The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
As I have mentioned in previous posts, my A is not an alcoholic, he is a pot smoker.
He relapsed completely 3 days before our wedding. As of the last 4 months, he has reduced his smoking and I have asked that he not smoke if he and I are spending time together. This has often fallen on deaf ears.
As of the last month or so, I have decided that if he won't contain his use, then I will contain my own exposure to it, and I have removed myself from him emotionally if not physically when he smokes.
During July, he again spun out of control being stoned 13 out of the 31 days (yes I count) that I know of...
Over this weekend, we planned to spend the weekend together regrouping as a couple after having a very busy month prior and his family visiting (who are all BIG pot smokers). The weekend was going wonderful. I could see in his eye on Saturday he wanted a smoke, but he didn't. I didn't say anything positive or negative. It was a lovely day and a lovely night together.
Sunday we woke up and decided to relax for the day. I knew what that may have meant and waited for him to say the words "I might just have a smoke". They happened at about 9am. I said I would prefer if he didn't and we have a nice day together. He didn't argue but he said, "so what we are only watching TV". I said it makes me feel bad when you do, I would like to just spend time with you. He didn't smoke but I could see he wasn't overly happy about it.
We went out and had a nice lunch together, we were both feeling a bit tired and a bit under the weather as we had had a very late night (no, not drunk, just a long night reconnecting). We got home from the shops and I asked if he wanted to go for a dip in the spa and he said, I am just going to have a smoke. I walked away and said, well then, I will catch up with you later.
I went into the lounge room and read my book. He came in a few minutes later and asked if we were going for the dip in the spa and I said "No, I am reading my book". He said is that because I had a smoke and I said Yes.
The rest of the day was totally ruined. We didn't talk. He sat and watched TV and I fell asleep on the lounge. At about 7pm we started talking and it all came out.
I told him he deliberately did something today that he knew hurt my feelings and he didn't care. I told him how much he had smoked and it was too much lately. I told him I didn't want to be around him when he smoked. I told him he totally disrespected my feelings.
He told me he didn't see there was a problem and it was my reaction that ruined the day, not him having a smoke which is totally unimportant. He actually yelled at me which is an uncommon thing.
I ended up telling him that I still love him even though we do not agree and it will continue to be a problem for us.
I feel like running away, I feel like getting under the doona and never coming out. I feel like yet again the sky is falling in. I am angry, I am sad, I am feeling sick in my stomach.
Did I do it wrong. Should I have just kept on going with my day as it was and went for a spa with him even though he had a smoke? Is that not just telling him that the bahaviour is acceptable?
He is not a bad man when he is stoned. He does not yell or do mean things. I just hate the way it makes him look and sound and he disconnect from the world.
What the ____ am I supposed to do??????? What part of this program lets me know the right way.
These are your boundaries. There is no bottom line for what is acceptable and not acceptable. There is only acceptable for you versus not. His boundary and expectations may be completely different. Right now, his marijuana smoking has very little consequences for him. That addiction is pretty hard to break because people don't hit bottom quite as hard as a total alcoholic does.
Nonetheless, my concern is that he does not talk you into thinking you are the one with the problem. You aren't. I would not want to marry an every other day pot smoker either. I would not want that to be the father of my children and I wouldn't want to always feel at risk of being busted for drugs all the time. I have a big problem with that. BUT - that is MY boundary.
You can try and talk to him about your feelings about his smoking but if he doesn't want to stop, you can't make him. Then you are left with your own choices. The program is there so you don't get so wrapped up in his addiction that you lose focus on your own life goals, what makes you happy, and so you don't base all your life satisfaction on him and his drug use.
