hurt hurt hurt - Al-Anon Family Group

ifa · Veteran Member

hurt hurt hurt

ifa · Veteran Member

I should also add that I cry very easily about anything, not just my qualifier. Sad book, movie, song, whatever, makes me cry. So it could be just my personality.

youfoundme · ~*Service Worker*~

I went through this and still do if I can't get ahold of my A. I start to worry and obsess if I can't find him, or get him to answer a text or a call. I worry that he is out drinking or whatever. What I do is get busy with myself. I call my alanon friend (who I am going to ask to sponsor me) and she helps me get out of my head. If she can't answer her phone, I leave a message and I come here. I post or read here. I get out my alanon books and read them. I write in my journal. And sometimes I am learning that I have to sit with the pain. Just let it wash over me and ask my HP to hold me through it. I am very emotional as well, I cry alot. I feel abandonded too a lot of the time from my childhood stuff, but thats my part in it. I hope you are making it to meetings and finding real time contacts. Take care of you! This program works when you work it and you are worth it!

ifa · Veteran Member

youfoundme wrote:
I went through this and still do if I can't get ahold of my A. I start to worry and obsess if I can't find him, or get him to answer a text or a call. I worry that he is out drinking or whatever. What I do is get busy with myself. I call my alanon friend (who I am going to ask to sponsor me) and she helps me get out of my head. If she can't answer her phone, I leave a message and I come here. I post or read here. I get out my alanon books and read them. I write in my journal. And sometimes I am learning that I have to sit with the pain. Just let it wash over me and ask my HP to hold me through it. I am very emotional as well, I cry alot. I feel abandonded too a lot of the time from my childhood stuff, but thats my part in it. I hope you are making it to meetings and finding real time contacts. Take care of you! This program works when you work it and you are worth it!

Thanks. I went through a lot of this in the past, and at that time I used to go to a meeting every week. There were years when my qualifier was very distant, and other years when he wanted to be with me all the time, and everything in between.

As he gets older his health gets worse, bc he has heart disease, etc. We're both around 60 but I am much younger than he is, health-wise.

So health is one reason he is sometimes distant. He feels we don't have a future, and that is probably true.

If I don't talk to him pretty often, I get worried that he died (which could happen any time in his case).

He breaks up with me any time he gets mad. So if I didn't do anything to make him mad, he probably didn't break up with me. And even when he does, he probably doesn't mean it.

Still, I always wonder if he broke up with me. I do have fear of abandonment. But let's face it, being abandoned is no fun for anyone.

I have been posting here because of it. Might try getting to meetings, but that is hard. There are some alanon women I could call, but I got tired of talking to them about problems. I never found someone who could be my sponsor.

I read Hope For Today, and I pray and do the steps, and I post here now. Meetings have become scarce around here. And not enough members to choose a good sponsor from. I am pretty far from any city, almost in the sticks.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Ifa,

What you describe doesn't sound healthy for you, it really sounds like obsession.

If you haven't read it already I really encourage you to read the book Co Dependent No More by M. Beattie, there is a great section in there that talks about healthy love and addicted love.

Love should not equal pain and what you wrote that sounds hurtful and painful. You are worth more than that as an individual and you deserve to love someone who will love you back.

Hugs and thank you for the share, P :)

ifa · Veteran Member

Pushka wrote:
Ifa,

What you describe doesn't sound healthy for you, it really sounds like obsession.

If you haven't read it already I really encourage you to read the book Co Dependent No More by M. Beattie, there is a great section in there that talks about healthy love and addicted love.

Love should not equal pain and what you wrote that sounds hurtful and painful. You are worth more than that as an individual and you deserve to love someone who will love you back.

Hugs and thank you for the share, P :)

But why do you think he doesn't love me? I have read books about love addiction, years ago. I realize I am a co-dependent, like everyone else in my FoO. But I still think it's possible for co-dependents to be in love.

ifa · Veteran Member

Also, as long as I know he is alive and ok and not mad at me, I am not obsessed. So most of the time I focus on my own life in I guess a healthy way. I don't let him control me.

