The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Please share. If you have remained with your active A, or remained with them while they were still drinking but you were in recovery (Alanon) could you please share your experiences. I am new to this whole thing. I have found such great support here and at f2f alanon meetings. I try to differentiate between the "drunk" and the person. It has just turned into a lot of ignoring of him (my AH) and doing my own thing when he is drinking, and spending more quality time with him when he is not. Am I doing this right?? He drinks more often than not. I am still finding myself feeling very lonely when he is drinking, because we basically are two people in a house living separate lives...even when he is not, our efforts to have some kind of normalacy are in vain because he usually spends all day in bed because he is "tired". Conversation is very shallow and quick because the problem has become so huge that we actually have nothing to talk about anymore! We usually end up sitting for half hour in silence watching a tv show or something. Not exactly the kind of relationship I want to have. :( I want to think this can work, but I am still torn between whether or not I can do this while he still lives with us.
Have any of you remained with the A? How did this end up working? I know everyone's situation is different, but I feel I need some perspective. I know you won't tell me what to do, but I want to have a variety of experiences from which to draw information, help and undestanding.
I live with my active A fiance. He is trying, but is still drinking off and on. I have read the book Getting Them Sober, which is a wonderful book that helps you be in this situation. The words of alanon that helped me say: With out a spiritual program like alanon offers, living with an alcoholic would be too much for most of us (or something like that). This means to me that I can live with my A if I really dive into my spiritual program and work on me. My fiance is not abusive verbally or physically, I am safe so I can really do this. If you are in danger, thats different. Alanon never says to stay if you are being hurt physically. My fiance is actually very sweet and kind and thoughtful, he makes us smoothies in the morning, every morning, he makes the coffee and feeds the cats, he gets up to spend time with me before work and he watches my kids during the day. He cares deeply...and I care about him and myself too, so I keep working and take it day by day as this program says.
The book One Day at a time has helped so much. Read July 14, July 5 and keep reading more passages! When my fiance drinks I have learned to not fight with him. We can spend time together even if he has drank now and I do alot better with it. If I don't get on his case, we don't end up upset with each other. The other great resource is open AA meetings and reading the AA big book. They have it online in a pdf file to read for free, you can google it. The first chapters really helped me see things from his point of view and that it really is a disease. I have gotten phone numbers from my alanon meetings and I call an alanon friend all the time. We keep in touch and it helps me feel better about things, I get out of my head and she helps me with her wisdom of being in program. I will keep coming here too because the ones here with lots of time have taught me more than I can ever say in this short post. Tommyecat is living in it too. She is a wonderful, kind and caring person.
There are others here living in it, and yes, you can do it. Abbyal has taught me so much, she recommended July 14 in One Day at a time to me. When I finally got to read it, I knew why she did. When I let go and let God, and especially something RLC says: REMAIN CALM! DON'T REACT... and what Tom Canadianguy says: He is either going to drink or not, what are you going to do? And Jerry's wise words of spirituality and support.... There are so many things that help me through. Remember Easy does it. Take care of you. You are not alone! HUGS! keep coming, it works when you work it and you are worth it! You can private message me any time for support! I get support from others and this program only works when you work it and give it away too!
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-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
It's so different for each of us. that's why alanon is so important. I live with a dry drunk, there is no way I could walk this path without the support I've found here. I don't know what the future holds at the same time I have hope that I did not have this time last year.
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I love the reminder above, without such spiritual help, living with an alcoholic would be too much for most of us. Unfortunately, at this moment I am not with my alcoholic (in my home) but the hope remains that since he has chosen to walk through the doors of AA, he will keep going back. The one thing that jumps out is that the steps work, If, we work them. When I first went to alanon, I went to change the alcoholic in my life. I stayed because I realised my obssession on him was 'my real problem. We were as the line reads "when my husband and I got married, we became one, we became him." If it's at all possible for you to attend face to face meetings, it will make a huge difference. It's a We program, and for me personally, I've learned that I doesn't work so well. If when i'm with my alcoholic obssessing on him and only have my own head to reason things through with, I won't get too far. There is also the suggestion of waiting at least 6 months and working the steps before making a major decision to stay or to leave. Many times through our obssession with others, we lose the ability to recognize our own roles in our relationships and what we can do to change ourselves to make things better for us and at times with the alcholic. Just as the crazy thinking of both the alcoholic and our own reacting to it can spread from person to person around the room, so can our changed attitudes through recovery. I'm not in a great place tonight myself, but this is only my own experience of hope that in spite of it all remains tucked away deep down thanks to the many wonderful members of the meetings i've attended.