The thing is, I have learned that talking to people about their addctions or what they are doing that I don't like, doesn't work. So I don't do it anymore. And when I stopped talking about it, especially with my A, things started to get better. The book Getting Them Sober has helped me so much with this. You can change the word from alcohol to pot and its the same thing. When HE wants to get sober, he will do it. There is nothing we can do to make them stop. I tried just the other night when I for some reason thought I was powerful over alcohol again. It didn't work. There is a line that I read from Canadian Guy about this from the book Getting Them Sober. When we grab onto our program of recovery, and we really WANT this program like nothing else in the world, the A will see it, their radar will pick up on it. And they will know that we are changing. And sometimes that prompts them to change too. There are some of us here who do live with an active A. And we do it with the support of alanon. It says in the beginning of the meetings that living with an active A (or active pot smoker) can be too much for most of us, WITHOUT the help of alanon. With the program of spirituality, we learn to live and let live. We learn the three C's that we can't cure it, didn't cause it and can't control it. You don't have to leave your A, you don't have to have a conversation with him about this, we don't have to force them, give them the silent treatment or yell at them, because it doesn't work to make them want to get better. When we get off their backs and get into our own programs and do things for ourselves, things get better. I have to say that I think you are on the first step, that you are powerless over marijuana. You are powerless over him smoking it. It has power over him right now and until he wants to stop, he won't. The AA big book helped me see that this really is a disease and that it is a compulsion that happens to them. The book One day at a time helped me when I read July 5, July 14 and July 25. Also Courage to Change has helped. Keep coming, keep trying. Don't give up! You are worth it! Take care of you :)
__________________
-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I like what pinkchip wrote you already. Just wanted to add that when an individual is a pot smoker, often, it inhibits their emotional growth. I have a few family members who smoke pot on a regular basis. In fact, two of these family members suggested to my ex-AH that he should smoke pot and drink beer since he is an alcoholic (sigh). All these family members are in their 50s and 60s. They do not know how to deal with life challenges - they go smoke their pot to chill out.
I hope you are able to get to meetings. Your answers might not come all at once, but you will get your answers if you work the program or at least attend meetings and listen.
Keep coming back!
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Thanks I can't get to meetings at this point. Iguess what I am asking is.. do you think I over reacted? Is that what detachment is, or does it more mean that if he wanted to spend time with me, and he is stoned, but his behaviour is acceptable, then thats ok too??? Im just confused. I would love to be able to spend time with him, stoned or otherwise, and enjoy each others company. But then my mind says, no, that is being a doormat.
I am the adult child (40) of an alcoholic and I have lived in faaaaaar worse situations than this as you can all well imagine.
I know I have the adult child traits in abundance wiht the need to control and so on. Am I more angry at him for smoking or for not 'following what I say is right in the world'
How important is it, is one saying I have remembered and tried to employ inmy life since going to Al Anon at a very young age with my Mum.
I think I reacted with anger in my tone of voice, my total removal physically and emotionally from him. I immediately got angry and 'p'd off' that he wanted to smoke on such a nice day.
Do you guys still engage with the A when he is drinking if it is safe to do so? Do you still smile and talk and interact with him/her. Is that what you mean by "i stopped talking about it"? Did you just accept it and be happy when he is in the house drinking??
I am having difficulties with knowing where my boundaries are I guess. I do not want to leave him. I just want to be happy, like we were before we were married.
Can you pleae expand on what you mean. You stopped talking about it. But what did you do instead? What did you do when you saw him wth a beer in his hand (or whatever drink). Did you go away? Did you say, I would prefer you didn't do that? Did you just go on the day as per usual and if you had a nice day planned with him, and he chose to be involved, did you continue the daywith him having had a few drinks regardless?
I fully agree that I am on the first step. I am completely unmanageable in my life at the moment, it consumes my every waking thought.. not his... mine.
I want this sanity for myself. I do understand that I can't change him or what he does.
I understand what I am NOT able to do... but what do I actually DO
It's really not about what we think or don't think about your situation the thing about alanon is you have to discover your own answers by your own healing.
What we can do is support you as you journey through your healing.
Trying to rationalize with an addict is like nailing jello to a tree. It just is not going to happen no matter how hard you try that jello is going to slide right off the nail. The best thing you can do for you is focus on your own healing. Read some alanon lit. Some of the books that aren't alanon lit however are really great books are Getting Them Sober, Toby Rice Drew and any of the M. Beattie books, Co Dependents No More really hit home for me in dealing with my own issues. Believe me we all have them if we didn't we wouldn't have married addicts.
You will never make him get sober, not get high or whatever. He has to do that himself. You can work on yourself and find the answers for you.
It's a wonderful journey too. I know without alanon I would not be where I am today and for that I am so incredibly grateful to this program and the wonderful, wise people around. I still have far to go, without the books, without the f2f meetings i would not make it otherwise.
Hugs and I hope you can find a meeting you can attend. I fully understand scheduling conflicts and other reasons that meetings done workout.
P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I guess witout those books to hand at the moment, and no one else to really talk to, I am after some sort of tactics/thoughts/ideas that other people have used to remain calm in the face of this.