NovSun · Senior Member

I am brand new here, this is my very first post. I completely understand your deep insecurity and overwhelming need to cry. I, too, sometimes feel complete sadness and lonliness, even though I am engaged to an alcoholic. I fear that if he doesn't call me that something must be wrong. I rack my brain trying to think of anything I could have done to "upset" him that could send him drinking.

I have realized just in the past few days of researching Al-Anon online that I cannot control what he does. I am not to blame for what he does. I can only control my own feelings and emotions. In those situations of intense sadness, I try to remember that I am a good person with a lot to offer this world. I try to think of things that make me happy and I fight like hell to chase those feelings of insecurity away. I have to remind myself to be stronger, wiser, better than I was yesterday.

I'm sure none of this is real-life practical information, but do know that you are not alone, that there are people out here who share in your feelings.

Take care of YOU,
NovSun

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

ifa wrote:
Pushka wrote:
Ifa,

What you describe doesn't sound healthy for you, it really sounds like obsession.

If you haven't read it already I really encourage you to read the book Co Dependent No More by M. Beattie, there is a great section in there that talks about healthy love and addicted love.

Love should not equal pain and what you wrote that sounds hurtful and painful. You are worth more than that as an individual and you deserve to love someone who will love you back.

Hugs and thank you for the share, P :)

But why do you think he doesn't love me? I have read books about love addiction, years ago. I realize I am a co-dependent, like everyone else in my FoO. But I still think it's possible for co-dependents to be in love.

I'm not saying he doesn't love you however how he loves is not without pain for you. He loves the best way he can. You can't control how he does it.

"If my qualifier doesn't call me after a certain amount of time -- say 12 hours -- I start to worry that he never will. Then I get a feeling of intense sorrow. If I try calling him and he doesn't answer, it gets worse and worse."

It's not about him controlling you. That's what that statement said to me. I'm not trying to offend just saying that's what I saw in your post.

Hugs, P :)

ifa · Veteran Member

NovSun wrote:
I am brand new here, this is my very first post. I completely understand your deep insecurity and overwhelming need to cry. I, too, sometimes feel complete sadness and lonliness, even though I am engaged to an alcoholic. I fear that if he doesn't call me that something must be wrong. I rack my brain trying to think of anything I could have done to "upset" him that could send him drinking.

I have realized just in the past few days of researching Al-Anon online that I cannot control what he does. I am not to blame for what he does. I can only control my own feelings and emotions. In those situations of intense sadness, I try to remember that I am a good person with a lot to offer this world. I try to think of things that make me happy and I fight like hell to chase those feelings of insecurity away. I have to remind myself to be stronger, wiser, better than I was yesterday.

I'm sure none of this is real-life practical information, but do know that you are not alone, that there are people out here who share in your feelings.

Take care of YOU,
NovSun

Thanks. I think there is a normal range of emotionality, insecurity, worry-proneness. Sometimes I might be within that normal range, tho near the edge, and other times maybe I go over the edge.

My mother has severe OCD, is on medication. Her mother was a very nervous worrier. I consider myself an emotional worrier. I have a deep sense of the tragedies of life, which I think is ok.

I am not someone who likes to block the negative side of life. Still, I am never depressed and always find joy in life. I am very spiritual.

I am very attached to my qualifier, even tho I am also very independent. I never sit around and get bored or lonely. I hate to waste a minute of my life.

So I don't know how bad it really is. I want to detach more. When he is in a good mood he is wonderful, but when he is unhappy I need to detach from him, because he can be hurtful.

