"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Couples Behavior Therapy to treat alcoholism....

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Very few things in our recovery are `black & white`, but in my opinion, this one is pretty close to it..... `Couples therapy`, while an alcholic is active, is typically an exercise in futility, and can be really dangerous, depending on whether or not the counsellor has much training in addictions counselling.... the `rules`of counselling change tremendously when addiction is concerned....

Even her `homework assignment`to you raises red flags for me....

Alcoholism may not always be the ONLY issue in marriages,but it typically has to be arrested FIRST, before couples can work on regular communications, etc...

Just my two cents

Tom

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Hi Tom, this is exactly what I believe and what my therapist who has worked for yrs in addictions told me to be aware of. My therapist won't even do marriage counseling for people with active alcoholism or other axis 1 diagnosis.

Searching on the web though, there are studies that say that Couples Therapy is more successful than other treatments. Other studies show Couples Therapy is not effective 2 yrs later (people weren't happier) unless some emotional aspects of counseling were addressed too.

I just don't know who to believe!

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I can believe that if the drinker were just a heavy drinker, rather than a compulsive one, this might have some hope. It does not sound to me as if this is the case in your situation. Sadly, I've found that many therapists are uninformed about alcoholism, even though they say they deal with it. My AH and I went to several therapists, all of whom claimed to understanding drinking problems, and all of whom gave us naive, unhelpful advice. They slowed down my understanding of the problem by quite some time because I thought, "They're the therapist, they must know what they're talking about."

The idea that you can maintain serenity whether he's drinking or not is something that Al-Anon espouses. Some people can do that while they're with the A, some people need physical distance between them. But this therapist is making it sound as if that's the answer to his drinking. If that were the answer to drinking, there'd be no more compulsive drinking in the world.

I think you are wise to be cautious. I'm so sorry you're not getting wiser help from this therapist. Are you going to Al-Anon meetings? There will be much wisdom there. Please take care of yourself.

-- Edited by Mattie on Sunday 27th of March 2011 04:24:07 PM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Chelle, it really doesn't matter if A is an A or not. His behavior is hurting you, making your life not be what you want.

He has to figure his disease out for himself. He is the one who knows.

Did this counselor just tell you not to react emotionally, or did she give you the tools on how to accomplish this? That will help you to determine if she knows anything about counseling

When my A and I went to therapy, he was in AA at the same time. He considered it as part of his being a better person. His dad was horribly abusive. He had no idea how to be a husband. He even had to learn to ask how I was when he got home from work!

How has he met your needs in the past Chelle. No one can meet all our needs. But especially an A cannot. Very few of them know how to meet their own needs.

As far as stopping drinking...that is nothing. Its only a symptom of the disease. A's need a program of recovery. They learn the skills that make them as comfortable as possibly with out drinking. They learn to love the person they can be. They may learn more compassion, not to lie, not to manipulate, to eat healthy etc.

In my experience when the A is serious about going into recovery, they have to do it on their own, they search out what they really need.

Nothing you do will make them start or stop using. Nothing. It is his illness not yours.

So there is another view! love,debilyn

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

I am with Tom on this one , an active drinker just dosent think clearly and agree if therapist is not familiar with alcoholism a total waste of time , not too many alcoholics see reality and can admit they drink too much so of course he dosent think he has a problem . Our detachment pamphlet gives us several ways to learn How to not react to the alcoholics drinking his moods do not have to run your life , he is only doing what works for him and the facts are that alcoholics drink .. dont need a reason its just what they do . Keep going to meetings read all you can on detachment with love find a page you can work and life will get easier . In our program it really dosent matter how often or how much he drinks what matters is how it affects you when he does .that we can help you with . Louise

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry, I asked if you were going to Al-Anon meetings and you'd already said you were active in them. My apologies! I'm glad you have that back-up. I wish more therapists knew more about Al-Anon principles.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

This sounds like a therapist who is not willing to refer despite clear evidence that couples therapy with an active alcoholic is not going to yield positive results. It would be nice if all therapists followed protocols and consistent guidelines, but they don't. Some just want to get paid and they can write notes and justify treatment regardless.

Yeah...it is true that if you could somehow teach yourself to not care about being verbally abused and to not care about his destructive drinking you might be less unhappy in the marriage. People can somehow manage to convince themselves of all sorts of things. Is learning to live with this what you want though?