I understand you can't tell me what is right and wrong as we all have different understandings and situations.
I do keep getting dragged back into ratinalising and I do know better, but at the time the emotions kick in and I just revert back to trying to negotiate 'our' time and 'his' time. I know he will NEVER stop smoking completely, but I thought I could compromise the situation. Apparently not.
How do I set my boundaries without it seeming like a punishment, which will only give him justification (in his own mind).
Perhaps I should just give in and continue on as if it is not important at all, as if it is a 'nothing' event and just go out with him whether he is stoned or otherwise.
Linda, this thought occurred to me as I read through this post - substitute something else "really" offensive to a relationship - say, an affair with prostitutes - Imagine your A saying, what's the big deal, you are making a problem where there isn't one, its just a little sex and I need it because __________________; and fill in the blank with all the justifications he gives you for why its ok in this case to make exceptions to things to accomodate his needs. Would his justifications in any way shape or form make you give in and see his point? No. Of course not.
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
no you didnt do anything wrong but it looks like he is feeling guilty about what he did and showed that through anger. I feel that he feels torn between you and the marijuana and the guilt for betraying you because he does love you, but addiction is a powerful thing.
I unfortunatly am dealing with the similar thing, the anger and mistrust and I hate feeling this way, I feel on edge.. in fact my partner right now is out , possibly drinking. I feel like acceptance and not trying to control the situation but make a healthy decision for yourself based on the circumstances.
Hi, Linda. My husband had multiple addictions -- not all at the same time, they would slide around from one to another -- and I can guess a little of what you're going through.
There are meetings on this site so that might help if you can't get to a local meeting. The more knowledge and experience you have, the more easily the answers come. Also read all the posts on this site when you have a chance.
What was hard for me in the beginning was accepting that talking to my husband was pointless. The addiction has made them insane and they just won't be convinced. You could put something in their face and they would deny it. "No, I haven't had a drink in a month. I'm just holding one in my hand because someone gave it to me." That kind of ridiculous statement. (I know your husband is a pot smoker but just giving a drinking example.) The disease has messed up their logic and their brains so they really can't think straight. They are in denial even to themselves. It was hard giving up the urge to argue with my husband and try to persuade him, but that's step one -- realizing we are powerless over the addiction. If we could control it, there would be no addicts in the world.
What I learned to do, in my case, was to say, "I don't know if you've been drinking or not, and I'm not asking you to tell me. [I knew he would lie anyway.] But you're acting like you've been drinking, and I can't get along with that, so I'm going to go [do whatever]." At first he would argue with me: "I have not been drinking! You're paranoid! Why do you make a big deal of every little thing!" Later he would just shrug. Of course they don't want to admit anything, so they'll never agree that they've been doing their addiction. But even if he hadn't -- even if he was just acting drunk for some reason -- it was too unpleasant for me to be around. They behave differently when they're on their drug, even if they want to pretend it's not true. But we know the truth. And there's no reason we should put up with it just to maintain their denial.
Everyone has their own boundaries. But if you don't like the way he is when he's been smoking -- and my guess is that few people except other pot-smokers would -- you are absolutely entitled to draw the line. At first he will undoubtedly protest as my husband did, because they want to maintain the fiction that their addiction doesn't make any difference to others. But my experience is that if you stick to your guns, he has no way to force you to do what he wants (thank goodness).
Linda, The meetings are my best suggestion. I am not sure why you can't go, but they do help, because there is so much experience strength and hope there and this program only works when we give back to it. Here is something from Getting Them Sober: "Don't expect him to be sober. He does mean it when he promises he won't {smoke pot} again, (I put smoke pot but it says drink in the book) but probably can't keep that promise--and he doesn't know it. The paradox is: When you truly stop expecting him to be sober, he has a better chance to be sober." "What can you do? First, remember the facts. Alcoholism (smoking pot) is a disease; your spouse is addicted, not from a lack of will-power, religion or love for you; he is ADDICTED to alcohol. Try to remember that drinking (smoking pot) is only one symptom of alcoholism. Another symptom is the alcoholic's desperate attempts to patch up his life by making promises he cannot keep. One of these is his promise to stop drinking (smoking pot)" And more from that page: "Is there hope? Paradoxically, when you truly stop expecting it, and start beliveing in the reality of his illness, start losing your personal anger towards him, get a distance on it all, and plan you life for you, then you whole behavior, your attitude, your voice, your actions towards your spouse--all will change. He will sense that change. He will see, without your ahving to say it, that the problem is his--not yours. it won't be anything you'll have to discuss. Both of you will know it--even though he may deny it. You'll have found your serenity; and he will have a chance to choose recovery." This is all from page 108 in the first Getting Them Sober. I am not really supposed to type all this here, but you wanted to know what you can do.
