 months...that's really not a long time...by any standard. We continue to plan things to do together. Yes...honesty is the prescription.
I asked her if she ever gets nervous about making the leap forward in our relationship. She says she does...because she allowed herself to be controlled for 23 years. She is slow in moving towards a commitment. She has even told me...I move slowly because I've been down the other path when things moved too fast, and it has been a dissaster. I can appreciate that...because that hasn't worked for me either. I do like the analogy made between women and cats. It's ok to be cautious. She and I have definately been closer and are also opening up more as well. She doesn't want to get hurt. I listen and show her reassurances through my actions. I am going to seek some more clarification this weekend when we are together for a couple of days.
Knowing her the way I do, I came to the following conclusion...she is not looking outside of our relationship for someone else...and I have told her on a couple of occassions in the past to be honest with me. She knows that I would step back COMPLETELY...I'm not into sharing her with anyone. Secondly, she is true to her program...she freely shares with me about her thinking and emotions, and what she has been learning...and as long as we're in this relationship I think it is my business to know about her program...it sets the foundation for an honest relationship built with respect and trust. Because...you can say I love you all you want...but if there is know honesty, trust and respect...there is no"love". We encourage each other to be the individuals that we want to be. I am grateful that she faithfully follows her program. I find it refreshing...She even told me that "I'm finding out that I can be who want to be in a relationship without sacrificing myself",I believe we are establishing that foundation. To this point...I have found her to be honest. Thirdly, last Sunday, after she threw the "dating others " comment out there...she followed that up by saying..."before making a commitment...just to be sure". I did tell her...perhaps you're right...but I'm not looking either. I'd rather her tell me what's on her mind as opposed to keeping that thought to herself....She felt safe and confident enough to share that with me...and I told her that I appreciated that. I also told her that I would be honest with her if I wanted to date someone else...but this is not the case...have no desire. Lastly, I think she was trying to see my level of commitment...because we are growing closer...which can be a little scary.
When I see her tomorrow, I'm going to tell her that I believe in her as well as us...and I understand the need to move slowly...but to be honest...no secrets and when she or I get nervous or need clarity...let's continue to talk openly.

Truthfully that sounds fantastic, it's OK to move slowly (it's healthy) it's OK to be yourself in a relationship, frankly ....how do I say, this sounds like one of the healthier relationships I have -ever- seen posted on this board, with it's open communication, no u-haul pulling up on the second date, no ultimatums but communications, and boundaries

from my experience, like I said in 20 years I have dated 4? women really, 2 with zero program, although one began attending AA meetings after we met, she still drank and lied about it, and everything else quite frankly, and a woman who I was with who began attending CODA after I got sober, those were terrible like I said, just passive aggressive punishing abusive relationships with abusive narcissists who's mantra was "don't communicate-manipulate"

and a woman who did EBT I think it was called, cognitive therapy (just to show there's more then one path up the hill, not just 12 steps) and one who had LONG TERM sobriety, she has 24 years now, 15 years when we started dating I think, and both of those were -WONDERFUL- relationships, that both ended because of geographic distance frankly, in one case I moved for work, in the other we lived 3k miles apart, but they sounded like your relationship, so...refreshing, just....loving, I could say anything, I could be myself, I didn't have to tie myself into knots trying to make this other person happy, I began dating someone recently, same thing, it's unfolding slowly, but the biggest thing I notice is the stark contrast, it's like living in an upside down Bizarro world, wait, this person communicates freely???? is honest???? is NICE?????? likes me for who I am and isn't trying to reshape me in her own twisted and distorted image?????

Once again the biggest thing is the contrast, it's like living in the George Constanza world of everything is opposite, there is an emotional reciprocity, open-ness, honesty and communication that is staggering

AND SHE'S NICE TO ME haha

She's in AA and works a strong program, and the truth of the matter is I wouldn't date, I CAN'T date someone who hasn't worked the 12 steps or it's equivelent such as this cognitive therapy program, I lack the emotional depth and the skills to tolerate emotional with-holding of love, passive aggressive punishments, being constantly lied to...well that and life is just toooo short for that ****

Linda and I both make the same point, pay attention to the content, that is critical

People tell us who they are, but we ignore it, because we want them to be who we want them to be.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Devon...the short and simple of it for me is that people have doubts and some of those doubts concern me at times. It is easier to respect people having doubts than it is defending how they may or may not affect me. When I don't listen and learn and act as if it won't pertain or affect me the outcome usually has been negative...large or small and when I don't pay attention and decide to use denial of what is right in front of me I will certainly pay a price later on. The world will not revolve around my wants and wishes. It never has. I've learned in recovery that when I don't understand and have questions about what is going on to ask for "clarification"..."what do you really mean about that...honestly". I always ask for honesty. After I get the response I respect it and use it to build the picture..."where am I at and if I pay attention what will the consequences be for me?" Often times now the consequences for me don't include people, places and things. The consequences are about spiritual balance inspite of people, places and things. One little speck of balance for me was learning the love dynamic of relationships. One is to love the same across the board...I love my wife like I love others. The other part was learning the "not needing" part of relationships... "I love you and like having you here and I don't need you." This partly allows the other person the complete and total time, ability and facility to be who ever they desire, where ever they desire to be that and all the time in the world to be it in spite of me.

Another thing I learned from an early sponsor was a slogan, "When in doubt...DON'T". I have to entertain doubts when another person indicates to me that they have their own perceptions and questions about what is right for them. Today if I was in your situation getting those perceptions from a person I didn't want to entertain within myself, I would have doubts and then would come the Don't' and the Stop!! I am powerless and am not God so HP is who I should hadle the situation over to. It's worked for me, only one of the responders to your post.

I see "Dating" and "Changing" as two different issues. ((((hugs)))) smile

Devon · Newbie

Since Labor Day Weekend my girlfriend (in recovery w/ AA for 5 1/2 years) have been doing pretty well. We've been communicating on a higher level, meaning I seek clarification when I need it. Sometimes she'll use phrases, such as "I'm not sure how I'll feel then..." (referring to a perspective date that I'd like to plan with her), or "I can't predict the future", or just make non-commitment type statements, which can drive me crazy...but when I ask for clarification...she is free to give it. She came from a horrendous 23 year addiction filled, abusive marriage...not to mention another abusive filled relationship about 3 1/2 years ago that ended after 4 months. It was a fast and furious relationship. Yes, when I ask for clarification I am seeking "honesty" from her. We both admitted to each other that we have no desire to go out with any one else. She told me that after her last experience of 3 1/2 years ago, it is hard for her to open up her heart again. I also come from an emotionally abusive marriage where my ex-wife and her (formally diagnosed) borderline personality disorder reared its ugly head too many times...resulting in my son and I having to leave. Nevertheless... my girl friend has been empathetic with me.

Last weekend she and her daughter spent their first weekend with my son and I after dating for nine months. I never pushed for it, but this came naturally...and the weekend was marvelous. She admitted that she was growing closer to me but I could still feel her cautious approach at times. We talked very openly and admitted that there wasn't any rush...I feel more confident about things with her and encouraged her to continue to communicate with me. We are both spiritually rooted and often share ...and pray together occasionally.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

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