Clearly this is a biased therapist anyhow because it was his therapist to begin with. Why not try a new one altogether for couples counseling?

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Hi all, hopefully the verbal abuse is over. I had never seen it before the breakdown and haven't seen it in 3 weeks. It's like he was a different person.

I was hoping I was mistaken about this type of therapy, but it sounds like my instincts are right.

freeagain · Veteran Member

Couples therapy didn't help "cure" my H's cancer. Not sure how it could have worked on his disease of alcoholism.

And it did actually help my AH to abuse and neglect me more. Because then he had new and better ways with fancier terms to abuse me with....it was very bad.

We had one therpist who told me to "stand there and take it" when my ex started raging at me so that he didn't "feel abandonded". I tried that and my ex beat the snot out of me. We had another therpist who told me that I should pay more attention to my AH and make him dinner more so that he could "see" that I loved him. Yeah, tried that and my AH didn't show up for dinner because he was out drinking and having affairs.

It's honestly funny to me to look back and see all the really insane things that therapists who had NO personal or wrking knowledge of the disease advised me to try.

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Hugs to you Freeagain, no one should have to go through that, it's like therapist supported abuse.

It's an awful feeling not to be supported by a therapist when you know your right. It makes you feel like you're doubting reality, which is what alcoholics can also do too.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi All

I am a bit confused over this posting

Neither Alanon nor AA l encourages us to label any one who we feel is an alcoholic It is up to the individual discover that for themselves. The therapist in question is doing the same.

In reading what the therapist is suggesting, I find nothing that conflicts with the alanon message and the alanon program. She is saying that an attitude change can aid recovery Our literature also states "Changed attitudes aid recovery" There are several excerpts in the ODAT and Courage to change that suggest minding our side of the street, allowing the A to determine his condition and seeking help. We are directed to neither force a solution in a crisis nor prevent one from happening.

Alanon tools of detachment, let go and let god, the steps sponsership are all efforts to change our "Reactions" to this disease. The Therapist simply stated the assignment was to not react to his drinking A difficult task without alanon but doable with program.

Try spending time together and using alanon tools not to react and see how this works . Take the actions let go of the results

Take what you like and leave the rest

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

Chelle3 wrote:
even if your A didn't quit drinking, could you live with it peacefully as long as he met your needs? Did anyone have success with this method and their A quit drinking?

In my experience, an active alcoholic is incapable of meeting anyone's needs, including his or her own.

I have never heard of that kind of counseling, but it does not sound logically like it would work. It appears that the therapist is putting responsibility on YOU for his drinking - like, if you act this way, he will drink. IMO, this is not true. Alcoholics drink because they drink. That's what they do. They don't need a reason. Just like there is nothing we can do to get them to stop drinking (if we could, there would be no alcoholism and no need for Alanon either), there is nothing we can do to MAKE them drink. If your AH wants to stay sober, he will stay sober regardless of your actions.

freeagain · Veteran Member

I agree with you to a point Hotrod. But Alanon also encourages me to NOT live in denile about the disease of alcohlism, nor to enable the A which can sometimes include not reacting to abuse or unacceptable behaviors.

I use this program to help me to not create a crisis and to not inflict pain and negativity onto the A in my life. It has taught me how I do contribute to the disease but also how I can stand up for myself and state my boundries clearly.

I don't care to lable any A's. All I need to know is that someone else's drinking and drugging is effecting me. This program is all about me. Marriage counseling is about two people equally and to ignore the elephant in the room can actually harm the rest of the people in the room. It is dangerous. To pretend that alcohol is not an issue won't help anyone in an alcoholic marriage.

ythannah · Senior Member

Chelle3 wrote:
She said as long as I emotionally disliked his drinking he would feel it and would be more likely to drink.
In order for the AH to stop drinking, the right atmosphere must be created in the home. She expressed no need for A to decrease or quit drinking.

These statements really jumped out at me, and I find them a bit disturbing.

Unless I am misreading and misunderstanding, there is an implication that your attitude towards his drinking causes it, or at least contributes to it, which is completely false. Your thoughts, feelings and behaviour do contribute to your own serenity, however. And certainly a negative emotional reaction to drinking does nothing to prevent it from happening again, which is why "don't react" is a valuable tool -- for YOU.