I don't want to throw the whole relationship away just because it is far from perfect. As long as it seems like he loves me the way I love him, then I would like to stay with him.

xeno59 · ~*Service Worker*~

My A is my son so a little different dynamic here.
But I do have to say when I try to get a hold of him and can't..my first reaction is anger cause I have convinced myself he is out using, next reaction pure fear , surely something is going to happen to him, worry sets in and I can slip in my program at the drop of a hat if I let it ( and sometimes I do ). I start to question why he isnt responding, am I being punished, he is hurt, dead, lost his phone once again I could go on.
But the bottom line is it all goes back to fear. And I have found that my fears are usually me projecting the worse case senerio, that being he is hurt or dead. I think it through if that has happened I would be notified I have yet to be notified although he has hurt himself while high, nothing life threatning. It took me a good while to make one phone call and let it go. The more i think, project on him the more it takes away from my recovery. But after lots of practice its now one call and done. Eventually he calls back.
The subject of the A's ability to love... I know this, they love as much as thier diease will allow. Growing up with this disease I never thought much of the subject of love. A love was all I knew. But when my own son who pre addiction adored his family now can only love as much as his disease will allow him to. I have to accept until he finds recovery nothing but nothing will come before his addiction, it's how this disease works and protects itself. I firmly believe A's should be loved, there is nothing wrong with loving an A but they will only let you in so far. If love could cure this disease it would be cured, but it can't. If hate could cure this disease it would be cured. As I have now learned to detach my son from his disease, I can love him uncondtionally but hate the disease. I know I can only expect my A to act exactly as what he is and thats an addict, if I put any other expectaion on him I only hurt and disappoint myself. I can't expect him to be present for emotional support because he doesn't have the ability, just part of the disease.
I do hope you are getting to meetings and have started working your own recovery. It will answer so many questions for you and it will teach you new behaviors and coping skills in dealing with this disease. It affects us tremndously our behaviors, our coping skills which are usually unhealthy for us. You will find tons of support and love

Blessings

ifa · Veteran Member

xeno59 wrote:
My A is my son so a little different dynamic here.
But I do have to say when I try to get a hold of him and can't..my first reaction is anger cause I have convinced myself he is out using, next reaction pure fear , surely something is going to happen to him, worry sets in and I can slip in my program at the drop of a hat if I let it ( and sometimes I do ). I start to question why he isnt responding, am I being punished, he is hurt, dead, lost his phone once again I could go on.
But the bottom line is it all goes back to fear. And I have found that my fears are usually me projecting the worse case senerio, that being he is hurt or dead. I think it through if that has happened I would be notified I have yet to be notified although he has hurt himself while high, nothing life threatning. It took me a good while to make one phone call and let it go. The more i think, project on him the more it takes away from my recovery. But after lots of practice its now one call and done. Eventually he calls back.
The subject of the A's ability to love... I know this, they love as much as thier diease will allow. Growing up with this disease I never thought much of the subject of love. A love was all I knew. But when my own son who pre addiction adored his family now can only love as much as his disease will allow him to. I have to accept until he finds recovery nothing but nothing will come before his addiction, it's how this disease works and protects itself. I firmly believe A's should be loved, there is nothing wrong with loving an A but they will only let you in so far. If love could cure this disease it would be cured, but it can't. If hate could cure this disease it would be cured. As I have now learned to detach my son from his disease, I can love him uncondtionally but hate the disease. I know I can only expect my A to act exactly as what he is and thats an addict, if I put any other expectaion on him I only hurt and disappoint myself. I can't expect him to be present for emotional support because he doesn't have the ability, just part of the disease.
I do hope you are getting to meetings and have started working your own recovery. It will answer so many questions for you and it will teach you new behaviors and coping skills in dealing with this disease. It affects us tremndously our behaviors, our coping skills which are usually unhealthy for us. You will find tons of support and love

Blessings

Thanks. I have worked on recovery since about 25 years ago. Alanon became my philosphy of life, the best one I ever heard of, and I really searched. I still feel that way. My qualifier does have some control over my emotions tho. Sort of normal, because I have loved him for so long. But it is like my security blanket was torn away any time I think I will never see him again. Maybe that's sort of normal too.

