The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
What's the point of Al-Anon? I don't get it at all. The whole program seems like a cult trying to sell books. I don't understand why people in Al-Anon don't give "advice" to others. How helpful is that?
Al-Anon is not about helping the alcoholic to stop drinking. It seems to me that it is a way to justify staying in an unhealthy relationship with an alcoholic. How many people who stay with the alcoholic are actually happy, whether they have Al-Anon in their lives or not? I bet there aren't very many. From everything I have seen Al-Anon is a way to take any and all responsibility away from the alcoholic. It is a way to say it's not their fault, they have a "disease". Guess what, it is their fault for not seeking treatment for said disease. I refuse to absolve the alcoholic of that responsibility. If it isn't their fault then who's fault is it? It's not mine, I'm not the one who turns into a monster after a few drinks and has no self-control or judgment.
I hate the face to face meetings. Sitting there reading the steps and traditions at every meeting is repetitive and boring. Again it feels like a cult. All of the literature touts how wonderful Al-Anon is and if you "work the program" (by far the most annoying phrase I have ever heard) it will help you so much. Well it doesn't help me. I think it is stupid and pointless and I'm done driving a half hour away to go to meetings that I should not have to go to. I am not the one with the problem and I feel like Al-Anon is trying to say that I need to change me. I'm a good person. I don't need to change anything about myself other than to get rid of the drunk in my life and quit wasting my Friday and Sunday nights at Al-Anon meetings.
If you truly believe all of the things that you say above, what are you doing at this forum? It doesn't sound like you need this program. I totally respect your position and wish you well in life but if what you post is how you feel, you don't need to be posting it here. The old addage applies, in my opinion - if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Everyone has their own path to walk in this life. Not everyone's paths cross at some point or another.
__________________
--Mare
Grateful member of Al Anon
"Live in and for the day, each and every day, starting right now."
Janet Geringer Woititz, Ed.D., "Marriage on the Rocks: Learning to Live with Yourself and
an Alcoholic."
I went to my first f2f meeting Sunday night and I have been reading posts on here since then. I am feeling so much better just since doing these things.
Hi there Jbunny - just copied the above from your first post on MIP, and wondering what may have changed for you? Al-Anon, as a program, does not (nor should it ever) persuade people to do things such as stay or to leave.... What it teaches is the basic skillset so that we feel comfortable standing up for ourselves, and treating ourselves with respect. In this vein, some stay, and some go - but it is not the 'program' that fails, nor encourages them which path to follow. Al-Anon teachings also do not absolve anyone of their responsibility for their actions.
Your anger and frustration is obvious, and Al-Anon can help. There is a great old saying: "try us for six meetings, and if you aren't completely satisfied, we will gladly refund your misery".
In all honesty, your post sounds like you are miserable and angry right now, and many of us here have been there, to be sure. There are options out there for you, should you choose them.
Hope you find a path that works for you
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
You have received great responses and I too would like to share my path to find the recovery in the rooms.
I hear your anger and understand exactly what you are saying. I have said the same words many years ago and did walk away from alanon (Because there was nothing wrong with me).
I finally returned when the pain of living life on my terms became so intense I had no other choice.. I had no where else to go, Nothing worked for me my way, my solutions to life, my attitude, my tools of focusing on others, blaming them, forcing my will , denying reality and pretending I was fine and perfect did not work any longer.
It was then I returned to alanon and began to listen with an open mind Alanon did not give me advise because we firmly believe that the answers for each persons life is within them and by helping each person obtains the courage and peace to go within to find themselves and the answers are what will promote growth and true peace.
Steps and Traditions are the foundation of the program The Steps help us to discard the baggage we carry from the past and the traditions help us learn how to interact in groups.-without loosing ourselves.
The tools are there, the help is there but the program will only make sense when you are ready.