-- Edited by Unityforall on Tuesday 19th of July 2011 11:46:44 PM
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Ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not why they're built.
" I don't know what to do anymore......I feel so lost and sad." Those are the first words in the first topic "youfoundme" posted on Miracles In Progress on April 22nd of this year, two days short of three months ago. She is a Miracle In Progress and example for others to newcomers follow. Giving back to others what the program has given her.
odalis, the reply youfoundme posted above should give you the experience, strenght, and hope for you to continue doing what you are doing, going to meetings, reading your literature, and coming back to MIP. This program truly does work if you work it as evidenced above.
I am married to an active alcoholic. She is a good woman. She has a disease. Cunning, baffling, and powerful. The disease is in control and has taken over her mind, body, and spirit. I know she does not want to be consumed by this selfish, controlling, and often deadly disease that is only a taker and never a giver. I say again my wife is a good person, she only has a disease that neither of us want her to have.
When I came to the rooms of Al-Anon and was told I needed to change and I thoiught....no way, I didn't have the problem. Over time continuing to go to my two meeting every week, accepting the program at face value, not questioning the program, and working the program to the best of my ability my life got better, not overnight, but one day at a time. Nothing has changed except me. Little changes in me that over time showed me how to be happy whether the alcoholic in my life is drinking or not. Not reacting, not going to every arguement I was invited to, asking myself how important is it, separating the person from the disease, and recognizing my part in it. I have felt exactly as you feel. At times even now I have those feelings, but with the program I am able to look at the positives, have acceptance, and compassion. That took practice, practice, practice. But it was worth it.
My wife goes to several AA meetings each week but continues to drink everyday. Yes, I have questioned why does she continue to go to meetings, yet she continues to drink? I ran that by a member of this board on the phone a few weeks ago and he told me " Rod that's good, you never know when she might hear the words she needs to hear." He's right. Exactly right.
Being happy living with an actice alcoholic is an inside job. I am responsible for my own happiness. If I allow my life to become unmanageagle then the disease wins. Pardon me in advance, but it's a damn disease, it's not even a person, and with the tools of the program I don't let it win......anymore....... my happiness, peace of mind, and serenity come first and foremost.
Two and a half years ago I turned my wife over to her HP and got out of their way. That day I imagined myself in a dark room just the three of us...my wife, HP, and me. I pictured myself physically handing my wife to HP and telling him she is yours to do as you see fit.....and I imagined myself walking out of that dark room into the sunlight. I can honestly say I haven't gone back into that dark room once since that day. The three of us are all much better off because HP never needed my help in the first place. I know now He wanted me to do what I was told the first f2f meeting I attended.......Take care of yourself first and leave the rest to him.
Everyone's situation is different. That's mine above. Some would not live as I live. Some would throw up their hands and quit. Others would give up. Everyone has choices....insanity or serenity. I chose the serenity Al-Anon offers. Once again my wife is a good woman and a good person, she only has a disease, be it cunning, baffling, and powerful. But as a friend from the Big Island told me, "Rod she might hear the words she needs to hear at the next AA meeting she attends. I can only hope and have faith that my HP makes that happen. Until that day comes I'll do what I'm suppose to do........Continue working my program to the best of my ability and always take care of myself first......That's my story and that's how and why I stay.
