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AH often helps me get our children to and from their various activities. There is one activity where I really need him to drive our DS.
How do I enforce a boundary that he may not drive with the children in the car if he has been drinking? I don't want to turn our children into police by telling them they can't ride with Dad if they see or smell alcohol. And quite honestly, I don't always know if AH has been drinking.
Any thoughts on how others have handled this situation?
If no, the answer for me , is "Never". With the alcoholic for 26 years and there were many times, I couldnt tell if he was drinking. I never let him drive me anywhere.
The boundaries are for you to make, but where you try to enforce no drinking, you will become frustrated it wont happen unless he is willing to enter a program and even then its not a overnite process. Then it becomes our denial of the problem.
I invite you to stick with the board of Alanon, read the experiences of the people who are going thru the same situation.
The sad truth is that the insanity of alcoholism has distorted their judgment to the point where they don't know how the alcohol affects them. I've seen my A so drunk he could hardly stand up, while claiming loudly, "You're just obsessed! I haven't had a drink in months! You need to get your head examined!" Any sane person would know his drunkenness would be obvious to absolutely anyone. But when they're in denial to themselves, they're in denial to everything. That's why people drive drunk. They actually think they're competent to drive. They never believe anything bad will happen.
So this means that they don't know enough not to take their kids in the car when they've been drinking. They will think they're fine. It's simply never safe for a drinker to drive children anywhere. Even if they're sober when they leave, they may not be sober by the time they get there. And even if they have honest intentions not to drink and drive, the alcoholism has distorted their judgment to the point that they can't keep themselves from doing it.
I had to just pretend my AH was on the other side of the world, or anywhere nowhere nearby, so I didn't rely on him to drive our son anywhere. Single parents do it. It's infuriating that parents married to alcoholics have to do it. But we're the only ones who can keep our children safe. No matter how much they may mean to, alcoholics can't judge when it's safe for them to drink and drive. If they could follow instructions and do what's best for them and their families, they wouldn't be alcoholics in the first place.
Our county leads the nation in DUI arrests (only the ones they catch) and I've done service in and for DUI classes. They know the language and the rules...They know but they're gonna drive from point A to the next point. No one is safe...inside the vehicle or outside the vehicle when the driver is under the influence. There are no classes that teach a person to drive drunk...No car is manufactured to be able to be driven by a drunk and a drunk driver is a drunk everything.
It is not practical to be anywhere inside or outside of a car when the driver is drunk.
Don't_______, Drunk. Every DUI class I've assisted in knew what went in the blank space.
You dont mention how old your children are , if older alert them to the fact that they should never get in the car if they think dad is drinking , for me the answer is never allow a practicing alcoholic to drive our most precious gifts if you suspect they are drinking , learn to trust what your seeing and go with your gut . Most alcoholics dont think they have had too much to drink and rarley do they admit that they have .
Until my AH had a chunk of sobriety, I found that for me, I had to make the assumption that he had been consuming alcohol and make other arrangements for either my children or myself. I found that it was not possible for me to be the "are you sober" police. I did not want to have to rationalize to myself about whether he was just a little buzzed and okay to drive, and I did not want to carry guilt and fear after I'd let my kids in the car with him about whether they would get hurt because I didn't protect them. Not to mention, I was never the best judge of whether he'd been drinking or was drunk.
For me, the boundary was simple. Until there was a chunk of sobriety, the kids and I did not go with him. There were ways of making arrangements for alternative transportation. If we had no alternative transportation, we simply didn't go. This was a matter of life and death to me.
As far as asking the kids to determine whether their dad has been drinking - in my opinion, that is too much responsibility for a child and sends the message that it is the passenger's responsibility to react to alcohol. In my opinion, it is better to make a decision on behalf of the children so as not to put them in the position of having to make a judgment call. If my 9 year old tried to find out whether my exAH had been drinking, my ex would likely promise my son that he was fine and swear up and down he hadn't been drinking, and my son would get in the car so he didn't make his dad mad. I don't feel this would be particularly effective. Just my .02.