I was told to attend the meetings and if I did not like them I could leave and my misery will be gladly refunded. It was!!!!. Leaving the alcoholic is not the solution Finding new tools to live by works
Aloha JBunny...soooo it was you who found my journal...the early one that I was writing before I exercised the courage to go to 90 meetings in 90 days and to stop looking for the differences between "them" and me but the similarities. Alcoholism is cunning, powerful and baffling and that is great justification for what you are feeling and where you are at right now. The program can stand judgement; it is over 60 years old and is in over 130 countries and has over 25000 registered meetings worldwide. That it does really well and works for those who have been affected by someone else's drinking and is referred to most often by professionals and clergy under those circumstances is well known. It is also well known that it is a very different way of living ones life who hasn't been successful living their life and who is holding an alcoholic responsible for that. Actually I am responsible for my choices and the consequences of those choices one being that knowingly or unknowingly I have choosen women addicted to chemicals; alcohol and others, as my life partners. They didn't force me...I did it expecting better than reasonable outcomes and it didn't work because it shouldn't and couldn't and wouldn't.
Not anyone person speaks for the program. We only speak for ourselves and our experiences. We don't give "advice" only share experiences. I have your experiences and I will share mine with you if you wish. I hope you keep coming back and to just sit and listen open mindedly (without resistance and rejection) that maybe you might see your picture in a different way and find change.
Welcome to MIP which isn't Al-Anon though there are tons in the fellowship here for the purpose of helping and supporting others who are willing. ((((hugs))))
Yes you are a good person.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 29th of August 2011 04:16:56 PM
Al-Anon is not about helping the alcoholic to stop drinking. It seems to me that it is a way to justify staying in an unhealthy relationship with an alcoholic. How many people who stay with the alcoholic are actually happy, whether they have Al-Anon in their lives or not? I bet there aren't very many. From everything I have seen Al-Anon is a way to take any and all responsibility away from the alcoholic. It is a way to say it's not their fault, they have a "disease". Guess what, it is their fault for not seeking treatment for said disease. I refuse to absolve the alcoholic of that responsibility. If it isn't their fault then who's fault is it? It's not mine, I'm not the one who turns into a monster after a few drinks and has no self-control or judgment.
I think it is stupid and pointless and I'm done driving a half hour away to go to meetings that I should not have to go to. I am not the one with the problem and I feel like Al-Anon is trying to say that I need to change me. I'm a good person. I don't need to change anything about myself other than to get rid of the drunk in my life and quit wasting my Friday and Sunday nights at Al-Anon meetings.
When I went into Al-anon these words could have come out of my mouth. That was two years ago. I had no idea until after about year one how much I contributed to the disease of my A. The line I bolded that you wrote was my motto.
This belief system I had led me and my son down a path that might have taken his life had I not caught him in the act several times. I was so angry with my A for putting him in this situation. It took a full year for me to see that my anger and blame did not create the situation, but contributed. Whether I was with my A or not I became a better person with healthier perceptions because of this program that has saved me in so many ways.
The Al-anon program does not say whether we should stay with the A in our lives or go. It does not advocate accepting abusive or manipulative behavior. It does show me how to deal with those behaviors which has aided me with my A as well as many other people in my life that have many of the same traits.
I now know that I do not need to lay blame or make sure someone else in my life takes on their responsibility. That is a losing battle as I have not a lick of control over that and trying to control what I cannot just brings me frustration.
Al-anon did aid me in canging me. Much like the A in my life that didn't think he needed those meetings, neither did I and we were both living in denial each pointing the finger at the other.
If I had nothing to change about myself, I would be perfect and since I am far from that I will continue to accept the esh of others who are in my situation. I am not unique in the rooms of Al-anon. I can learn from others and when I think I can't, I close off the opportunity for higher learning.
I live some days frustrated, but those days are usually when I have not kept my program in mind, much like the last week. :)
Thanks for the reminder of how I don't want to go back to thinking again, and it is easy to slip back into that mode.....just as easy for me as for the AA to slip with thier thinking.