There is also an implication that there is an onus on you to create this "right atmosphere" which will somehow magically stop his drinking. If only it were that easy! Even in a perfectly harmonious home, alcoholics will simply find another excuse to drink -- it rained all day, I hate my job, an old acquaintance snubbed me (all have been used by my ABF).

I'm with the others who have said that couples counselling has minimal chance of success if it doesn't address a major issue in the relationship, which is that his drinking (whether or not we label that "alcoholism") is affecting you.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

What a great post and responses!! My reply from my experience including being a family and couples counselor is go get a second opinion and do your research on the disease. Just a part of my training and education came from early Al-Anon where we use to read the definition of Alcoholism at the opening of the meetings and more. Counselors a people some are better informed and experienced than others. Often they speak their minds and more often still their minds should be kept in the box it came in.

Do more what you are doing now...asking for help. (((((hugs)))))

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Chelle,

Sounds very similar to an experience with couple's therapy I had. Although couple's behavioral therapy did nothing to stop my exah's progression of the disease the process did offer benefits in both of our attitudes and treatment of each other. Obviously by saying exah I can not say the treatment was a raving success according to most people's expectations. But I can say that had I not had that experience my whole situation would have been much worse in every possible way.

Jen

linbaba · Veteran Member

I went to therapy once to "fix" my partner and get her to see things my way...was a dismal failure, excruciating actually, over the years I learned for me any "program" of recovery or therapy that relied on taking someone else's inventory and was reliant on changing the other person was a dismal failure, I learned the 12 steps and therapy and couples counseling were there for me to change myself, that me trying to change other people was the root of my own delusion, I'd sit there and blame and finger point again and again and again and smugly say "doing the same thing over and over is insanity" not realizing I was also doing the same thing over and over, getting angry at this person for being themself, that I was the one going crazy

I had to learn the three C's, I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, and I CERTAINLY can't control it (the root of my problem was actually trying to control other people) and I had to learn what the serenity prayer meant for me

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (other people)
The courage to change the things I can (myself)
and the wisdom to know the difference

One of the the things I have learned about recovery is "telling" someone what is wrong with them seldom if never works, they just don't believe it, but Socratic questioning works wonders, or it did for me, once I tried everything else and I found I kept painting myself in the corner and it was me with a paintbrush in my hand I started paying attention, I started learning about boundaries and how they differ from behavior modification, in that my boundary wasn't "you need to quit drinking" but "what do I do if this person keeps drinking"

I had to learn to ask myself "Can I have this person in my life EXACTLY the way they are?" because...that is the way they are or do I need to take some distance to protect myself, in my case I had to take the distance, I had to learn how to shift the focus on myself and learn that my "problem" might have "your name" on it but my "solution" had to have MY name on it, to wit; I had to be the one that changed because if nothing changes nothing changes, and sitting around waiting for this other person to change, trying to make this other person change, to see me, to see the impact of her actions on me was what was driving me crazy, I had to learn me standing there stating my boundaries over and over and over again wasn't in fact healthy or recovery, but simply me going insane, that I was the one who had to take action

God knows there seems to be an incredibly high incompetence rate among therapists but in some cases I actually learned I was wrong about them, of course I didn't agree with what they were doing because what I was doing wasn't working, and by following the path laid out by them one of two things happened, 1) yes, I found out they were hopelessly and laughably incompetent, not qualified to sell me a big mac or 2) wow, I didn't see THAT result coming, but I had to wait and give them a minute to work their mojo

One example of this was the first couples counselor I went to was familiar with both me and my GF, she said, "A*****, you two need to have your own place, have your own car, and separate your money" Now I had moved in with her, sold my car so we were like siamese twins, we had lived together for a few years and we were joined at the hip, and I thought it was incredibly unfair that I had to move out and buy a car...but I was open to suggestion so I took hers, and although it seemed her suggestions were "against" me, I learned pretty quickly they were to protect me, I got my place, bought my car, my gf HATED my place, hated my car, and funniest yet at the end of the month my gf came up to me and needed to borrow money to pay her rent

