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Our son is twenty he lives here at home, he is a sensative lad with an heart of gold, he is always ready to help anyone, is sociable and gentle, he's gulable and daft, he likes getting drunk though and has been out of his head three times this week already, last night he came staggering home just after midnight, he knocked his computer off it's stand, he was hanging out of the window being sick, he was screaming abuse at me, said he didn't 'xxxx' care about me, didn't worry about me and to 'xxxx' off, I didn't sleep all night worried he might be sick in his sleep, I got up early and had a coffee I read courage to change, I came here, and I think about Debylyn saying love the person not the decease, I could never do that before never, but today I can, he got up late, said morning mum, whats wrong? I said your kidding me? he said no what? He had no clue, and I belive it, It has taken me along time to get to the point where I can be happy wether the person is drinking or not, I don't like this at all, who would, but you know what, how nice to not feel it's pulling me down too.
katy
x
-- Edited by canadianguy on Friday 27th of May 2011 10:26:04 AM
WOW, Katy, what a great place to be! I can love my son and hate the disease now too. I can also have a lot of compassion for what your son was going through last night even if he was talking terrible to you. It is not them and we all know it.
I will keep your son in my prayers. He is so young and will hopefully decide to get help one day. Just love him for now.
Wow, I have so been there with my bf, and him waking up the next morning having NO idea what happened...so if we sit and dwell on it and yell at them about it, it makes it worse right? So I am learning to let go and stop freaking out at him in the morning. This week hasn't been bad, actually he didn't get in a black out at all this week, even though he did drink a couple beers two different nights...I have also learned to stay out of the way and do my own thing if he is in a black out. He will usually just pass out if I leave the room. When I stay and start a fight is when it gets bad. We have to get off their backs and into our own recovery so that they start to see and get better...So much easier to say than to do...it works when we work it right? HUGS! I hope you have a restful and serene day!
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-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
Hi Katy - your son is only twenty and still a kid in my eyes so I'm going to share with you something I saw and swore to both my girls I would do to them if ever they came home in THAT condition. I saw it on a talk show a LONG time ago and loved the idea - a teenage daughter came home wasted, throwing up, ranting & raving, hair plastered with puke by the time she was done and the parents took pictures of her (now days I'd take a video to capture the vile language/behavior). They showed her the pictures the next day and said that if she ever came home in that condition again they would publish the pictures in the newspaper. She didn't repeat the offense and when she turned 18 without another incident they gave her the pictures. My thought with your son is to record him screaming at you, show him the recording the next day and then state what your boundaries are in regards to his behavior and you being treated so badly.
I sometimes wonder if I'd had a recording of my H's horrible behavior while drunk and ranting at me would it change anything? I sent him an audio recording of himself saying awful things but all he did was say he was a different person back then and I'd made him mad so it was mostly my fault. But he's 46 and his denial is deeply ingrained in him; Twenty may be young enough to get through to him that way. Just my thoughts. Cheers
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Thank you for your post, as I am struggling with detachment with love from a friend. I still like him and care for him, but I certainly do not like or care for his choices in how he has been interacting with me of late (ie passive aggressive, cold shoulder, etc).
Despite his bad behavior, I have an amend to make. I am realizing how important it is for me to express myself in a loving manner. It appears like I'll have to just leave my amend in a voicemail, as he is currently not speaking with me.
When someone does this, I tend to think of all or nothing; today, I realize that he may feel free to behave this way, and understanding or not understanding the impact on others, return to the friendship. My exha had behaved this way and I have come to learn that with him this is a tool for manipulation. They had choices and it would have been nice if they chose to express themselves in a kinder way. I know I cannot change this.
I managed to sleep well and I have a lovely day planned for myself- a f2f, horseback riding and practicing my golf swing at the driving range. My intentions for the day are to be good to myself and to continue to do my best to let my sad and angry feelings pass.
Thank you again for your share- it helps me feel stronger.
He is here now with me, he is listening to my mini disc, it's a new day and I don't want to bring yesterdays fight into this new day, whats done is done, I don't like that this is happening of course, but it is what it is and we both feel alot better dealing with it like this, I have fought a drunk for many years it got me nowhere.
Excellent point! I had been feeling that if I started each day fresh without addressing the issue, it would be like giving him permission to treat me badly. But, you are correct that they do what they will do and it is what it is. Thank you for this perspective- this would not be a battle I could possibly win.
Bud I was going to add, it might seem like I am rewarding bad behaviour, but actually what I am trying to do is behave respectfully, when I kick off I am as bad if not worse, also I feel like there just maybe some ounce of something inside them that might realise that we love them so so much and and keep the focuss on them, not us.