Hello Jbunny - what I've gotten from Al-anon is the knowledge that I wasn't the only one in the world going through what I was going through. It amazed me how similar so many stories were and I found a lot of comfort in knowing that MY alcoholics' manipulations were just about EVERY alcoholics' manipulations. I was angry that my A wouldn't just STOP drinking, especially after we'd identified it as a problem, I could stop drinking, why couldn't he? I now understand that for him, it isn't as simple as "just don't drink". And, even though my case ended in divorce, I continue my education here because I don't want to end up in the same type of relationship again (ha, if I ever decide to delve into one again at all that is!) - there are a lot of single alcoholic men out there and they are looking for another woman to dupe into taking care of them - I don't want that to be me, so I need to develop the tools to recognize the symptoms and protect myself from them - I certainly have to protect my heart.
I'm wondering if, since you find the meetings you go to boring and repetitive (I don't tolerate boring and repetitive myself so I can relate), you would be able to find a different group, maybe there is one that better fits with your personality and nature?
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I'm an atheist, with Buffy the Vampire Slayer as my higher power. I go to meetings because being around other people who are trying to change their lives for the better helps support my decisions to change my life for the better. The shared ESH (experience, strength, and hope) is what keeps me coming back, even if we do keep reading the same 12 steps over and over -- the steps may be the same each time, but the discussions of them aren't, and I usually come away with some new ideas.
When I first came to Al-Anon, I was very uncomfortable with some of the religion-y sounding higher power stuff. Sure smelled like a cult to me. And when I expressed my concerns and they just said "keep coming back", I took it as an insulting, patronizing "don't worry, you'll find Jesus eventually". But it wasn't. When I stopped resisting and started listening, I found out that "take what you like, and leave the rest" is taken very seriously in Al-Anon -- and when I declared a fictional character from a TV show to be my higher power (because she inspires me), everybody accepted that. When they get to the parts about prayer and stuff, I apply the "and leave the rest" part -- and Al-Anon has still worked out very well for me! To me, the real power of Al-Anon is in sharing with others, and learning from their experiences.
And Al-Anon does *not* say you have to stay in a relationship with your alcoholic. It gives you some tools that can help save some relationships, *if that's what you want to do* -- but some relationships are beyond saving, or sometimes you're just better off without the alcoholic. Al-Anon encourages you to take some time before making any big life-changing decisions, but ultimately, you make the decision that's best for you, and sometimes that *is* leaving the alcoholic.Two of the women in my homegroup, both of whom have been coming to Al-Anon for months, are in the middle of divorces right now, because they decided staying with their alcoholics wasn't worth it. They still come to Al-Anon for support, and will still be very welcome here for as long as they want to keep coming, even once they're no longer living with alcoholics. Others make the opposite decision -- my sponsor is still with her husband, but their relationship has greatly improved since she started using the Al-Anon tools.
What's right for you isn't the same as what's right for someone else, and that's part of why Al-Anon doesn't do advice -- instead, you get the tools to help you figure out what's right for you.
Al-Anon is about you, not the alcoholic. Yes, the alcoholic has a problem. But if you're letting the alcoholic's problem impact your life, then you have a problem too. Al-Anon can help you with that.
-- Edited by atheos on Monday 29th of August 2011 06:28:21 PM
More people than not have left their sig other, it's not about staying it's about having the right tools to deal with life in general. I did believe at one point that people went to alanon to stay with their sig other. I also can see now I wasn't ready for what alanon had to offer and I wasn't ready to start my healing. I needed to feel a lot more pain before I was really ready. Ironically now that I"m back in the program my attitude has totally changed and yes my relationship with my A changed what's wrong with that? At least now I am stronger, more confident and I'm not living in so much constant pain.
The program is all about accepting responsibility without blaming others for our choices.
Take what you like. :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Why do I like and live the Al-Anon program? Time and space don't allow me to tell you all of them. A few that do come to mind. The program did save my life, sanity, peace of mind, and serenity. All of those are important to me. I say that in the spirit it is intended.
