how to not be a victim when you are being villainized? - Al-Anon Family Group

Iris lover of dogs · Veteran Member

how to not be a victim when you are being villainized?

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Iris lover of dogs wrote:
All I want is the truth. For him to acknowledge the truth about his own decisions. Is this too much to ask of an alcoholic? Is this sort of denial, this sort of turn-about common? Am I being co-dependant to be bothered by this? Thanks for your thoughts,

That's all anyone wants is the truth, the reality is that addicts do not know how to tell the truth because of the disease they are in I don't know if they even know what is the truth and what is a lie. It sounds like you want him to admit he has a problem and the reality is he has to want that for himself. Have you read the book Co-Dependent No More by M. Beattie? It has been a really big God send to me. There are other books out there that are good as well. This is the one I'm reading at the moment. The best way I stopped being the victim is to stop accepting responsibility that wasn't mine and being disappointed by the expectation that my A was going to behave differently. The reality is he is an addict and his behavior is that of an addict no matter how much I want it to be different. The 3 C's. I did not cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. :)

It is so very real and it can so be done. :)

Hugs, you are worth it!!

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi there. I can so relate all the things your AH says to you mine has said to me. I realized that is his truth in his irrational mind and world. You may never get those answers you are seeking, but to take care of yourself I hope you are making it to meetings and are looking for or have a sponsor? I read "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie and "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews and those 2 books and many others got me to such a great frame of mind after so many years of chaos and misery. I am sending you love and support.

-- Edited by flopadopilus on Friday 8th of July 2011 08:27:08 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Iris..."Is it too much to ask?" Yep it really is when the other person you're looking for validation from is the alcoholic/addict. Way too much to ask. If he were to try to give that validation to you it would increase his fear level beyond tolerable. Alcoholics are very sensitive and vunerable...that doesn't mean we "gotta" walk on egg shells all the time. He is responsible for his condition which include not being mature and rational and responsible...Blaming is found in all of those things and more. He will not attack his own disease cause that would mean thinking about not drinking and using which he is obsessively addicted to and which has a stronger relationship to him than you do. You're second or somewhere lower on the ladder when it comes to his drinking and drugging.

The co-dependent or enabling part is the part you play even with the best thoughts and intentions which still makes everything turn out worse even when that is the fartherest thing from your mind. Letting him have stuff he didn't earn by being co-responsible to the partnership...enabling. I did that with my alcoholic/addict and she then determined that she was entitled to all that was there and would steal it all before a binge...never saw a savings account go down so fast like there was a gaping hole beneath it in the bank vault. Alcoholics and addicts "need" to drink and use. If they don't they will feel mental, emotional, spiritual and physical pain. That's good pain if you don't try to cover it up for him...it is pain that could cause him to seek recovery. Course Alcoholism is also a fatal disease if they don't go crazy first (like where he is at now) or find recovery.

So you already know that you're not the problem...fix that firmly in your awareness and when he tries to blame you for something you're not or things you do that you don't...firmly and evenly (not mean) tell him "that's not the truth" (period) and then go do something for yourself.

By the way it is not so much denial on his part as it is fear and avoidance of change. He knows what the truth is and probably visits it more in a daily basis than you do. There a many many alcoholics who have lost their larynyx to cancer also. Booze tears up every part of a persons body...every part. Alcohol destroys cells and the most sensitive ones first...like the larynyx. More education just for educations sake is helpful because this is a life threatening disease and it isn't only his life that it is threatening; its been doing yours also for 6+ years.

Get deep into your program...follow the "get literature" suggestion and the "get a sponsor" suggestion also. Do the steps and the traditions and memorize the slogans. Find out where you have been in all of this and then reach back and help another victim find serenity in the program also.

I'm glad you stayed and I hope you'll keep coming back. We keep each other growing. (((((hugs))))) smile

ythannah · Senior Member

Iris lover of dogs wrote:
All I want is the truth. For him to acknowledge the truth about his own decisions. Is this too much to ask of an alcoholic? Is this sort of denial, this sort of turn-about common?

Oh, boy, it's very common!

The disease acts to protect itself, and part of that is denial and placing the blame on someone else (or anything else) for the drinking. "There is nothing wrong with me -- it's YOU who has the problems."