The trouble is, almost everything is sort of normal, until it's taken too far. I need to find more serenity at the times when I don't know if he is ok, or if he loves me, or whatever.

And he hates it that I am so insecure. I act like I have no faith in his love for me. Well, understandable since he varies so much depending on his mood. But he doesn't realize that.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I wonder if you have read what many analysts think about attachment styles? To sum it up really quickly, the theory says that your relationship with your parents (how they responded to you when you were little and scared or trying out new things) influences your attachment styles now. There are the securely attached, the insecurely attached, and the distancers. The insecurely attached tend to panic when their other person seems to be unavailable, just as a two-year-old would panic if their parent seemed to disappear. The distancer felt smothered and so tries to feel safe by keeping others at arm's length. The problem is that the insecurely attached tend to partner up with distancers. (I think because the dynamic feels familiar to both parties.) You can guess how it works out then.

It is hard for me when this kicks in because that panic feels so real. I have to talk myself down: "I am grown up. If he disappears, I can live just fine. It doesn't feel like I can, but those feelings are not facts. I am not being left in the desert by the side of the road." My worry that the guy would run out on me was very real because I did tend to stay with guys who had that distancer thing bad. So I tried to control them (and my own anxiety) so the worst would not happen. Of course a situation where the other person stays only because you're hypervigilant is not a good dynamic. It drives you nuts trying to keep watch over everything. I should have just let them leave if they were that unattached. Easier said than done, of course! But the effort to try to get their reassurance all the time was making both of us crazy (and also made them distance even more).

Drinking is a sure-fire way of distancing yourself from someone. So no wonder that some of my distancers were alcoholics.

Recovery is so important for those of us who have gotten into these painful dynamics. I hope you can keep coming back and learning all you can. Hugs.

ifa · Veteran Member

Mattie wrote:
I wonder if you have read what many analysts think about attachment styles? To sum it up really quickly, the theory says that your relationship with your parents (how they responded to you when you were little and scared or trying out new things) influences your attachment styles now. There are the securely attached, the insecurely attached, and the distancers. The insecurely attached tend to panic when their other person seems to be unavailable, just as a two-year-old would panic if their parent seemed to disappear. The distancer felt smothered and so tries to feel safe by keeping others at arm's length. The problem is that the insecurely attached tend to partner up with distancers. (I think because the dynamic feels familiar to both parties.) You can guess how it works out then.
It is hard for me when this kicks in because that panic feels so real. I have to talk myself down: "I am grown up. If he disappears, I can live just fine. It doesn't feel like I can, but those feelings are not facts. I am not being left in the desert by the side of the road." My worry that the guy would run out on me was very real because I did tend to stay with guys who had that distancer thing bad. So I tried to control them (and my own anxiety) so the worst would not happen. Of course a situation where the other person stays only because you're hypervigilant is not a good dynamic. It drives you nuts trying to keep watch over everything. I should have just let them leave if they were that unattached. Easier said than done, of course! But the effort to try to get their reassurance all the time was making both of us crazy (and also made them distance even more).
Drinking is a sure-fire way of distancing yourself from someone. So no wonder that some of my distancers were alcoholics.
Recovery is so important for those of us who have gotten into these painful dynamics. I hope you can keep coming back and learning all you can. Hugs.

Yes I have heard about the attachment theories. I think I am both -- insecurely attached and also a distancer. And my qualifier is probably both also. I have learned to avoid calling him when he is distancing. But it is very hard. And I am trying to learn not to distance from him when he wants to be close.

Also, when he is distancing I try to appreciate the extra time I get.

My qualifier felt that his mother neglected him, and that probably causes some of his intimacy problems. I felt that my father neglected me, and that probably caused some of mine.

So no wonder he and I got together. If I try to understand what's going on, things are not as completely crazy.