HUGS, RLC
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 20th of July 2011 12:20:24 AM
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 20th of July 2011 12:24:14 AM
I am happy to say Yes it is possible , I was in this program for 3 yrs before my husband quit drinking I learned to get happy regardless of what he was doing . When I started this prog I didnt believe it was possible but was not ready to leave my marriage so had nothing to loose by working this program I learned to take responsibility for my own happiness , to take responsibilty for my part in this mess we had created I had a great sponsor to talk to etc. I learned to respect my husb again and had an understanding of his struggle with this disease when i started to show him respect things changed in our home .. there were so many relationships for me to work on repairing , our sons , ,my parents , his parents and a few friends so that kept me busy for awhile hehe. I was lonely too but was happier than I had been in yrs. Accepting life on lifes terms takes time . I was not ready to leave my marriage so I learned to BLOOM WHERE I WAS PLANTED . dont give up yet your new to recovery keep the focus on yourself and your own needs some times as we recover the alcoholic is encouraged to seek help for themselves . It only takes one person to create change . so keep goin back .. oh we have 20 yrs of sobriety in our home today and life just keeps getting easier . Louise
I think you've hit on something important, which is that when you live with an active drinker you can have a happy and good life, but it won't have that special kind of closeness -- that genuine intimacy -- that is possible with someone who's healthier emotionally. It can't because their first concern is the bottle, not their relationship with another person. We can make peace with that and not let it affect our own happiness, but it does mean that they won't be present for us in a way that would be possible if they weren't drinking.
In my case I found living with my active A was kind of like dealing with a child. You may love the child and care for the child, but you wouldn't tell the child your deepest secrets or expect the child to be an emotional support and confidante when you're going through tough stuff. Because that's inappropriate for a child. You just couldn't expect it of them, and if you did you wouldn't get what you need anyway. The difference in having a child is that you can have a child and a spouse too, but when your A is your child, you can't have a separate spouse to give you that more give-and-take intimacy. Unless you separate from the spouse you have, of course.
Everybody's choices are somewhat different, of course. That was my experience.
Wow....I am deep in thought now after reading your responses. Thank you! I have to remember one day at a time, because I might have a great day today and then I have a not so good day and I beat myself up over it. That's pretty much the jist of what goes on at home....I"ll think I'm doing fine then something happens that I could have controlled, but handled the wrong way. Anyway. Thank you for your input, I will keep coming!
I hope someone comes to this site for the first time today and reads RLC's post above. For any of us married or living with someone with this disease, that is such a powerful and helpful share. Thank you.
I found that the happiness and joy that was missing out of my life was always there, but it is locked inside me. Being married to an active alcoholic can be a difficult road to travel, but some people forget about some of the wonderful experiences that are there as well.
As a result of working the steps in Alanon with my lovely face to face sponsor, I discovered the following:
That I was married to my best friend, not a horrifing enemy
Alcoholism is a progressive disease that is cunning, baffeling and powerful
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything to which it is poured
I was only as sick as the secrets I was carrying
I was no longer alone, ashamed or afraid
I rekindled a relationship with a HP whom I trust and lean on daily
Peace and serenity are what I desire in this life, not resentment or bitterness
That true forgiveness is letting go of any notion of a better past
I have many family members that suffer from active alcoholism, my spouse, my mother in law, and my dear father. I love them all unconditionally and accept them completely for who they are. Alanon taught me how to love them with no strings attached. So I think I will wait until they join me in my recovery because it sucks for us all when I join them in their disease.
Great sharers by all!! Tommy, what you wrote really clicked for me. That's the bottom I hit, after working at a funeral home, I started wondering how would my children remember me? Would they think I wasted my life, because all the memories were full of my anger and bitterness? I knew I couldn't allow that to be the legacy I left to them or for myself. I deserve better. I'm going to copy down what you wrote tommy thank you!!
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Thanks for bringing this topic to this board. You've received from very good responses so far.
I know you asked those who have stayed with their A's to respond. I wasn't one of those that stayed; but I thought I'd share my experiences with you to give you more food for thought.
I was married to my ex-AH for 36 years. The last 26 years was hard, especially the last 10 when the disease got progressively worse. That last 10 years we lived a life much like you described. Working long hours kept me in denial; it's the only way I survived. But I finally decided that life shouldn't be about survival! I wanted more. So I thought the answer was a divorce.
8 months after our divorce I realized that I had a lot of emotional baggage left. Years of private counseling couldn't lighten that burden. So with great reluctance, I went to an Al-Anon meeting one night. I didn't like it, but I kept returning because I had this great nudge from within telling me to GO! I'm glad I struggled through those first few awkward meetings because my baggage is quickly dissolving. What my counseling sessions lack were the people you find in Al-Anon, you know, the ones that understand your experiences, thoughts and feelings.