Thing is, it's not really your husband who's coming up with this stuff, it's the chemically-altered part of his brain that does it. My ABF calls it his "shadow".

You'll hear your own story many times over in an Al-Anon meeting.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi,
You will never get him to acknowledge anything about his disease without the help of AA.... and even then my hubby never has. (He got into AA in year 2000). My hubby also had pharyngeal cancer in 2007 and was given only a couple of months to live. He fought it with chemo and radiation and beat it (so far). He never had any surgery because the tumor was touching his spinal cord, so it was too complicated. He also had never admitted that his choices led to bad outcomes.

Your hubby's going on the offensive verbally against you is very typical. He is calling you everything that he sees in himself.... the glass half empty, negative, mean... that is what he is. You are simply truthful and saying what he doesn't want to hear. He wants to shut you up!

You know what the truth is.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes been there done that. An addict has a horrible disease. No they have no choice. Then can want to stop with all sincerity, but with out the help of AA, rehab, detox, a change in their whole life, it's almost impossible.

We have NO control over his addiction. We have no idea the brain damage they have gotten, their thought processes are messed up anyway, add a cancer fight to that....

I have zero expectations of an A. I accept them as is, which is everyones right, or I choose to not be around them.

Its not fair for us to change them. We would not like anyone trying to change us. If we give to them, which you sure have, that is that. It does not mean you will get anything in return, not even a thank you.

These people are very sick, very sick. They cannot put anyone else first, just is not in an addicts nature.

I made it a point to never mention his disease or how he felt or anything to do with beind an addict. I couldn't control it anyway.

Plus whatever age he began using, he has not matured since then. They cannot when they drug away, grief, lossses, etc.

Its hard but the only way we can live with them is to respect the person they are. Hey working more than half a year still being a progressive A is a good thing. They usually get to where they cannot work at all.

No he cannot just get it together. Not telling the truth means nothing to them. They honestly believe their lies. They can be barfing, making messes be totally out of it and say I am not drunk, and they honestly believe it.

For us it is a complete turn around to let them go,live with them as is, but we fix our own lives so we can be ok.

Al Anon is here for you. You will "get it" very quickly I bet, You are a thinker, responsible. Al Anon can give you tools so when things get uncomfortable, you will know when to NOT engage, or how to respond to bolony,. It keeps us balanced, or more we learn how from Al Anon how to keep balanced.

We learn that our lives can keep going even if their disease is killing them.

My ex Ah has oral cancer too. I am one of those that believes once one has a type of cancer that grows from our own cells, they always have it. It may be in remission but, still there. I think mine has two years left of the expectancy of five.

I too slept in the hospital with him during a brain surgery. ,To this day I don't believe he realizes the magnatude of my doing all that, my insurance paid for it as I did. I payed all his back taxes and more.

Just does not matter, as I am proud of me. My Hp is proud of me.

Its like loving a wild animal, feeding them, vetting them. All they know is the moment. They don't know really how to feel heartfully thankful. When using that is.,

If we get too close into their world, they bite us. So we take care of our own life, separate from them, Not like your dog or cat who love you and sometimes too much..sharing the same space, having special moments, but we cannot expect anything from them, as that is their nature.

I was thinking this as I feed two racoons every night! (c:

anyway take care of you, keep coming love,debilyn

Otie · Senior Member

Dear Iris, I haven't found it helpful to label myself. I say "educate yourself" and wear only the shoes that your inner self tells you that fit.

We know when something feels unfair and when we are being trampled on and hurt. All feelings are valid----how we assign value and handle the feelings determines what our life is like.

For myself, when there have been forces that are damaging to me (that I couldn't change), the only thing that has worked was to detach---emotionally and physically.. Alanon can help to understand the concept of detachment---the book---Co-dependent No More---gives a good explanation of this.

Iris, you are not in an easy spot right now but you are stronger than you feel. You can get to a better place. Just hang on, baby!