She used me living with her to control me, and us only having one car to keep tabs on where I was, she HATED my car and my little beach chalet, and funniest yet, I was supposedly the financially unstable one, with her being the ultra responsible one, the truth was she was way over her head in credit card debt, so we lived on my money and at the end of every month I had to scramble to pay my bills while she yelled at me for being irresponsible, I got to be the "designated patient", but once we separated finances it became apparent all her money went to her credit card debts so she'd spend all my money all the while yelling at me for being irresponsible, but lo and behold in one month not only was I able to put first and last on a new place, put a down payment on a car, but was STILL able to loan her 500 bux

So this thing, i found so threatening to me was actually there to protect me, so I learned to try new things suggested by people that might know a thing or two, I learned that therapy and recovery were sometimes like dealing with boot camp, not the buttchew, but someone I didn't like telling me to do things I didn't want to do in order to keep me alive after I left, and another thing I learned that if I went "answer shopping" to other people suffering from the same mental make up as me they'd give me the answers I wanted to hear, it wasn't that great minds think alike, it was sick minds think alike, and since they were in the same boat as me, by following their advice I'd get what they got, which is the same thing I had....a truly messed up situation, that to get different results I had to try different things, now true, they all didn't work but I didn't know until I tried

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Thanks Hotrod and Linbaba, you gave a different perspective. I know all the rules of detaching, but when AH promised me he would work on himself and eventually quit drinking so that I would re-enter the marriage, it prompted me to have hope in this therapist that she would work on what I saw as the root of the problem: drinking.

Her insistence that no one had diagnosed him as alcoholic except me and that I needed to emotionally remove my reactions (which were emotional only, I rarely discuss his drinking with him and never tell him to stop anymore) from the drinking hit hard. I guess I wanted my opinion validated.

I was scared, scared that no one was hearing me and that I was putting myself in a position to be hurt again. I didn't believe my husband could focus on our marriage and spending time together until the alcohol was gone. Drinking and staying up late to get enough in takes all his energy. There's not any left to spend time with me or to focus on us or to develop different coping mechanisms.

Maybe the therapist will see if he's not able to fulfill his assignment that the alcohol is playing a part. Maybe she will in turn get him to see that too.

The next day I meditated on the way home from work. I decided to take one day at a time even though I had little hope for the future. I don't know how the future will work but I can see the positive in today, and there were positives to see, even in my hubby. I released the hurt, the fear and the anger and replaced it with peace and acceptance.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

I keep coming back to this topic, re-reading it all and wanting to say something, then changing my mind - then re-reading and... ha, cycle with me anyone?

Things I want to add are, I think the least a good therapist owes both partners in a couple trying to work things out is equal time getting to know the parties involved. My AH's version of events differs greatly from mine and I am sure his AA group is sympathetically on his side because they only KNOW his side. To him, I'm a mean vindictive b-word who never lets her anger go. But they haven't been witness to all the h-word I've been through - they have never seen him standing over me screaming at me - he puts on a very good hurt victim act. (and I know that from his point of view, he IS the hurt victim, because he can't see anything but his view).

The other thing is this, how do you separate your emotions from the alcohol use when the alcohol use causes screaming, verbally abusive behaviour that intentionally tries to cause as much emotional damage as possible using only words as a weapon? I could live with a man that drank more than I thought he should, if it didn't always lead to the hateful scenes that have me screaming back trying to defend myself or crying in a ball repeating over and over to myself, "just stop, please just stop, just stop, please stop"?

Of course, in my situation, the only way to detach from him and end the abuse was to not live with him any more.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi All

I too have many thoughts running thru my mind regarding this topic You see, although I was able to see a different point of view as to what the therapist was asking I failed to note that my one attempt at couples counseling with my A husband was also with his therapist. I went for one session and felt like I was not supported and that she leaned toward his version of events and that I was a second class citizen

I told both of them that I was tired of being the supporting actor/actress in his life's play and wanted a partner with whom I could feel mutual support.

I was not getting this from HIS Therapy and I never returned.He stayed and regained a happy sobriety and I fled to al anon. Al anon gave me the tools to detach, find myself, validate my needs in a constructive fashion and learn to take care of myself without destroying anyone else What a powerful program it is.