Al-Anon has given me the courage and strength to listen to my intuition, which I believe is one way my HP speaks to me. After my ex completed his 28-day rehab in June, I asked him to come back home. Now, most, if not all, think I've lost my marbles and that is okay. One brother-in-law told me that, "I'm a B R A V E woman." His tone of voice reflected something different than his words conveyed. More like YOU'RE CRAZY!!!! But my "gut" tells me this is the right choice for me.
It's only been 3 weeks since he returned home. I know the reality of this disease. But I feel equipped to deal with it in a sane way due to Al-Anon. I don't live in fear of a relapse. If it happens, I will deal with it in a sane way. I do not look for signs. I take each day and revel in his sobriety today. (I will say that I do a lot of self-talk, especially in the morning to keep old thought patterns at bay.) He is retired and now we both say that his job is his sobriety. So far he has attended at least two AA meetings a day and attends out-patient care at the rehab facility.
I don't know what the future holds. It's one day at a time. I was once a crazy person, much like the alcoholic. Now, I'm "almost" sane and getting sanner (is that a word?) each day. I have to thank the program for that.
Take care of you, regardless of what he chooses.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
I started going to Al-anon before my A went into recovery. He was active and I couldn't possibly see how living with him would work at the time, but I felt compelled to try.
When I started going to Al-anon I was leaning heavily towards the side of leaving even though I didn't want to. One day I was leaving for sure and making plans for such, the next I was going to try again. Back and forth every day was my life.
Upon my first meeting I heard that major life changes might be better put off until I was in a better emotional place. It was suggested to me that a year would be best. I was so relieved!!! I was also excited that I was able to push the thoughts of leaving out of my mind and work on myself in the process.
My Al-anon program and practicing it really put the pressure on my A. The new boundaries and taking care of me was quite threatening to him. He was really angry that my new boundaries didn't make his disease very comfortable to nurture anymore. He had to deal with his own consequences and financially it broke him instead of our family. He moved out. He blamed me of course, and I moved on.
A year later he was working a very strong program of recovery and we ended up reconcilling. Six months ago he burned his big book and quit the program. He still doesn't go. He is not drinking and is a dry drunk imo. His thought patterns and behaviors are much like they used to be when he was active.
I am so happy with myself. I can relate to the feeling of being alone as I feel that way at times. I often miss the person I had after he started recovery.
His hp is leading him as mine is leading me. I do experience daily sanity while living with a dry drunk. I don't panick if he was to start drinking again tomorrow.
Sanity comes from within me, not based upon my surroundings. I can be in the most chaotic environment and be okay. My sanity comes from working my program and my relationship with my hp.
Wow... so many amazing and powerful responses to this post - all very positive and uplifting....
For me, I was unable to complete this task.... You are seeing many shining examples of those who either have, or are in the process, of trying to achieve/maintain their sanity while still living with an active A... Here is one from the other side of the coin....
Life is funny sometimes, and one of my favourite reminders is:
"it is okay to look at your past, just don't stare"
I don't sit here with too many regrets, about how my marriage situation dissolved, and/or how I handled things during my ex-AW's active years? Of courese there are things that I could have done different or better, but I have to remember that I was definitely sick and learning as well (I did the best I could with what I knew at the time).
I think I put all my effort/strength/faith into getting my AW into her first treatment program.... it took "me" many years of painful begging, pleading, coercing, manipulating - whatever it took, and FINALLY talked her into going to treatment.... Well, she went to a 28-day program, and I was SURE that life was finally going to be what I had hoped for and imagined.... Our kids were quite young at the time (4 & 2), so I allowed myself to open back up a bit, and believe...... Well, as life/fate/disease would have it, she relapsed just 11 days after getting home from her program..... I wasn't so much mad, as I was defeated and deflated.... I DID dive into my program at that time, and it helped me recovery my sanity & serenity, but I'm afraid that I/we never recovered from those very difficult years of active drinking, and the devastation of the relapse after I had pinned so much hope on the results....
It's not all bad.... after a couple more years of really difficult times - my ex-AW chose to go to treatment for a second time - without my coercing her - and am happy to report that she is over nine years sober today, and has long since re-established herself in her role as a mother to our two awesome children. I left about a year after she got sober - just found that there was nothing left inside, and we weren't growing back together at all.... To this day, I think she still is angry with me for not "sticking around until the miracle occurred", but that's neither here nor there....
