Delusions from Withdrawals - Al-Anon Family Group

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Delusions from Withdrawals

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha GailM...Delusions...Alcohol gets at the brain first before it gets anywhere else and when it does...reality disappears and the person...whoever...is left with a screwed up reality or delusions. What is unreal becomes real and what is real becomes unreal. The last word of the 2nd step of the 12 steps of AA is also "Sanity" which comes as a result of God becoming Higher Power and not alcohol. When that happens delusions become reality...sanity. Withdrawls means that that alcohol is still HP and still doing it's thing...the brain is still messed up and the alcoholic needs help...hopeful from other alcoholics who have been thru it themselves and found a way out that he will want for himself.

Don't feed into his delusions resort to responding with compassion as you have already been doing and work your program. ((((hugs)))) smile

sdisnie · Senior Member

My ex has had delusions too!! One time on a seriously deadly binge, he was in another state, calling me in the middle of the night telling me that my dad and I were watching him through the television and to please stop watching him! He really believed that happened, he's had similar things like this happen during other drinking episodes too.....try looking up wet brain....i have heard this term a few times and I think some of it is related to the delusions, but I could be wrong?

Otie · Senior Member

Dear GailMitchell, I was medical co-ordinator for alcohol and drug program for a large HMO at one time. I treated many people in withdrawl. I saw delusional states and sometimes hallucinations. Most of the time in the more chronic/heavy drinkers.

The fact that your husband felt that he heard voices transmitted thru the radio sound like it might be an auditory hallucination. The whole sleeping with the brother thing sounds more like a well circumscribed delusion.

The problem is that these symptoms can occur in a variety of other circumstances and conditions besides chemical withdrawl. For example: bi-polar disorder, schitzophrenia, dementia, brain tumors and lesions, etc..... Usually these symptoms, if, purely from chemical withdrawl, should be expected to clear after adequate detoxification---which varies according to the individual. If it doesn't, then a diagnostic search for another etiology would be indicated.

Gail, I am NOT trying to make a daignosis here as it would not be appropriate(or possible) in this setting. Just giving some general information that I have had experience with.

I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS ONE MAJOR CONCERN: I agree with you that your husband harboring this belief is potentially dangerous. It is my opinion that it would be a safety measure for you to contact the person who is managing his MEDICAL withdrawl/detox and provide them with the information that you have in this regard.

If a person is in a delusional state (and perhaps hallucinating) they are capable of being a danger to themselves or another (depending on circumstances). The person caring for him might not be fully aware of these details. For example: they have no way of knowing if you are sleeping with the brother or not!! Also, he MIGHT not even mention it to anyone. Also, does he have any guns/weapons at his disposal? Has he ever been physically abusive in the past? This is all information that his case manager should have.

Gail, I am writing all of this in the interest of SAFETY FIRST. I say the more communication with medical personnel the better. I would always rather err on the side of caution.

I can understand how scary this is to you. I hope that this is some help to you. Hopefully, things will eventually return to some sembelence of "normal"

Very sincerely, Otie

-- Edited by Otie on Friday 3rd of June 2011 08:29:12 AM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

My experience is bil was always delusional. He did not drink or anything for years.

Always depends on the person.

After awhile the liver cannot handle all the alcohol it is trying to filter, liver tissue breaks down, repairs itself but the scar tissue does not do the work of a healthy liver.

Cirrosis. So now we have poison running thru the blood everywhere. The brain is now compromised. Fed this crap and little parts die. So now we have brain damage some that does not heal.

My ex ah got sober but is still raving mad, a monster.

I learned from being with people I loved who were dieing, that when their liver and other organs are not working correctly, their brains absolutely do not.

This is what makes us have to think about ourselves., We honestly have no control. Work on protecting ourselves from the
A's disease symptoms.

Makes me sad he is so miserable, then it hurts you and yours too. Can you imagine how hurt he is believing this?

hugs hon,deb

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry R, disnie, Otie, & Deblyn:

Thank you for your replies. They're helpful.

I went to visit him in the rehab, where he is detoxing still. I wasn't certain how I would be receivied. At first, he appeared really depressed and eventually admitted to feeling very down. I asked him right away if he wanted me to stay awhile. He said yes, and that he would like me to stay for the family meeting that began at 7 PM. I was intending to go to a meeting at the time but decided to stay upon his request and to satisfy curiosity.

Before the meeting, we were sitting apart from everyone else. A young female counselor came to introduce herself to me. He told her that he was upset because it had been suggested by another employee that he should stay for the full 30 days and not just for detoxing. He had shared that info with me a few minutes earlier and I had encouraged him to go for it. He said all he needed was detox because he knows what to do to stay sober. I replied by saying evidently your program isn't strong enough, otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here discussing any of this. So the young counselor also suggested that he stay the 30 days.

