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Hi everyone, This is my first time here, or on any recovery messageboard. I have been with my husband for more than 10 years, married for 8.5. We have two beautiful boys. I knew he was an alcoholic when I married him, but we were so young - I thought it would just naturally improve. Silly me. Long story short, it didn't. He had 3.5 years sober at one point, then a major slip, then periods of months sober, then another longer period of a year and a half. Now he has three months. I am the most forgiving person you will ever meet. The issue I am having now is that I fear any more forgiveness will harm or kill our children. The big slip he had a few years back happened when I was out of town - they always do. The problem with this one is that he was taking care of our youngest, who was only a year and a half old at the time. He took a day off of work, got hammered all day, then picked him up at daycare (vodka, so nothing on his breath to tip off our provider at the time). He proceeded to drive our son 15 minutes on a busy road to a friend's BBQ. The friend was concerned, so called my in laws (who came and picked up my son) and eventually me. My older son and I, who were having what was supposed to be a fun "mommy-son" trip, caught the first flight back the next morning, and we went through our typical cycle of crisis-sadness-anger-"repair," in which nothing ever really gets fixed, and in which I continue to work (see, it's my responsibility to be the steady spouse who maintains jobs while he skips around from career to career looking for one that doesn't bore him), take care of the kids, house and finances, and maintain my cheerleader disposition. After that event, my husband started going to AA again, found a sponsor for the first time, and I truly believed that was it. Flash forward two years - I was on a work trip this past October and found out that not only did my husband slip, but a) he did so while driving the boys on the highway and b) later proceeded to leave them alone (sleeping) in the house for an hour while he went to an AA meeting a few blocks away. They were 3 and 5 at the time. Can you imagine what could have happened??? After this crisis, I asked him to leave for the first time ever. He went to a sober house, started counseling and came home. He hasn't been going to meetings and has since dropped counseling, b/c it simply "doesn't work" for him. He hasn't had a drink, but he also isn't doing anything different than any other time and I can't get past it. I am so lost. I don't trust him, don't enjoy my time with him b/c I'm so angry over all the residual damage he's done, can't feel intimate with him. He says he's remorseful, but he doesn't initiate communication with me and seems to feel that I should just get over it. It's a typical story, but true - he is a wonderful father...when he is sober. But he has now proven to me twice (probably more that I don't know about) that he cannot be trusted to care for our children for even one night when I leave town. I am trapped. If I stay with him, I'm married to someone I don't trust. If I divorce him, I'll live in fear that he'll drink again and something truly horrible will happen while my kids are on visitation with him. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I'm so lost. Please help if you have any words of advice. -Holly
Holly, I'm so sorry you're going through this. But so glad you're so determined to protect your children. You're in the right place here.
I hope you can get to some Al-Anon meetings in your town. Try a number (they usually say six) so you can find the one that's right for you, because they're all different. Living with an alcoholic pulls us deeply into the insanity too, so much so that we often don't see how our behavior and judgment is affected. Al-Anon helps us get clarity and serenity.
I was in a situation very much like yours. My AH (Alcoholic Husband) had periods in recovery, then he'd relapse, then he'd be in recovery again, then I'd find out he'd been secretly drinking for months ... and so on. At one point he left our two-year-old son alone (I never found out why, but I suspect he was going out to buy alcohol, because I ran into him -- alone -- at the store, when he was supposed to be at home with our son). He never acknowledged that anything was wrong with that ("See! He was fine! He's not dead or anything!" -- insanity.) After another bout of recovery and promises, he relapsed and left our son even more dangerously alone (in a room on a high floor with a ground level window -- wide open). When I found out about that was the moment I knew I could not continue to stay with him. It was like babysitting two small children instead of one, except one of them was in his 40s and belligerent.
The first thing I did was to ask around until I had the name of a good divorce lawyer. He and I discussed the options. In my case it turned out to be easy, and I wish all cases ended up as well as mine. I asked my AH to move out, which he did without protest. I think he'd seen the writing on the wall, plus I think he was relieved that he'd get to drink without having to hide it or endure nagging. He was never violent and only rarely hostile, so I've always felt safe in his presence. So I said he could come over and see our son every Sunday afternoon. He was fine with that. He knows he could never cope with taking care of a kid 24/7, even for a day. Even apart from the drinking, he's just not that organized and doesn't want to be responsible -- he wants to do his own thing. So the once-a-week arrangement was fine by him.