Then, perhaps, I will leave my amend on his voicemail and not worry that he will perceive it as permission or a reward for bad behavior. If nothing else, it will be good practice for me.
Dear likemyheart, thankyou for replying to me, I wouldn't shame him though, because I would feel horrible, what I will do though is ask him to clean the sick off the roof, and if the nieghbours heard the shouting and swearing to go and apolagise, those type of things are my boundaries he crossed, I also if I'm strong enough don't allow him to lie in bed all day if he was up all night drinking, these kids are nocturnal these days if we allow it.
Dear Kathy, I can relate to your situation very much.
The A present in my life is with my children. I am trying to detach now because there is no other course. When my oldest son was your son's age and did such things I raged and raged. I knew no other way at the time. I was so hurt, disappointed and most of all frightened.
I had never lived around addiction of any type in my personal life. (The great irony is that at that time I ran a program for medical detox for a large HMO). Working with others is NOT the same as living with it with your own loved one.
My main point, though, is that I didn't know where and how to place boundries and enforce them. I thought that my outrage would be enough negative consequence for him to rethink his behaviors and decide to take corrective action---because he loved his mother/family; to aviod negative consequences; preserve his health; etc...... But, he was young and didn't connect any of those dots. He thought that I was just nagging him because mothers are control freaks and exist to control their children. He just wanted me off his back.
You can see, plain as day, that I played perfectly into his hands. Not to mention what the screaming and yelling did to the atmosphere for me and the rest of the family. Basically, all it did was cause everyone to resent me for the screaming and yelling. He did the behaviors and (with my own unwitting assistance) I bore the "blame"---and, of course, the mother's guilt!!!
He is much older, now. I learning how to detach (it is hard for a mother) and ENFORCE BOUNDRIES!
If I could go back to your son's age I would set and enforce boundries swift and hard. I would try to do it quietly and with as little drama as possible. And I would refuse---refuse---to wear the mantle of mother"s guilt!!!
Kathy, I am writing all of this in case there is something in the content that will help you in coping with your situation. I relate to you so much.
I send this to you with Love, Otie
-- Edited by Otie on Friday 27th of May 2011 09:22:52 AM
Thankyou Otie, and yes I value your esh, the guilt you speak of is very real, it feels differently dealing with a child other than an husband, or even my brother, the bond is so so strong, it's very very tough fighting our hearts and enforcing tough love, we set our lad free last year and it broke me but I stood firm believing it to be a chance for him to learn by what he was doing to himself and his family, my husband cracked and wanted him home, I didn't feel he was down enough to have learnt, so we took him back with boundaries, no drinking on a work day, no coming home drunk, let us know if you are not coming home etc, he broke them all, hubby and I both agree with what we want from him, I won't give him money, but I will make sure he is fed well, and his clothes are clean, we seem to take it in turns who is strong and weak, he plays us, I went away for a few days last week and son phones to ask if I would ask his dad to lend him money, I said no,makes you feel crap it's misplaced guilt I think, hubby told him last night before he went out, your going to be 21 next, this life your leading will do you no good, I am going to give you one month to sort yourself out if not, I will ask you to leave, and then you can get as drunk as you like and not have us nagging you 24/7, he cried. thing is, letting them go is torture hell even, the worry phew, it's tough make no mistake!
Thank you for your post. It's an excellent example of separating the person from the disease.
I wish I had known what you know years ago while living with my former husband.
I appreciated all the responses you have received so far. I especially appreciate Otie's response.
Otie wrote, "When my oldest son was your son's age and did such things I raged and raged. I knew no other way at the time. I was so hurt, disappointed and most of all frightened."
I would rage at my alcoholic too, because I was hurt, disappointed and most of all frightened! When we are wrapped in fear, we are so detached from the love that is deep inside us, and as a result, our actions and words can get ugly.
When I recall all the ugly things my former husband said and did, I realize that fear was governing his actions. Some might say it was the alcohol. But why did he drink in the first place? Bottom line to me is fear and some frustration over not knowing how to get what he desired. Instead of learning coping skills at an early age, he discovered the bottle.
Whoops! This was to be a short response.
Thanks for sharing this AM. It helped me so much. Also helps others! Have a great day.
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Friday 27th of May 2011 10:31:29 AM
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Friday 27th of May 2011 10:33:10 AM
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Dear Katy, I am always happy to share my experience if there is any way to spare someone else the same pain. At least something is gained from the suffering.
As I read your last response, it was like I was standing in your and your husband's shoes.
Therefore, I would like to give you this little tip: Just in case your son doesn't "pull it together" in the next month as your husband has admonished him, you had best make a plan for enforcement and carry thru. NOW, it is time for both of you to be strong at the same time. The best thing is if you and your husband discuss with each other your fears, your planned responses (your what-ifs), etc. very thoroughly with each other. It is crutial that the two of you be on the same page--if not, your son will split the two of you like an english muffin and leave you all fighting each other as he slips away with the focus off of him.