While the counselor was sitting there with us, I took advantage of it. (She also told him that she would be his counselor.) I told her my concerns about his delusion (the brother and I). I told her that he lives on the same property as this brother and that I'm quite concerned because he still believes that we had a "dirty" fling, not just a fling. (I'll spare you the details that he shared with me.) So at least she knows, because he would have never told her. He is that way.

I also shared with here that he wants to lean on me and not those AA members who have befriended him. He is far more likely to call me than them. She reiterated what I always tell him. I hope she can address this issue more within the coming month

As I left, he stated that he hoped he wasn't going to be angry with the counselor and me for "making me stay longer." I firmly told him if that he decides to stay, it'll be your choice." He is very good about blaming others - typical alcoholic behavior, I know.

I stopped by my former in-laws' (his mother, brother, and the brother's wife) house after visiting with him. We discussed the seriousness of the situation and how we think he would be a danger to himself and others if he got out right away.

Sunday is Family Day at the rehab facility. From 2-3 we can meet with a counselor and him. I think we'll all take advantage of this opportunity. I want to call the facility to confirm what I understood this will be: 1 counseling and us.

One thing I don't understand is that he seems to like it when I'm there at the rehab. He thinks I slept with his brother, but yet he wants me to visit. I don't get it. When I asked him if he still thought it was all true, his reply was, "I hope not." That's it. He is a very poor "oral" communicator, has been all his life. When visiting with his brother after meeting with him, the brother said he had called the day before to talk about the delusion (the brother and I).

Of course, since he is a chronic, heavy drinker, he isn't bouncing back quickly. This detox is taking much longer. His equilibrium is bothering him and it's evident.

Yes, Debilyn, I think of how he must feel and that is when the Serenity Prayer helps me to put one foot in front of the other. This is no way to live. He is living his will, not his HP's. I hope they can get through to him and soon, before it's too late.

Again, thank you all for your replies. GailMichelle

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Friday 3rd of June 2011 08:52:59 AM

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Friday 3rd of June 2011 09:00:45 AM

Otie · Senior Member

Dear GailMitchell. I was glad to hear the info. contained in your post.

It is so good that you are having communication with the staff and that you and his family are working together with this. I am hoping that he will stay for the full time. He really needs it----and you can use some rest!

Gail, about delusions---it will not make sense to you. His brain is not functioning correctly at this time. You are trying to apply logic to the illogical.

Basically, a delusion is a fixed false belief based on incorrect interpretation of external reality. It will be firmly held in spite of any/ or all evidence to the contrary. What other people say about its validity will not sway him. It will pass only when his brain is ready to release it. As long as it persists, his caretakers should be appraised about it. Especially, if and when he prepares to leave, because there can be legal issues that come into play (harm to self and others).

For right now, hopefully it will clear as his brain clears the effects of the alcohol. As you know, the brain doesn't return to normal function right away.

Good job, Gail

Love, Otie smile

ythannah · Senior Member

My ABF had some scary delusions during one of his past withdrawals that mostly involved arguing about whether or not he deserved to live with some sort of "death angels" who had come to visit him, and members of a religious group spying on him through his computer and the cable TV. He was also very sleep-deprived and paranoid hallucinations can be an aspect of extreme sleep deprivation.

At the time I thought it was funny how the brain always goes to threatening and paranoid delusions -- why can't delusional people have hallucinations about playing in a nice sunny meadow or something pleasant? (I'm going to be a neurobiologist in my next life, lol)

As Debilyn says, once the liver has become damaged it loses its ability to process toxins in the body and the occasional build-up of poisons in the brain will cause delusional thinking. I saw this with my mother when she had advanced cirrhosis -- she was convinced she had lost one of her legs as a young girl during WWII when in fact she had both legs firmly intact.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

ythannah - thanks for your comments. My ex sees things that aren't there, too. For example, he told me last week that Ninja type people are looking through his windows at him. He also thought he saw his brother with a towel wrapped around his head, while holding a gun. Just crazy stuff like that. Fortunately, one of our sons took all of his guns out of his house and put him in rehab.

Last night, he was wearing shorts and thongs; therefore, a lot of skin was showing. It was the most driest skin of ever seen. I went to the store to get him some lotion. He looks very unhealthy; I'm certain there is liver damage. How could there not be? Again, thanks for your feedback.

