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I have used Al-Anon for my own family of origin issues before and always enjoyed the meetings. I have a specific question about a non-family member.
One of my closest friends is married to a severe, active A. We live in the same town, our children are best friends and go to school together and by sheer coincidence, our husbands now work together in the same office. Clearly, our loves overlap and are intertwined both through friendship, community, children, school and work. We have been friends with them ever since both of our families both moved to the same suburb with our young children/growing families.
My friend, S, is dealing with her husband's alcoholism in her own way: she will not attend Al-Anon, she says she is not ready. Her husband, B, has refused rehab. He has lost his license due to DUIs, has had several falls/accidents/scenes. He is high-functioning in that he still works at a high-powered firm and has lots of money/prestige, but through my husband we know he has worn out the goodwill there as well and things are tenuous at best. We keep waiting for the bottom to fall out.
I have told her that I am here for her when she is ready to get help, until then, it is too upsetting to constantly listen to each new tale of woe. She knows she has our family's support and love, but she really needs help, too. Our friendship has managed to survive and as long as we don't talk (constantly) about her husband's drinking, it works.
I don't want to be around her husband anymore when he is drunk. I obviously can't control when he shows up to the kids' sports games drunk or when he comes to school functions drunk, etc., but what about socially? For instance, we invited them to come visit us at the beach and I really wanted to talk to her and say, "B is welcome if he is sober" but I didn't have the courage. So, their whole family came up and joined our family and another family for a day at the beach. B was clearly drunk and belligerent, argumentative and just generally awful to be around. There were 10 kids total there that day and I don't want to expose my kids to this.
I haven't spoken to my friend about it yet. Clearly, things have gotten much worse for B as well as for S, because I think this is now her new "normal" and wow, is it ever NOT normal or appropriate behavior!
So this brings me to my very specific question: can I tell my friend that I want to see her and the kids but I don't want to socialize with her husband until he is sober? I want to be a good friend to her and her kids, but I am so uncomfortable around her husband.
I know my friend is really suffering but I do not want to suffer right alongside her while she is choosing to not get help. Am I being cruel/selfish to her and her kids by setting this type of a boundary or is this ok? I just need a little Al-Anon persepective: my instincts and my gut reaction is to say "never again!" but I could use some help mustering up my courage and strength.
It's so hard to see someone we love suffering and NOT turn around and say I know what will work. :) I don't know about the whole social thing I'm sure someone else will have a wise wonderful answer for you. Some thing I heard at a meeting last night was from a wise long time member, who said when her family member called with chaos they asked the family member do you need me to fix this or do you just need me to listen? With that they removed the need to try to constantly fix the situation. I'm def going to try that .. lol.
Has your friend verbalized exactly why alanon isn't for her? I vote for hog tying her and dragging her to a meeting .. sorry I'm just kidding. :) I don't know, I would probably try the I really want to share this experience with you, will you come to an alanon meeting if I go with you so you can see exactly what alanon has to offer. If she says no then I don't know it seems to me when her pain out weighs her emotional gain she will know you are there for her. Until that happens I know I kicked and screamed all the way in, and I even did so when the pain was so great. Everyone is very different and you know your friends best.
When all else fails I tend to turn things over to my HP and wait for the answer at this point. It's painful to see others go through experiences we've gone through especially when they relate to pain.
Hugs again, P :) Sending love and support to you and your friend :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
My friend says she is "not ready" and I have asked her to explain further. She says she will just sob when she goes there and I've told her, perfect! Everyone there will understand exactly what you are going through and will welcome you with open arms!
I have offered to pick her up and go into the meeting with her, to pick her up and walk her to the door and wait in the parking lot, to stay with her kids while she goes, for my husband to stay with her kids while we both go... you get the picture. I told her when she's ready, say the word. But until then....what can I do?
So now, I just don't want to be around her husband any more while he's still drinking. She has her version of coping mechanisms in place to deal with him, but I sure don't and it really gets to me.
Violynn, I am sorry to here you are having to see your friend go through the pain of the disease of alcoholism. By telling her you want to socialize with her but not her A husband should tell her something right there. I think the following is a true saying and innate to many people. "When the pain of where you are is greater than the fear of where you will be ...you will move......V, I think you have done a lot to help her already by offering her support and babysitting etc. Maybe some Al-annon literature may help too.
Good Luck and may your HP be with you.