When I arrived at the doors of Al-Anon, like you I was angry and I also knew I didn't have the problem. Like you I had a choice, to continue doing what I had been doing, or to change, try something different from what I had been doing. The "Gordian Knot" is defined as one last try, one more attempt.
I will forever be grateful I gave it one last try, one more attempt. My experience, strength, and hope, to you and what I have found to hold true in my years in the program.......I have never know a single person, who tried the program, accepted the program at face value, and worked the program to the best of their ability, whose life has not changed for the better, not one. I have seen members who left their alcoholic and their life was changed for the better. I have seen many more who stayed and were able to be happy whether the alcoholic in their life was drinking or not. I have seen members who changed and their alcoholic seeing those changes decided to change and seek soberity themselves. But I have never seen a failure when someone followed the Al-Anon program.....again not one.
My life is not perfect.........but when I think about it, if I were not married to an active alcoholic, my life would still not be perfect.
not sure if you will read these responses Jbunny, because you may have left us, however I have really enjoyed reading the responses and got soemthing out of all of them.
I am glad I am not the only one that start out feeling that way..... basically I said to myself.... I have tried evrythign else, lets give this a go.. the jury is still out but for now, I am learning some new ways of thinking for ME
BTW, counsellors don't give you adivce either.... they give you a way to think about things so you can work out your own advice.
Al Anon is not for everybody, nor is living with an alcoholic, nor is being angry... we are all individuals and thankfully, we don't all think the same or we would ALL be alcoholics!!!!!
You are entitled to your opinion and you may do as you wish... good luck out there, its a big bad world on your own
Hi Bunny thanks for your post. It made me laugh reading it because I could relate. I got here really really angry , hurt and a host of other emotions. But truth is I was so friggin miserable I was willing to keep an open mind because I didnt want to feel the way I was feeling inside for the rest of my life. And I knew deep inside there had to be something wrong with me to be in the relationship I was in, that was really the icing on the cake that got me here. I remember saying to myself...wow you must be really off the deep end to be so attached to someone so clearly not good for you...It wasnt like I didnt have a choice, like it was my child or I was dealing with a parent who had an addiction, it was my choice to be with her person I was with. I just knew in my heart of hearts 2 and 2 was not making 4 with that decison. I am going to agree with you on how can a relationship with an active alcholic be good, it cant in my opinion but if your in one you had better find a "better way" of coping and dealing with it. As far as giving advice...ya, I would have loved to see someone tell me that I should run for my life and get the hell out now....like I would have listened...ha!! If your looking for advice I will step out and advise you this...get honest with yourself, try to be willing to have an open mind and entertain thoughts you may never have, see if the shoe fits. I dont know who it is your dealing with but I can guarantee you this, you have been effected...better yet you have been infected. Alanon is a way out :) blessings to you xo
Sometimes we have to change our perspective on things Jennifer. No one "wants" to be here. No one "likes" the idea that they need spiritual help. You don't have to be here.
Changing my perspective is changing my life. If I want to stay miserable, I will stay in the rut I was in. If I want to feel better and stop the insanity, I will do things to change me. Wherever I go, there I am. I can leave the relationship, and propbably find yet another man who is "sick". Or I can work on me, while in this relationship and then make an educated decision to leave or stay, just for today. Have a nice day :)
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-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I must say, I just love this post, and I absolutely love all the replies. I have always appreciated straight talkers. I do so hope you will continue to have the courage to post and share of yourself on these boards.
I am one of those that have chosen to stay with the alcoholic, one day at a time. I have found happiness, joy, peace and serenity that surpasses all understanding in these relationships. I have alcoholics all around my family, the disease is pervasive and affects everyone. Alcoholics are not bad people. Working the steps for me in Alanon has shown me how to separate my loved ones from their disease. They cannot stop drinking any more than one could stop the waves from the ocean crashing into the shore.