The choice is yours, and you have read a couple of amazing and powerful posts about the power and resilience of people who truly work the program.... I just wanted to share this today, to provide some balance, and reminder that the disease is and can be devastating to relationships, families, etc - and no matter which decision you make (i.e. stay or leave), the most important thing is for you to get yourself healthy and serene....
I think I believed that, in leaving, my life would get "magically better", and that (of course) is simply not true.... Working my program has helped me tremendously, and I DO like myself better today, than I did in my days pre - Al-Anon.
Great topic, great replies..
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
While I'm on the verge of allowing my ABF back into my home, this was such an awesome and appropriate post to read today. The hope is there, but along with it I have the realization that it's possibly not going to get better.
Thank you all for your great responses and stories. Very enlightening to read both sides of the coin.
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~Kat
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. ~Voltaire
I agree with mattie. There is no closeness or intimacy, be it physical or mental, when living with your AH. In my case, mine is sober 2 years, and i am finding it even harder now than I did in the "drinking days." This is because I learned recently that the disease is more than the bottle, and their behavior continues past sobriety in many cases. Mood swings, cursing, flipping out for no apparent reason.
I too find it challenging to live this way, and find it like dealing with a child. My AH reacts to things the same way that my 4 year old neice does. I feel no ability to depend on him when it matters; when I need him most. That is the reason I have not decided if I can live this way or not. One should be able to depend on their spouse; to be able to rely on them when the going gets tough. In my case, when the going gets tough I handle it because he will do nothing.
I am still with my sober husband, and although things are much better, I am debating wether the drinking years and the unwillingness to take responsibility for his part in our past and the reluctance to work through it together now for a better future, is going to work out for me, I was responsible for half the mess, and I don't like that I did some of the things I did back then, I don't think I am like that now though, I think I have grown up and educated myself and am willing and open to try new ideas and concepts of working things out, I have never been like this before, I have read some wonderful posts on here of late, there is only so much I can detach from, maybe that could be a boundary, I don't know yet I have much to learn, I am affected by my husbands choices, and the only way I can see myself really truly being any different, is if I remove myself from the situation, or if he would be open to find healthier ways of dealing with his own life.
I have noticed that often the things we fear most are the cataylists for making things better, I am putting my faith in god here in my situation, and just sitting this out for now, I do not fear aloneness as much as feeling aloneness in togetherness, I am trying to evaluate my needs, and what I can and am willing to live with and without.
My AH is a binge drinker. He does not drink daily. He never has just one drink, or two or three ... This leads to black outs and other problems. Early in our marriage, we came to agreements about how often he would drink, and he's been careful not to get started at public parties and such, so I've put up (or practiced detachment) with the times he does drink - generally in front of the TV during the Sunday Football marathons. We "understand" it is his time to kick back and loosen up. I've been OK with that even though I am left out of the whole Sunday fun thing because I don't drink with him, and I don't enjoy football games.
He does have some of the "isms" though. Procrastination, and follow-up are two of his weaknesses. Late last year, he go into some legal trouble due to stuff over which he had full control, and which we agreed was his to take care of. Well, he didn't take care of things, and when it came to light, did not claim full responsibility; so he let other people suffer preventable losses. Fingers were pointed at him, the police became involved; they questioned me and questioned our neighbors. I found the whole process to be very unsettling and embarrassing.
That event, then a second large breach of honesty, shattered my trust in my husband, and just months prior to my 25th. I was ready to file for divorce, a fresh honest start, but also realized that I love him, that he love me, and that we have too much history together. I found MIP, started Alanon f2f, and later professional counseling. In the past 7 months, I've let go of the anger, still have some of the fear, and have only gained back some of the trust. I'm a work in progress.
The thing that helps me to know that staying is the right decision is to make a gratitude list. I list all those things I love about my husband, myself, and my life. When my gratitude list is longer than my gripe list, I feel as if I belong here. Then, I turn things over to my HP and have the faith that I am in the right place at the right time and the world is unfolding exactly as it should.
(((hugs))) Odalis; ask your HP for guidance, watch for signs. You'll know which path to follow. (oh, and keep coming back)