Oldergal
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
My understanding has been that we all have to reach a bottom in order to get to recovery. Giving her your (both of yours You and Husband) boundary may not do a thing for her and or him and then maybe HP has other ideas. Fair, honest and just is about the best way to stop from walking on egg shells on the issue. It was hard for me to learn but not as hard as remaining in the dysfunction. ((((hugs))))
I wanted to recruit family members and friends to alanon too. The truth is we can only help and make choices for ourselves. My sponsor reminded me of two things from the Alanon 12 traditions. In tradition 11 it says that this is a program of attraction rather than promotion. The magic of the program of recovery is that people out there that still suffer want the sanity, peace and serenity that members in the program have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it. The other nugget of wisdom she gave me was this program is for those that want it, not those that need it. Those folks that want the program go to any lengths to get it. So, the truth is the best thing I could do for my family and friends is to be the best example of the Alanon program I could be as I may be the only reflection they will ever see.
I do not wish for my child to gain negative coping skills to deal with alcoholism in my home or anywhere else. I have a choice to go to those places with the A husband present or not. Your friend has no control over where her husband goes. Telling her you will not go to a place if her husband is drunk leaves two problems I see.
It leaves her to be responsible for informing you of the state of her husband and/or tell you if her husband is going to be there. The focus for both of you is still on the A.
I might be more inclined to find another way. Maybe you could invite her out for a coffee with you, without the children. Maybe take the children with you both somewhere and not invite either husband. Maybe have a girls day with the children.
I would be honest and let her know that I didn't feel okay with the behaviors exhibited by the husband while not in recovery to be benificial for my children. I would then go into other options. She will do what she will.
You have planted the alanon seed. If you currently go to meetings yourself, you may be able to pick up a pamphlet or something to give her and leave it at that. Alanon is through attraction as Tommyecat responded. When we practice the principles in all our affairs, we show others how wonderful this spiritual program is. I am not sure what to say about limiting when you see your friend. If I were that friend, I would feel pretty bad if someone told me they would hang out with me because of my A, and I would probably get pretty resentful and hurt. There may be a tactful way to say it, or you could just ask her to hang out just the two of you with the kids. Take care, keep coming ;)
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-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I wish my sister would go to Alanon. I went as far as to get her a meeting schedule for a group in her area. I wanted to keep bugging her because I'm tired of seeing her do the same thing over and over and over. But ... I was like that before I got in recovery. I wouldn't listen to anybody or anything until I'd had enough and decided to seek a different way. I believe that as individuals, we should each be afforded the dignity to choose to get help or not. This is no different than staying out of the Alcoholic's recovery. It's nice that you offered to help and gave her the information for the place that's helped you. Now it's in her hands, and she's the only one that can make the decision. Continuing to mention it/make suggestions is not different than telling an A repeatedly that his life would be better if he would stop drinking, and AA is available and he should go.
As far as going to events where her husband may show up, there's no way that you can control where he goes or doesn't. You can just decide what you're going to do. If he shows up drunk at your kids' games, maybe it could be a good opening for a conversation about the family disease of alcoholism. I've taken the straight up honest approach about it with my kids. Alcholism was never mentioned, and clearly something to be ashamed of, in my family of origin. I decided that I believe alcoholism is a disease and not a moral failure. My mom is still an active A, and I've explained to my son that when she acts funny or is drunk, she's sick - and we love her anyway, even though she's not herself. That said, I do not interact with her much when she's drunk because I don't like her behavior. It's my right to decide that I would rather not. I don't answer the phone after 5pm if she calls because I don't want to talk to a drunk person.
As far as other social activities, it seems like you have 3 choices: 1) invite their family out and accept the fact that he may be drunk because he is sick right now, b) don't invite them out, or c) invite your friend for girl time instead of planning stuff for the whole family. You can't change either your friend or your husband, but you certainly have the right to decide what will make you comfortable.
I'm not sure if I wasn't clear, so here it goes again. I do not talk about recovery repeatedly with my friend: I've made the (several options) offers once, she said she wasn't ready. I told her when she was ready, let me know, otherwise I couldn't continue to be her daily sounding board about her AH's constant problems. I totally agree and understand you can't "make" someone or convince someone to go to treatment. (I love the saying that this is a program of attraction, thank you Tommycat, that is a beautiful way to think of it.)
My question was: can I limit my interactions to ONLY her and her children and not make social plans (invite the whole family over for dinner, for example) because I no longer want to be around her husband when he is drunk. I am absolutely aware and stated that I have no control over when he shows up drunk to the kids' sporting events or to school events: those are public events. I'm talking about social events of a private nature.
In any event, I thank you for your responses, I think I've gotten a lot clearer just writing this out for myself and of course, hearing your responses has really helped.
