The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I see the word relapse used a lot. In my thinking, relapse is what happens when you are truly working a program and trying to be straight and sober but something happens to drag you back down. My AH has not been sober mixed with relapses in my opinion - when he is not drinking he is doing so to prove to me that he doesn't have a problem with alcohol. He says he tried AA but it was intent on pounding religion down his throat (an excuse or real, he coulda tried other groups, i know) and has intermittently through the last 7 months blasted me with the usual hatred and anger that tells me he was drinking.
In sober conversations he claims to have not been drinking "much" over the last 7 months and I do not argue the point with him. His latest episode currently has him behaving even more hateful that ever - he is so mad at me for not letting him come home, for making him live in squalor (his choice of housing isn't my fault), for wanting him to pay on his bills now that he's working (how dare I expect him to pay for his toys!) - making threats at night, being civil in the day - its all just the VERY same roller coaster that forces me to kick him out every 5-6 months (last time I didn't let him back which makes him even madder; but the roller coaster hasn't changed). The anger seems worse, but that may be my perception because I'm working hard to remain detached.
It scares me to some extent because his behavior is similar to the behavior of the guy who just killed his wife three blocks away - I made the mistake of saying that I didn't want to end up like her - which really set him off - how dare I compare him to that coward. I don't think i meant it that way - I keep trying to say that I don't want to do this dance with anger anymore - its so horribly destructive.
A couple Sundays ago I invited him out - we spent a purposely platonic night together, then went to the big city to play for a day, it was an ok day, reminding me some of the why's i've hung on this long - anyway, during this episode he's got his teeth in, he is throwing that day back at me in all the negative ways he can find.
The beauty of this board is in seeing that my perception of things - how crazy his behavior has been - is a "normal" for As - its so bizarre to live through.
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
What is disturbing to me is you are describing a torturous and unrewarding relationship and YOU are the one who seems to think its normal and worth holding on to. I am not telling you what to do, but you just quoted how crazy he is while thinking he is normal. What about you?
I am not saying you are crazy, merely that being attached to the alcoholic and his disease is putting insanity into YOUR life.
So, you have some decisons to make and some work to do.
Whatever you choose to do, I just want to tell you that you deserve healthy love, a person that cares about you and does not emotionally abuse you, that is gentle, that compliments your strengths, and someone who is every bit as capable of taking care of himself as you are of yourself.
A relationship with a sick person makes us sick and distorts what WE consider normal. Once you really start paying attention to you, what you want, what you need, and what you deserve in life...you will get better and so will your life.
I'm with you -- I wouldn't call it a relapse unless there was some solid recovery and a program there to begin with. That said, my A never admitted to any relapses, because he never admitted that there was a problem in the first place. He went to AA after some court-ordered rehab, and he started drinking again, and excused it with "My sponsor says relapse is common." But in the next sentence he would say he hadn't been drinking and anyway he didn't need to stop because there wasn't a problem in the first place.
I think it boils down to: they're alcoholics, drinking is what they do.
It sounds like your A's insanity has progressed pretty far along. They do suck us into it too. Pinkchip can be a blunt guy at times but his remark is useful to me because we do get so disoriented that we lose sight of what's normal. Your A has lost all perspective, it sounds. Keep on taking care of yourself.
I don't know what the requirements are to constitute a relapse, but I can share this story. My husband has been sober just over 3 months, he now lives in a sober living place. The person he is today is 100% different than the person he was 4 months ago, different isn't even a strong enough word. My husband was telling me the other day that he and his sponsor were talking about relapse, my husband told his sponsor his story, and asked if all the times he stopped drinking for 2-5 days, then drank again, were relapses or not. At the end of the long conversation, my husband told me that he doesn't consider them relapses because, looking back, comparing then to now, he realizes he never got sober and worked a recovery program in the first place. Not drinking for a number of days is not the same as being sober and working recovery; therefore, not drinking, then drinking, is not a relapse.
I agree with Mattie, it all boils down to they are A, this is what they do without working a strong recovery program. It is not normal behavior, it is addictive behavior, the behavior of a very sick person. Although Pinkchip can be blunt, and it can sometimes be hard to swallow, I agree with Mattie again in that it's useful because it is so easy for us to get enmeshed in the A's sick twisted behaviors that our perceptions of 'normal', become severely distorted and we question everything to the point where we, often times, can't see what's right in front of us, (me, anyway), and the insanity becomes our version of normal.
What I found in the beginning, and to a much lesser degree this still occurs from time to time, is I didn't trust anything, I didn't trust myself, I couldn't make a decision to save my life, I second, triple and quadruple guessed everything... and I was (and am) so grateful for the Alanoners who were there for me, when I could not be there for myself, who, through their experience and sharing were able to help me see things more clearly when my whole world was a fog and I felt like I was living someone else's life.