You can set boundaries for you, if he chooses to smoke you can say what you mean, mean what you say but not say it mean. You can say "while you do that, I am going to go do this" and don't get upset, just go. Your attitude can change attitudes. The changes can begin with you. Let it begin with me, is one of my favorite slogans. We can work on us and go to meetings. We can come on this board and read any post we can. Read old posts on topics you want to know about. Take them to heart. Little changes help. For me a boundary is that I don't take my A to go get alcohol if I am in for the night. He knows it, he tried to get me to take him a few times and then gave up when I stuck to my boundary. I have other boundaries like no sex if drunk. I don't really talk to him much if he is really drunk. We just sit together. If he falls asleep on the couch, I leave him there. I don't wake him up. I don't discuss with him the next morning how he was when drunk. I don't like to dredge it up. I simply say, you were drunk, now you aren't. Lets move on. For me, that works. My sponsor has helped me with this. Going to meetings, reading, and coming on this board is all how I began to get better. You said you aren't going to meetings right now. I know I said that too. I said I didn't need them. Now I know I do need them. Keep coming. I hope this helps. Take care of you! Get on amazon and find those books, they are cheap there! One day at a time in alanon, getting them sober and courage to change are all in my tool bag. And you can read the aa big book on line for free, its a PDF file, you can google it.
__________________
-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I'm a newb, and don't have much insight yet or tactics, which is what you asked for. But I wanted to tell you I can relate , especially when you mentioned negotiating 'us' vs. 'him' time. And the rare yelling. In some ways, for me, it's been confusing that my RA is not mean, and does a lot of work around the house, and..etc...insert nice things here. I'm not saying I want him to start acting like a total jerk! But it really makes me....question......my head...like I'm the one that's crazy or unreasonable.....???? Yes it's confusing.
One thing that's helped me is to starting this creative project that I've had in my head for a couple of years. It's completely silly and has no point. I kept waiting until I had time, then found a way to dip in and out of it as time came up. Once I started I got really excited about it. So now when my RA checks out or our plans get cancelled or what not I have this fun thing that I'm eager to go back to.
What everyone else has shared is gold, .. it's terrific ESH. Boundaries are not meant to punish they are meant, (I'm having I love you guys moment .. lol), as promises to yourself. It has nothing to do with controlling what others do or don't do. You know what is ok for you or not ok for you. It's a wonky line at times for me.
A boundary for me is I choose not to engage with anyone who is being mentally or emotionally abusive. I can state this boundary or I can let my actions speak louder than words. I do not punish, by shutting down emotionally in anger and not speaking to them. I remove myself from the sitaution and sometimes I will say "I'm sorry you feel that way." and leave the room, not in anger. Or another one is "you may be right" and leave the situation. I choose not to engage further. My A is recognizing that I'm not putting up with the YOU YOU YOU statements. He's having to find different ways to communicate with me. He's also having to deal with his own stuff instead of projecting it over to me.
I had to ask myself How Important is It? What is my motivation for arguing? Need to be right? Usually that's what it boils down to, if I'm pursuing a line of questioning I'm looking for validation at the cost of someone else's feelings. I don't feel good about that.
I stopped asking questions that I knew the answers to. Gee honey you gonna drink or smoke pot today? I'd say in your case the answer is yes, you know, why put yourself through that? What do you get out of it?
The other question I want to ask you to think about is this, .. what are you getting out of debating with him or catching him in the lie? Are you living your life or is your life revolving around what he does or doesn't do? If the answer is yes to the revolving around him, what kind of life are you living? Do you want to be doing this 5 years from now? How do you plan on taking action (I'm not talking about the infamous stay or leave him question) I'm talking about do you have a life? Do you do things that you enjoy? Have you stopped living your life because you are trying to live his? Do you engage in talking about other things that interest you outside of him? Do your friends not return calls because your life has become so much about him, they already know what the conversation will be?