Katy, your son knows every one of your buttons. Our children always do. We have, over the years shown them where they are and they have had a long time to study/practice them. Keep this in mind so you won't be derailed so easily. Also, it helps to remember that what looks harsh on the face of it is actually a very loving thing to do for him---preparing him for survival. The outside world is NEVER going to treat him as tenderly and nicely as you have. Katy, I know that you know this, but it is really hard to remember in the heat of battle when every button you have is being pushed. Trust me.
It isn't that he doesnt love you, he really does. I believe that it is that he is protecting his own level of comfort (we all do) and also preserving his relationship with alcohol if he truly is in the grips of the disease. At least, this is how I look at it.
Katy, I am with you. I too have asked my son to leave at the end of the month which is a few days from now. He is in his 20's and just doesn't get it yet. The abuse of alcohol, the physical, emotional, and spiritual damage to himself. If only he could wake up and see himself. It is truly a disease. I am with you and you are in my prayers for a smooth transition for your son, so that you and your family can have peace. It is such a heartbreak. Good luck and be strong, don't let him put you on a guilt trip.....
Sincerely Oldergal....
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
We had a lovely day, when hubby came home we went out to eat, and then son says he's going out again, on his motorbike, I said no, not on your bike why he said? because you had far too much drink and it's not wise, he tried it on a bit but I never faultered, so he went off on his cycle, I said are we going to be late again he said I don't know and went, so he came back early hours of this morning again drunk, woke us up, no conflict this time, so I went in his room this morning and said, did you drink again? he said no not properly, I said well can you get up please you will be up all night again if you lie in bed until lunchtime he said leave me alone, I said when you wake me and your dad up we don't get the luxuary of catching up, tonight when you go out if you go out the door will be locked at a certain time and if you are not in, you will not get in, and he said if you had let me have my motorbike I wouldn't of stayed out late, and it is the weekend, I said it's been the weekend all week for you, so I have shut his door calmly deep breaths katy, the tablets are working, and tonight the boundaries will be enforced, I know I am making light of this, but it is serious and it does rackle you, he's trying to lay the guilt trip on me, I am going to have another nice day regardless, it's just life isn't it, and I am not alone, there are tons of parents just like me trying to do right by our kids, to all the parents out there going through this(((((((((((hugs))))))))) we can do this.
It is not going to be pretty and not going to be easy but he is getting worse by the day in your home sounds like. It is not right that your love and care should be taken advantage of but that is what alcoholism does. It turns your well intented caring and love into enabling. That doesn't make you bad at all. You are still the same loving wonderful mom that put bandaids on all his scrapes and such when he was a kid, but now you have to take a huge gamble and push him out and just pray like hell that he comes back to you a man one day. Doing his laundry, feeding him, and housing him sounds like normal compassionate things to do, especially for your son who is really actually sick...but those things are keeping him sick and letting his alcoholism fester. If he truly is drinking to the point you describe more nights than not, it might be time for you and your husband to consider a rehab for him with a follow up plan for him living in halfway to become independent.
This is just a suggestion and not telling you what you "should do" per say. It's just to let you know there are other options and also this is probably what most of the young people in AA that I know would tell you that they had to go through to get sober. There are no right answers and I am sure he will act like you and your husband are evil devils if you actually follow through with it. You have all my prayers for strength.
A few years ago I went "home" and while I was visiting I went to my old home group, an old sponsee had told me there were quite a few "young people" and when I walked in I was amazed, there were 75? 100? kids from 15 to 25, most in their late teens and early twenties, I attended this meeting a number of times over the next six months, with myself and my brethren swallowed up by these crowds of kids in Sobriety and as I listened to their shares a pattern emerged, most of them had been put in rehab by their parents, they'd come out, stay sober for awhile then relapse, and for some reason the "relapses" almost always went poorly, like train wreck poorly, and it was the stark contrast between the short period of sobriety and the mind numbing pain and the pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization of the relapse that got their attention.