I believe it is true that couples therapy with a none recovered alcoholic is a waste. That even with al anon recovery under my belt I still believe I would have refused to participate with his"couples" therapy

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I've done my share of couples therapy with people who wanted to blame and shame and manipulate me. That is a pretty difficult task. At the same time I think one of my core issues is wanting things to be functional when they clearly are not. Learning how to live in a dysfunctional, unfair world is a very difficult task. Nevertheless to keep waiting for it to get to fair, to keep wanting people to change is equally difficult.

I have always been idealistic. I have always been waiting and craving for a family that is functional. The trouble is that I always go to people who are completely incapable of meeting any of my needs at all.

Living in reality is hard for any of us. I lived, ate and breathed a life of trying to "fix" people who were clearly not willing to be fixed. The dance of fixing often involves lots of third parties. I've been there and done that with therapists. Most of the time I foamed at the mouth in frustration. Most of the time I simply could not believe or cope with the reality of the situaiton.

As a child I could not cope with the reality of growing up in poverty with mentally ill parents. My whole life was about running from that, reacting to that. As I grow with a program, reality doesn't overwhelm me in the same way. I get clearer and clearer on who I can count on. I stop waiting, hoping, craving for others to change. I'm always the one who has to change. Over reacting to an alcoholic is the norm. Under reacting to them was also the norm. Having boundaries, setting limits, getting a perspective doesn't come overnight. In al anon for some of us it does come but its often at a price. I don't like reality but I don't like denial either.

Maresie.

linbaba · Veteran Member

decidely an incredibly interesting thread, I am learning a lot

One thing I can state categorically is it's easy to hoodwink an incompetent therapist, I know because I did so when I was young, from 15 to 27 I was completely out of my gourd Hunter s Thompson stark raving mad, and the court system sent me to a bunch of therapists, and these poor ignorant fools never had a chance, they didn't know what the hell to make of me, and I left every session LMAO, until I met one that was waiting for me at the end of every road, was waiting for me at the end of every web of deceipt, the one that had my number, he actually got my attention and my drinking days were numbered after I met him, it took a few years, but i heard him, and every time I had a hang-over, every time somebody gave me "the look", I remembered his words

So when I got sober my girlfriend drug me to couples counseling with her stepmother actually who was a therapist, who was frankly incredibly fair, I walked out of there with tools, I felt optimistic, but she told my girlfriend she also played a part, that she too had things to change, 3 sessions later Gf decided that this woman wasn't "on her side" enough, because I was obviously the "bad guy", I was obviously the one that was all messed up, and the therapist wasn't validating her, but saying there was 2 of us that needed to change our behavior, so we went to another therapist, she too was obviously messed up because she felt both of us needed to change, that we both played a part, so we tried a third, same thing. at this point I had been sober a few years I think by the time this ran out, and she was angrier then ever.

thus ended the "couples counseling experiment", my GF couldn't find a therapist to validate her by saying I was the "wrong" and "bad" one and that it wasn't all my fault she felt this way, so therapy went buh bye, shortly thereafter so did she, she found a nice married man with the white picket fence and the 1.5 kids, shame about his wife.......

I watched this same dynamic happen to sponsee after sponsee soon after they got sober over the years, the sig other would drag him to therapy, who'd say "here's some tools for you Johnny" and johnny would be STOKED, she'd point out things he did wrong, and things he could do differently and he would be ecstatic, then she's say, "Ok Mary, here's a mirror for you, lets look at the role you play and how you can change it" and mary would lose her mind, time for a new therapist, this one doesn't know what she's talking about, she's obviously incompetent, next one, same thing, time for a new therapist, thus ended the therapy experiment, I saw this so many times it became a cliche, a joke, it was like watching the same script over and over, it became commonplace, it wasn't that the therapists were on the side of the alcoholic, it was the therapist was fair and unbiased, but didn't suscribe to the view that it was all the alcoholics fault she felt the way she did, in all fairness many of the therapists out there are as ignorant of codependency as they are of alcoholism, so sometimes the poor couple ends up sitting there basically getting the wrong prescription for life, truthfully for me, the only people I have seen competent in these areas have addressed it themselves and have a few decades of recovery under their belt, it's like the other ones...are like men giving women advice about how to give birth, ignorant, wrong and condescending, and usually unable to implement any of this stuff in their own lives, this is just an opinion though