I agree with Pink, you do deserve all those wonderful things...and it's up to you to get them for yourself.
The other day, I made a list of the qualities I want in a partner. I read over this list again and again and wondered, how come I know I want all these things yet I've never found a partner who can (consistently)provide them? It's hard to swallow but I believe it's because I've never been the healthy version of myself, the person I want to be, and although I was never an addict, I was/am sick in other ways. The common denominator in all my relationships is me. I wanted support and helpfulness, yet I couldn't support myself and found my strength by fixing others. I wanted honestly, yet I couldn't be honest about what I felt I deserved...much less believed, really believed I deserved it. I wanted non judgement, yet I judged every boyfriend who couldn't or wouldn't do this or that for themselves. I wanted compassion, yet I bitched about all their weaknesses behind their backs to my friends and played the victim. Just some food for thought.
I use the word 'relapse' to mean a return to drinking after a period of sober recovery.
In the first year and a half that ABF and I were together, I did wonder if he was truly relapsing or just binge drinking because his relapses were 10 or 11 day binges that were sometimes occurring monthly. When we started seeing each other, he told me that he had been in recovery for 9 years at that point, with two past inpatient rehabs and a 6 month stay in a sober living facility. The first of those marked the beginning of his recovery. He was attending AA but freely admitted that he only did so to placate his (recovering A) father, and stopped going to meetings after his father died.
He was also fond of quoting the statement "Relapse is part of recovery" in his own defence. Which sounded to me as if he was permitting himself relapses within recovery because it was "normal".
My A father on the other hand has never acknowledged that he has a problem with alcohol, or ever used the word "recovery". He is an active drinker but manages to exert sufficient control so that he remained quite functional -- always made it to work the next day, no DUIs. As far as I'm aware (not like he would admit it) his health has not been impacted negatively. I've even seen him stop drinking entirely when he had to take a course of antibiotics because he knew that alcohol would diminish the effect of the medication. Of course, there were restrictions on his life, like not being able to drive anywhere after 7 PM because he knew he was impaired. So, he's not relapsing because he doesn't admit he's an alcoholic -- he's just drinking.
__________________
Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
What WAS worth holding onto was the hope that with enough work in AA he would return to the man I fell in love with - the one I see when I allow myself to close my eyes and remember - I've only been married to him for going on three years and it is really hard to let go of the hope of a return to sanity and love. I first described him to my family as a quiet gentle mannered man - boy howdy he isn't now - but I miss that man, the one I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I never would have married into this insanity if it had presented itself beforehand. I see him now and physically he's the same but not personality wise - and its like he died, the man I love, but his doppleganger lives in his stead. If he died, I could grieve and move on, but this - hoping because he shows signs of improvement, then having the scab ripped away in another insane and mean episode - well, it sucks and sucks the life out of me.
When I say "normal A behavior" I mean, my As behavior is nothing different than everyone elses A's behavior - the blame, lies, anger, its not unique to him and its not my fault regardless of how forcefully he claims it is.
Its hard to let go of the dream though.
Thanks!
Edited to add: I KNOW I'm a good person; I'm happy go lucky, always helping others, quick to jump out of my car to push someone elses out of the intersection; my bosses, friends and family love me and I don't have to try very hard to see the glass as half full and the beauty in not having it all the way full so more can come in! Thing is, when we met, I believed him to be the kind of man I wanted to grow old with, one who would love me and treat me the way I deserve to be treated - we had talks about difficulties and how to work around them, discussed things as grown-ups and talked a lot about what we wanted our future to hold - then he lost his job, started to drink a lot and the bottom fell out of our lives. I don't know who he is anymore and never in a million years would have even spent any time talking to him as he is now.
-- Edited by likemyheart on Saturday 14th of May 2011 11:11:01 PM
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I get you Ilikemyheart. Thanks for clarifying. With me and my Ex-A, I knew what I was getting into cuz I thought I wanted a relationship where my partner was my drinking buddy and it all just went horribly wrong from there. I am not foreign to the whole process and I do empathize. Nobody wants to give up on a marriage and it's admirable to try and work things through. There is a fine line between "through sickness and health" and putting up with unreasonalbe and unacceptable behavior. Only you can figure that out.
When you described your husband losing his job it reminded me of an AA saying: Only an alcoholic will find themselves in a hole and then dig themselves deeper.
I can see how the instinct would be to feel sorry for him but then at some point it does turn toxic....cuz he doesn't make use of your empathy and is only wallowing in problems rather than looking for solutions.
Stay strong and keep building your own support network apart from him.