It took many of these kids repeated attempts at sobriety, with 3, 6, and 9 month stretches of abstinence followed by horrific relapses before sobriety stuck, but myself and most of my friends got sober in our early twenties and most have over 20 years of sobriety today, I've watched countless 100's of "young people" get sober and stay that way, and in countless cases it was those rehabs that their parents forced them into that seemed to yield no results that ultimately ruined their drinking
See what happens to an alcoholic after a period of Sobriety, not abstinence, but Sobriety with a Program is that it ruins our drinking, a bellyful of beer and a mind full of AA is a awfully demoralizing experience, not all get/got sober, but in every case it ruined their partying for those I ran into that "went back out", and many made it back
As alcoholics we think we don't have a choice or there is any other option, alcohol doesn't do something -to- us like it does normal people, it does something -for- us, a normal person has a few drinks and feels different, an alcoholic has a few drinks and feels "normal", a normal person drinks too much and feels ill, an alcoholic drinks too much and feels better, fears are lifted that have been carried all our lives with a few drinks in us, we aren't afraid of people or economic insecurity or emotional turmoil, but once we learn there is a solution, alcohol stops working, many return to drinking (I did for a few years and have talked to hundreds that share this experience) but alcohol never "works" the same way again
Ruining an alcoholics drinking and stopping protecting them from the consequences of their actions is the most loving thing anyone can do for an alcoholic, I have been watching my mother provide food and shelter for my sister for 25 years and all I see is my mother murdering her daughter by protecting her from the consequences of her actions, my mother thinks its love, calls it "love", but all I see is two women in my family murdering each other in their disease, both with "good intentions", my sister is once again a practicing addict with the emotional development of a 15 year old...she "relapsed" after 5 years of sobriety, she is stunted emotionally, and truthfully I lay the responsibility for that squarely at the feet of my mother, who would actually bring her bottles of wine from the store and bottles of vodka, because she was an "addict" right, not an alcoholic...sigh....without my mother rescuing and enabling my sister for the last 25 years my sister would have to face the consequences of her actions, the one time she got sober for five years was when she moved away from home and had a bottom my mother couldn't rescue her from, now the irony is all my mothers actions of enabling are fueled by her guilt for being a "bad mom" and she views her enabling as the...answer to that, as the...she thinks she is helping my sister when in fact she is killing her, and creating an environment that my niece is being raised in, thereby ensuring this behavior continues on for future generations....
Being "kind" and protecting an alcoholic from the consequences of their actions isn't "love" although we think it is, it's something different, something harmful, and in many cases, fatal, and then causes more "warped lives of blameless children" who in turn grow up and have more children who have "warped lives of blameless children"
I had far more anger to deal with and much more healing and work to do around the codependents and codependency in my family of origin work (including mine), as in my opinion codependency (mine AND others) caused me and and my family far more harm then the alcoholicism ever did, the alcoholic might be driving the bus, but codependency throws the children under the bus, who in turn grow up to drive more busses and throw others under the bus, my alcoholic father merely neglected me, my codie grandmother and mother harmed me for YEARS with emotional manipulations and mixed messages and...just so much...codependency is a life threatening disease as well IMO, my codependency nearly killed me and brought me more grief, pain, and despair then my alcoholism ever did, and was harder and more confusing to recover from, alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful, but codependency is insidious, it's "The Devil in a Sunday Dress" as Lafayette puts it in Trueblood
Now don't get me wrong, I was more often then nought my mothers instrument of rescue for my sister as I was sober, and I was unable to bring into play everything I had learned about alcoholism and codependency and was unable to properly bring in the required loving detachment and enforcement of boundaries with her as I was with people (men) I had met and sponsored in a program that begins and ends with anonymity, a concept frequently misunderstood but anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our program, which, how to explain, I can't bring the required level of unconditional love that the process of sobriety requires in dealing with family members, that's why we can't don't sponsor our mates or family members, because we can't, we are too enmeshed with them, there is help out there but it's not me when it comes to my family, as a matter of fact me trying is what landed me in Al-anon quite frankly, I got as sick or sicker then they were when I tried
-- Edited by linbaba on Saturday 28th of May 2011 11:14:46 AM
-- Edited by linbaba on Saturday 28th of May 2011 11:30:59 AM
I would add that the young people that I have seen relapse the most after rehab are the ones that move back in with parents and the ones that do not make the transition from rehab into developing a serious program of AA. Rehab is just the start of a life long process of treatment. Lots of young people do get out and think they have been "cured." Those are the "frequent flyers" we refer to who are in an out of rehab 20 times before taking it seriously.
I have to learn to let my son fly the nest, I need lots of help to know what is enabling what is controling and what is love, I know I hold alot of power in my relationship with him, I do not have enough practice under my belt as yet to know all that I need to know, on how to do this. if he didn't live under my roof I would find it a tad easier, I would be able to let go and let god, as it stands we are fighting eachother, he wants the comforts of home, whilst living a life I strongly disaprove of, I don't know at what point you stop trying to control, we have had some terrible consequences of his behaviours, his personality is that of someone with aspergers, although he has never been tested for it, at 20 he's an adult, it's soooooooo hard, thankyou so much for this reply, it's very helpful to me.
At the moment I am throwing myself whole heartedly into mip, and my new face to face, I am listening.