So, Alanon may not be right for you. That's cool. It wasn't right for me the first time I went either. For me it took a tremendous amount of pain to walk back into the rooms of Alanon again to finally come to a point for which I was ready and willing to do something different. The saying goes, my best thinking got me there. When I do what I have always done, I will get what I have always got. The loving people in Alanon taught me there was another way. That way has worked for me one day at a time for many years now.
Thank you so very much for your post today. I appreciate and enjoyed your candor. I would like to invite you to stick around. I like you having you here just the way you are. No judgement or criticism. Keep coming back. This is a good place to lighten your load.
Thank you for posting! I really can relate to some of your thoughts and feelings. I can also relate to many of the replies. You've drawn out so much ESH from everyone!
You're right, living with an Alcoholic is just plain hell sometimes. They are responsible for themselves, and how they deal with their disease. You have a right to make decisions based on what is in your best interest always, and especially when it comes to living with the effects of alcoholism in your life!
I particularly liked DreamXL's response! I have felt that way many times. The point is not to keep you in an atmosphere of abuse. The point is exactly NOT that the alcoholic is justified or that their behavior is acceptable. They aren't, and it isn't, period. The point is to get ourselves healthy, to be able to make the best decisions for our own lives. Take the alcoholic out of the equation - he/she may not even deserve to be part of it- and look at you. You can learn how to heal, make different decisions, and to live your life in a way that reflects the healing you have done. That reflection may or may not include the person you are in a relationship with - in that case, you will be better positioned to NOT find another relationship with another addict. The alcoholic has the right to make the same choices - to get help and get well, or stay sick. Telling ourselves that the alcoholic is sick (in response to their behavior) doesn't excuse it - and if people you speak with are trying to excuse the behavior then they aren't working the program. Telling ourselves that the A is sick is merely stating a fact - and allowing you the freedom to make choices in response.
Very sincerely, I hope you come back! Please continue to speak your mind.
Wishing you peace,
KLotus
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"The first step toward success is taken when you refuse to be a captive of the environment in which you first find yourself."
JBUNNY: There are times when I feel like I don't need a meeting but I do need the program. It has been there for me through all my relationships w/ alcoholic men--sober or not! I have been in the program for over 25 years & it seems to work.
Keep an open mind; you will find what you need out of the program when you are ready. No one is telling you you have to go. I know for me, it was suggested that I go but I went for me not the alcoholic. I found that when I stopped going to Alanon, I ended up in another relationship w/ a practicing alcoholic.
I am a much healthier person than when I went to my 1st meeting. I can vouch for a lot of other people who have gotten healthier whether their alcoholic got sober or not.
Hang in there! Maybe you will find what you are looking for; maybe you won't but never give up on you!
I love it, this board is so extremely cool. Thanks to the moderators and all of the contributors for having a forum for which all perspectives can come to the surface.
Hi Jbunny. I'm sorry you feel that way. I can just say when I came to Alanon I felt the same way! I figured YES! it was my AH's fault, he caused this marraige to fall apart, He is responsible for everything! I have only been here about 2 months, and what I have learned is There IS something I can do about it. In the short time I have been here and going to f2f meetings, I have learned what I can do to keep happy. Does my AH still drink? yes, does it bother me, not as much as it used to! because I now know I cannot control it and I know I can turn to ME and do what makes me happy whether he is drinking or not. I never interpreted it as taking the responsiblity off of him, contrary to that I took it as NOW he is REALLY responsible for him and I am NO LONGER going to be responsible for anyone but me and my children. For me f2f meetings give me the chance to realize, Hey, I'm NOT crazy, there are other people out there who feel or have felt exactly how I feel right now. it gives me a sense of belonging and sanity, a place where I can share and not be criticized and not listen to anyone's advice (because hey, who's to say I'm going to like their advice anyway!)
Yep I did not care for the message of .. my life is in the crapper .. blame the disease not my exAH ... I had choices to make when I did not know up from down anymore ... and I could not stop running. Then I looked around and noticed some people who did not cry after the meeting because they had to go home now even though their shares and stories were very similar to mine. I wanted that. Welcome to MIP (((jbunny)))