Otie: thanks again for your feedback - quite helpful.
A few years back when he was still at home, there were two pictures of flowers in our bedroom. One night I walked in there and found him face to face with one of them. He turned around and accused me of purposely putting them there to drive him crazy. I think he said "mess with his mind." He thought the devil's face was painted in the center of each flower. He still believes this is true. (I asked him last night) So in his case, all delusions do not dissipate. Perhaps it's because his brain is drenched again with toxins.

I'm concerned about this latest delusion about the brother and me. Like I told his family members last night, we'll have to wait and see. Furthermore, we will have to work with the counselors to do all that we can.

I went to the rehab facility last night with mixed emotions. On one hand, I thought that I was trying to rescue him again. However, I think I was doing it more for my own safety. I wanted to check him out to see where he stood. It just so happened that the counselor came over to us, and that is when I could tell her about his delusion. If I had waited just 5 minutes later to arrive, I would have missed her. I like to think it was a "God thing" and not an "odd thing." (someone shared that slogan on this board.)

At the time being, I do feel my life could be in danger if he were to get out and still harbor the delusion. His guns are taken away and are under lock and key. But what is there to prevent him from purschasing another gun? His family and one of our sons do not want me to disclose the gun factor at this time.

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Friday 3rd of June 2011 11:59:37 AM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Gail I hope you didn't take my saying can you imagine how he feels believing his own illusions, as a bad thing for me to say. I wasn't really asking I was honestly for the first time thinking how much it hurts us when our lover cheats, and you did not. Yet he knows you did, ugh.

He is basically insane. So nothing he says matters. He does not "think" like we do. We cannot rationalize insanity. I learned to just love him, knowing he was and is very sick.

Its a continual thing of rembering things we have learned.

I learned too, it does not matter what you or family shares. The counselors will ask the A questions. I told more than one my AH was suicidal. Also that he had tried 3 times that I knew of. They asked him, he said no he never tried. sigh.

So they put on his eval, not suicidal.

Glad you are here, remember to put more into YOUR life. love,deb

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Gail...just to add to all the great stuff you have already received...Gosh MIPers have nuclear ESH at times ("at times...the qualifier) LOL.

When the family can attend just "suggest" they attend...for themselves so that they can come to understand also.

It is good that you can inventory on your feet...what you are doing and your intentions for doing it. That is how we fix ourselves. Learning to bring myself aligned within the program is what recovery is to me. I am not higher power.

I grew in a spurt when I could identify the difference between my wife and my alcoholic/addict along with my expectations falling into line when I was with either or both of them.

Good recovery work. If the "affair" is a delusion...it isn't real. If it isn't real don't react as if it was....lessons from a former sponsor. ((((hugs)))) smile

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Gail)))

He is delusional, your not. He is not working a program, you are. He has not changed, you have. Three things to put on your gratitude list. The courage to change the things we can and the wisdom to know the difference. That's a great place to be.

In Support and HUGS,
RLC

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Debilyn - Honestly, I did not take offense. No worries.

My heart goes out to him because of the pain he must be feelings as a result of his delusion. My hands are tied; he thinks what he thinks - what his sick mind tells him. Hopefully, he realizes that it didn't happen. Time will tell.

Thanks for all your support!

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Update: I spoke with a counselor from the rehab today regarding ex's delusion. Counselor said that it's not normal for him to continue believing in ths delusion for this long. He will have the psychiatrist evalute him asap. He says that he suspects something else is going on, in addition to alcoholism, and it might be treatable.

Ex has agreed to stay the full 30 days and not just for detox.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

The type of delusion you are describing is a combo of a persecutory delusion and a delusion of reference. The persecutory part is about you sleeping with his brother, the reference part is about the radio transmitting conversation about him. These delusions are not very common in detox from alcohol to my knowledge (maybe from harder core drugs). Those type of delusions are consistent with a psychotic break. He could have been drinking so much that an underlying schizophrenia was masked. It could be that the detox is such a shock to his brain that a brief psychotic break is occurring. They will probably put him on antipsychotic drugs and you will see a big shift in his behavior. At least I hope so.

Prayers for your strength and for him to start seeing God's will for him as he sobers up.

Mark

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Gail))),

I remember Tim having hallucinations when he first came back home. He would see snakes crawling down the walls, his ex-wife outside looking in through the windows, etc. He once called me at work to tell me to bring home more vodka because there were people inside having a party. That was an impossibility because he was so sick he couldn't get out of bed. 24 hours later I took him to the ER. That's when he entered rehab. He told me later of some of the more horrifying hallucinations he had. Pretty scary. The good news is once he got sober the hallucinations stopped. Only when he relapsed and went through detox did he have them again only not as severe. Prayers that he finds his way to sobriety. Much love and blessings to you my friend.

Live strong,

Karilynn & Pipers Kitty

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