The most important thing for me has to have my own life separate from him, so I can feel like I would be able to survive without him, if I had to.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Ifa I am, as always the one who is going to think differently.

"Also, as long as I know he is alive and ok and not mad at me, I am not obsessed. So most of the time I focus on my own life in I guess a healthy way. I don't let him control me."

hey who isn't upset if we fear if they are alive or not,hurt, or upset with us! I mean after we cannot get ahold of them. Or if they left us upset. or too much time passes.

My Daddy was always home on time, if he wasn't he called. Same with Mother.

My AH was always home by 6 if not he called.

Then he got sicker and stopped calling, would go to mommys house and I would call and she would lie for him.

Even if we are not married to an A, and we feel we need to check in,what the heck is wrong with that?

Crimany my little Pom was lost, I thought, for 15 min and I freaked out.

We are a people who thrive on routine.It keeps us centered. Plus of course we are going to be more sensitive to it when we have suffered a horrible loss when we could not find them!!

I have shared all the death I have suffered in my life. My vet asked me what makes me think if my animal is sick it is going to die? This was years ago. It made me think, I learned to accept things as they came and not immediatly think something is wrong.

BUT if my kids don't check in and I cannot get ahold of them, I get very concerned!

If I had a manfriend or husband, and could not reach them, and got a bad feeling, I would be upset too.

How do you think he would feel if you did not call him, did not answer the phone for 12 hours?

I believe you are just fine. Emotions are a good thing! Maybe you are more sensitive and you are more aware of the things that really do happen in this messed up world.

Are you dependant on him for financial or transport reasons? I mean if he "POOFED" can you survive without him?

Myself I never waited for a guy to call me where some women do.

Since we can only change ourselves, I would learn to tell myself, he is in HP's hands, not matter what happens it will be ok, which it will.

Learn to be ok, get lost in a book, think oh he will call when he does.

to me it is a matter of respect. They have our love, part of that is we have certain needs. I have a need to have him check in every day or every other day. whatever. If he won't/can't do that then I have to look at how I can change me.

I imagine me shrugging my shoulders, and saying ok whatever. Accept it as it is, if you don't want to live like that, it's your choice to end it.

If you do want to learn to be ok with it, then do! Learn to tell yourself, he is an adult,he loves me,everything is ok. Then continue to make you happy.

And be happy when he shows up.

I can share however, for me, if it is a need, and I do learn to detach from it being one, he cannot fill it anyway, whatever it is, I can start growing cold towards them. It is a natural reaction to taking care of myself.

Ok I won't care about how long it is inbetween check ins. they you go out and drink tea with someone, walk the dog, go shopping, take a book and go somewhere pretty. go get ice cream, go find a friend and go to a movie, volunteer somewhere you love to be.

there is nothing wrong with wanting a love one to be responsible and respectful of your wishes. To me that is manners.

I don't apologise for crying anymore. There is a reason for it, getting rid of icky chemicals.It's part of life!

Geez my dogs are always checking in with me, cats too. In fact almost all the animals back on the sanctuary were very routine. If they weren't I would be concerned and go look. It's our nature!

love,debilyn

ifa · Veteran Member

Debilyn,

I am very busy with my own life, I don't depend on my qualifier to keep me entertained. And I am financially separate from him. As you say, it is normal to feel bad if a person we love didn't call when we expected, or if they are angry at us. So that's why I think to some extent my reactions are normal. I may be overly sensitive and emotionally, compared to the average, but that's ok.

I realize there may be some love addiction involved in my fear of abandonment. But it's all mixed together with normal love.

It is very helpful to think of the attachment and distancing ideas, and how my qualifier runs if I chase him, and chases me if I run. That is somewhat normal human behavior, especially for people who did not grow up in a secure environment.

Extreme chaos and misery can usually be avoided by practicing the 12 steps and trying to stay close to the HP. And if chaos does break loose, we need these things even more.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.