Soncerely, Otie

-- Edited by Otie on Saturday 9th of July 2011 08:20:00 AM

kael1539 · Veteran Member

Hi Iris,

I am new too. I have lots to learn but I can relate to your situation right now so much with my AH. I started going to Al-Anon off and on this past year as my husband has tried to get sober. Right now my AH is in a rehab center. I am running everything at home, taking care of making money, kids, house and he does not appreciate it. I can tell you the blaming and unappreciation never stops. I am still getting it times 3 from him while he is in rehab. He practically ate me up and spit me out when I was there for family weekend. And again, I got sucked in and took it all personally and was crying like a baby. Now I am working on detaching EMOTIONALLY and SPIRITUALLY as the Al-Alon literature states. I have done this before but get sucked in again only to get bitten again.

I am trying to grasp my mind around the fact that the alcoholic diseased part of his mind creates this nasty stuff. And I have been advised by the rehab counselers that the minute I take ownership of any of the crap he is spewing out to me, the focus shifts off of him and delays any recovery. This has been our situation for years, and I am the only one left sticking by him and have been his punching bag for years. Not literally but in so many ways.

I am making a promise to myself to stick with Al-Anon, not make excuses for not going and really embrace it. I am starting to grasp that our relationships with alcoholics are never "normal" with the expected give and take. I think that is why the codependency just escalates, the alcoholic just keeps taking and taking until we ourselves are lost. You asked if it your As behavior was common and it is not only common it is part of their disease. The crap doesn't stop when the drinking stops or early recovery either. I don't know about more successful recovery. Maybe some day I will able to comment on that, but I'm not holding my breath anymore! It is so hard and I can so relate to your frustation. Hope you can get some peace at Al-Anon!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Iris - I can try and give you my view on this as a now sober alcoholic: Your husband sounds A LOT like I was. For the longest, it was simply too big of a pill to swallow that all of my problems were the result of my drinking and refusal to grow the heck up. I see that now. I truly do. It took me about a year and a half into sobriety to suddenly open my eyes and realize the full extent of this. Up until that point, I would blame everyone and everything else for all my problems. I expected everyone else to be eternally optimistic while I poopooed everything and every possible choice that required work and responsibility from me. In retrospect, it was like being caught in this awful cycle and not seeing any way out at all.

Well, obviously the answer was to change myself and my attitudes. I thought I had tried this before, but I never really had....not to the extent of going to AA 7 days per week an REALLY opening up to a complete spiritual and mental shift in thinking. That is what it took for me to change. Prior to that, I would just tell the same sob stories as your husband.

So...I wish I could tell you a surefire way to break through to him, but "it takes what it takes" unfornately and some folks never have the kind of awakening I am talking about.

To whatever extent you can encourage him to actually do things that might facilitate a change in thinking...That will help more than trying to reason with his current state of insanity. Though you can't really control him applying for jobs or going to AA either... It is so hard to grow up at like 40 years old so I empathize with both you and him. It's going to "feel wrong" for him for quite some time and the easy cop out will be to blame others and relapse rather than stay the course.

Prayers are with you,

Mark

xeno59 · ~*Service Worker*~

Is it to much to ask for the truth?
yea it is. This is a problem we have all come face to face with and have had to come to terms that until the person acknowleges they are in need of recovery and works that recovery you will never hear the truth.
My son is an addict, he would come home high and swear he wasn't but i could see it, hear it and feel it for myself but that wasn't enough, I had to badger him endlessly until I got "the truth".
Why? I look back on those days (pre and early days of alanon) and wonder what I was thinking
Why was I believing what i was being told for so long and ignoring the clear evidence right in front of me. Getting myself so upset ( and him to ) so he would just say the words I wanted to hear, so that "I" could feel validated.
Thankfully I learned how to validate my own feelings and no longer felt the need to hear it from my son and it cut our arguments to pretty much zero.
Although your husband has been through a lot physically I have never known an A who wasn't depressed ever. Nor have I ever known one who doesn't blame thier problems on someone or something else, it's how this disease works. This disease lies, manipulates, hides etc all these things to protect itself.
If your husband has stopped drinking but hasnt sought recovery he will continue to exibit the same behaviors as he did when drinking. The whole point of recovery is not only sobriety but changing behaviors, replacing old sick coping skills with healthy ones, making amends to those they have hurt by not repeating the same ole behavior.
I hope you are getting or planning to get to alanon meetings and start your own recovery. We need it as much as they do because we have become so emeshed in thier disease we have lost our own identies, our own needs and wants.
Blessings

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