so anyhow, fast forward to ten years later and now I'm dating an alcoholic, so she drags me to her therapist she's seen for years

it was awesome, I had to take a deep breath, I had fear, but this woman WAS on my girlfriends side, and that was OK with me, because I loved her, but what it also meant was my GF TRUSTED this therapist, so when the therapist hit me between the eyes with the 2x4 of love, I tooka deep breath and sat, was quiet, and learned, and I learned a LOT, and when she hit my GF with the 2x4 she'd cry, sit, and it took about 3 days, but then she'd process it, she'd own it, and she CHANGED, she literally changed ...like...a lot, like some deep rooted childhood stuff, and we learned how to communicate there, we learned we could have 2 different versions of the same event, and both be right, because it was our experience, just because we disagreed on "what happened" didn't make one of us wrong, it made us have different experiences, and we learned how to say, "OK, what was your experience?" and then listen, and validate the experience, and "mirror" and use fighting fair techniques, and then I could tell my version and get the same respect

Going to a good therapist with a partner that will walk with me through this stuff is an AMAZING experience, I have something similar going on now and it takes my breath away.

I think at the end of the day, my experience is if the the therapist is GOOD, I mean really GOOD, it didn't matter who went first, it didn't matter who's side she was on, if she was GOOD, and for me impossible to BS, it's like being 3 years old with chocolate on my face with one hand in the cookie jar trying to say "what cookies?" good therapists see through me that easy no matter WHO's side they are on, and if the therapist is incompetent, it doesn't matter, because truth be told the incompetent therapists I came across couldn't find their own butt with two hands and a map

I just learned to sit tight for a minute and not leave just because every therapist I went to didn't validate every single view I had and do everything the way I did, because if they did....they'd be the one going to therapy, not me, and the truth will out pretty quickly, it becomes apparent if a therapist is competent within a few weeks in my experience, sometimes they are like good sponsors, they seem all nice then BLAM, you are done hoisted on your own petard left breathless going ow ow ow she seemed so nice....I like people who tell me the truth, but I'm rare that way

As these things usually happen to me when I get smug and superior about something, nearly two decades later I got to walk in my first "x's" shoes, and I understand her anger a lot better now, by the time I washed up in al-anon I had a complete and utter inability to talk about myself, I could give you hours and hours of the wroong doings of others, but I didn't know how I felt, ...except....angry....bitter....hostile....and nothing anyone said helped, until I was DONE...months after I left these people were all I could talk about...

So I did leave, took me a year before my eyeballs stopped spinning in my head, and maybe 2 more years before I started approaching normal, codependency was the most difficult thing I have ever had to face

because I thought my codependency was someone else's fault

and that truly made me "powerless", how can you change someone else? talk about feeling helpless....all i did was keep drinking the poison and wishing they'd die, all the anger and bile and venom I felt was killing me, not them, until I started losing friendships, heck I lost my entire life in my codependent bottom, I mean literally, I put my trust in a practicing alcoholic and lost my life savings, my friends, my company I built, my girl, I was ANGRY

So I learned I can't change anyone else, all I could change was me, thus began my journey, that was my lightbulb moment, all that blame, controlling and hostility was a monumental waste of my life, life that would be better spent being enjoyed

I learned that if I want to get drunk, I go to a bar

If I want to get sober I go to AA

If my life is affected by someone else's drinking, I go to al-anon

to learn about my codependency, I study Coda and books about codepedency

at couples counseling I go to learn about how I can be different in the relationship, how to do things differently, I don't go to couples counseling to learn how to change my partner, to try to get my partner to change, or to get my partner sober, I don't go to couples counseling to try to convince the therapist to see my point of view, I didn't go to therapy to try to get the therapist on my side, I go to couples counseling to try and learn her point of view, because I know what my point of view got me, a seat in a few 12 step programs, I go to therapy so I can learn new tools

going to couples counseling to change my significant other or to get my SO sober would be like going to a hardware store for bread, something I have far too much experience with in other areas of my life, because the first thing I learned in Al-anon is the the three "C's", I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, and I can't control it, and taking my "A" to therapy to change her is just another form of trying to control her, and that has ALWAYS left me bitter and angry....because it just doesn't ever go my way

-- Edited by linbaba on Tuesday 29th of March 2011 03:37:24 AM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"