-- Edited by White Rabbit on Thursday 13th of January 2011 09:21:49 PM
I'd have to ask myself how I can do that. In order to make sure he wasn't drinking when picking up the kids, that would mean I'd have to follow him around, making sure he hasn't drank and then watch the kids get in the car with him and then follow him home to make sure he doesn't stop anywhere to get a drink on the way home.
Doesn't sound practical in the least.
What I can do is educate the kids on how to tell if dad's been drinking. Ask them to not get into the car if they think he's been drinking - tell them who to call for a ride if dad's drunk.
Either that, or I can arrange for alternative transportation for the kids. Ask another parent I trust for their help, or a friend, etc.
I can certainly tell the A that it's unacceptable if he drives the kids while drunk, however I know he's going to do it anyhow, so all I'm doing is setting him up to be scolded by me, and in the meantime, it's done no good whatsoever. It would stress me out, stress him out and put the kids in danger.
It's been my observation that alcoholics who drive drunk are alcoholics who drive drunk. This means this is what they do and they will continue to do it until they hit bottom and then seek recovery - provided that their bottom isn't their death.
As I carefully consider my boundaries and how to enforce them, I realized I don't have to look at complicated things--the things that seem as big as Mt. Everest. I can look at the very simple and very dangerous fact that my AH drives the kids after he has been drinking.
I don't let my inlaws drive the kids when they are drinking. In fact, I rarely let the kids ride with them because I know alcohol is such a part of their lives. Why do I let the children into the car with my AH?
My AH isn't in any treatment or program. Our children are in the pre-teen age range--the age where they are involved in everything and have to be driven everywhere. I can explain to them not to get into a car with anyone who has been drinking. They are probably at the age, and have had enough exposure to drinking , they can recognize the signs.
I guess this is my next step out of denial.
So, how do I confront my AH about not driving the kids anymore?
-- Edited by Very Very Tired on Thursday 13th of January 2011 10:54:54 PM
Hello! WHen my AH got progressed downward rapidly, the first time I caught him driving drunk with my daughter in the car I set the following boundary: You cannot ever drive with her in the car ever again...AND when I'm not home, my daughter will be with my parents, never alone with you as I cannot trust you. period. I've enforced it consistently.
Sure, at first - it's hard cause you have adjusting to do... You become accustomed to them helping out with driving around to activities ect...but, I learn't that hey, I can do all this on my own, just have to get into the habit of it all and make it work. I learn't to rely on only myself. No one else.
I don't have the magic answer, because as can be seen with all these responses, there isn't one. I can relate to your angst though and wanted to let you know that.
You asked how do you "confront" the A about your boundary and I recognized a lot of me in that statement. Up until about 6 months ago, I had the feeling of confrontation with everything I said to my A. That means I've had over 10 yrs of confrontation experience. For me, I realized that I held some pivotally opposite positions and opinions to my A and most often felt like I had to "defend" my position in almost every interaction with him. I felt like I always had to "justify" having an opinion. I would gather information and supporting people and documents to support my case. I would "prove" how right I was and how wrong he was.
Recently I've come to understand that I am perfectly okay to have a position, to own it, to speak it, to live it and whether or not the A agrees with it is irrelevant. It has been a lesson in learning to trust MYSELF. That I can just be ME without having to prove anything.
In regard to this issue, I have applied the same knowledge, that I am a smart, dedicated, competent parent and I DO know what is best for my child. As the custodial parent I make all the decisions. Most of which exA doesn't agree and that is okay. My decisions are not confrontations anymore, they are just decisions.
You know what is best for you and your children. If you are like most of us, we are so used to trying to make the A happy, that this becomes the guiding principle in our decisions, not making a sound decision in response to a specific situation. I have learned how to remove the "making the A happy" part out of my decision making process. I believe this has made be better at solving problems and responding to situations. After all, happiness is an inside job, and it's up to the A himself. Just like mine is.
, they can recognize the signs.