I'm not saying any of that is true .. kwim? It's a guideline that makes it about you and less about him. I can look back on those questions and I have some tough answers for myself if you asked me those things a year ago. WOW .. I would not have been happy with my answers at all!!
He's either going to drink, smoke pot or not. The question becomes what are YOU going to do. I vote you go to a meeting :) It's not my call only you can make that decision, it truly does make a difference. I can hear the pain in your post, the confusion and it's ok. We all go there from time to time it's a natural process of taking the next step. The library is a great resource if you can go. I've found if I am unsure about a book then I can at least have it in a trial run and decide from there if I want to purchase it.
Hugs, P :)
Lindaoakford wrote:
Thanks Pushka
I guess witout those books to hand at the moment, and no one else to really talk to, I am after some sort of tactics/thoughts/ideas that other people have used to remain calm in the face of this.
I understand you can't tell me what is right and wrong as we all have different understandings and situations.
I do keep getting dragged back into ratinalising and I do know better, but at the time the emotions kick in and I just revert back to trying to negotiate 'our' time and 'his' time. I know he will NEVER stop smoking completely, but I thought I could compromise the situation. Apparently not.
How do I set my boundaries without it seeming like a punishment, which will only give him justification (in his own mind).
Perhaps I should just give in and continue on as if it is not important at all, as if it is a 'nothing' event and just go out with him whether he is stoned or otherwise.
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Yesterday I think I accepted a bit more (not completely) that I am powerless. This is making me feel worthless however... I understand intellectually that is not true, but in my heart... it really hurts right now. What worth am I as a wife if I don't make him happy or satisfy him.
I do wonder what the point is if we are two people living separate lives... why stay married?
I have identified that I NEED to feel like number one, like the most important thing in his world... but I do also wonder, is that just because that is my sick mind set. He is all that I have so therefore, by golly, I will be all that you have...... Its a sick thought process isn't it.
I am not saying I do not need meetings.. I know I do.. its just not possible at the moment. I have a choice of two in my city (small city in tropical north of Northern Territory Australia) and they are both at nighttime. Strategically difficult. If there were a lunch time one... I would be there as my boss is good with that sort of thing. As far as online meetings go, would be great also, except I don't have the software at work, and not able to download it as I work on a government computer (tempting fate at getting introuble just being on this board during work hours). After hours, I think when you guys are awake and I am ready for sleep over here in Australia, I don't feel comfortable at this stage being on a meeting, feeling like crying and getting emotional while he is sitting there watching TV in the same room. My internet connection at home is very tenuous tending to drop out frequently. Thats why I do this stuff during my work day. I am sure as time goes, I will get to a nighttime meeting in my city, but at this stage, not able to so this forum is what I have, and I am still waiting for the four books I bought on Amazon to arrive. I ordered them a few weeks ago so may have to chase that up.
Thanks again...... I think you know how much this has helped, because you have all been here.
Linda, you won't know what to do UNTIL you know what YOU want! That's Al-Anon's #1 rule is "take care of yourself". To me this means, know and understand what is IN YOUR HEART. What do you want your life to look like? What are your immediate needs? What are your goals. TAKE TIME for yourself, what are YOU thinking deep down in your soul, listen to your gut feelings they are right for YOU.
By all means try harder to find time to do Al-Anon meetings whether it is in person or online, this is the most important thing you can do for yourself right now. You are all you got, and no one is going to take care of you better than YOU.
Take care woman, be strong, you can do this!
Sincerely in support, Oldergal
__________________
Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
What a wonderful discussion. It was really helpful for me too. I can identify with a lot of what you're saying. My exBF was both a drinker and pot smoker, both every day. My serious BF before that was also a daily pot smoker. I know that habit had a huge impact on our relationships and really took a toll. I am reeeeaaallllyy hoping through this program to figure out why that would be attractive and tolerable to me for so long as I'm not into that on a regular basis myself. I think I'm on the right track. I think you're on the right track too and I know it's really tough.
I know that feeling in my heart - why doesn't he love me enough? etc. but it's important to know that's not what addiction is about. You didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it. You CAN figure out if you love yourself enough. That's something I'm working on. And you CAN figure out how you want to cope with it. No one can tell you what's right for you except you or say how something specific in your relationship should be handled. You can decide to stay, you can decide to go, you can decide one day at a time. It really can get better with time and love and effort, and I think you're on the right track to take care of you.