My lawyer told me that the courts would be almost sure to continue the arrangement that the child was used to. Thus if we had that schedule of visitation for a year, that's the way they would write it into the settlement. Fortunately my ex is not a combative man and that's always been fine by him. My lawyer said that even if he had challenged it, the longstandingness of the arrangements would probably make it continue that way.
So that's how we do it, adjustable as needed. He also comes over and puts our son to bed Tuesday nights. This is possible because he doesn't turn up visibly drunk (if so I would calmly send him away, and he knows it), and because he and I get along well enough for me to endure seeing him once a week. He also takes our son to a pizza place a block from our house, on foot. It helps also that our son is old enough that I know he can cross streets on his own, etc., if the ex should get drunk at the pizza place! (This has never happened but still I want to take every precaution.) We separated when our son was two and he is now nine. I now also let our son go over to my ex's place (which is two blocks away) with him for the afternoon. The ex may be drinking during these afternoons, but he has never come back visibly drunk, so with that proviso I've decided it's okay.
I hope that helps. I think a lawyer is the best person to consult about what possible arrangements might be and how to protect your children in custody agreements. Hugs to you. Keep coming back and checking in -- there's much wisdom on these boards.
-- Edited by Mattie on Sunday 9th of January 2011 11:09:53 AM
-- Edited by Mattie on Sunday 9th of January 2011 11:13:32 AM
Never had children with the XAH, but he still couldnt be trusted.
Glad that you have turned to Alanon. You have taken an important step. For you and your children. One of the biggest problems of this disease is the denial on the Alcoholics part and on ours. We want to believe that it will be different this time, but until they decide to stop and enter their own program, it will just get progressively worse.
You cant control him, as we are powerless over the drinking and the actions of the A.
You can however get educated on the disease of alcoholism, attend face to face meetings in your community, read all you can that Alanon has to offer you. Decide what solutions and boundaries are best for you.
Thank you so much for the post. It means the world to know that someone else out there has gone through what I am going through and come out okay on the other side.
The thing that is hardest for me is still loving him so much and having this foolish hope deep in my heart (my mind gave up long ago) that this really will be "it" and that we can find away to keep our little family intact.
Divorce feels wrong, but so does staying together. The boys worship the ground he walks on; they're devastated when he comes home late from work one night and misses bedtime - I can't imagine how they'd react if he didn't live with us at all.
Part of me thinks, "Okay, I can do this - I'll just never, ever go out of town without the kids, even for a night." Nothing has ever happened when he's been with them during the day; me packing an overnight bag seems to be the trigger that releases his irresponsible demons. Then another part thinks, "That stinks. I'll have to give up a job I adore simply because it requires travel a couple times a year and I can never go on a girls' weekend or visit my grandmother without also flying my two kids down." Then again, even if I do leave him, I'll have to worry about who will stay with the kids when/if I leave.
I know I sound like a whiner, but I just wish we had "normal" worries, like money and jobs and what color to paint the bathroom. Having to worry about leaving my children with their father - the man I love - while I go on a two-day work trip doesn't seem fair. But I know others have it much worse, so I feel guilty even complaining about that.
I'm just feeling lost and paralyzed by indecision.
Well, from my experiance and years of having kids at risk: I went thru alot of what you are going thru now and stayed together. I guess as I look back, I closed my eyes and never educated myself on how alcohol effects your family on a everyday basis. I only viewed it the days he was drinking and thought the other day & turmoil was all normal.
As the years went by this is what I ended up with. A AH who was sneaking his drinking and putting my kids (teenagers) on his motorcycle while he was intoxicated.
A AH who was sneaking taking my underage daughter to bars.
A AH who was intoxicated & sneaking,,,texting mean verbal words to my kids
A AH who was starting to steal my money while I was in the shower.
A AH who was screaming at me & not going to work, blaming it on the economy. And in the past few weeks, he admited, he was drinking & had been hiding out drinking for 8 hours.
A AH who has damaged the relationship between my daughter & I. He put her life in danger too many times, without me knowing! Talk about beat myself up. How could I have been so blind. Those are questions you can only answer. He was a great dad, fun person, who would of ever thought he would put my children in danger. He did, plain and simple... 20 years later, I get to hear my kids side of the story. Im ashamed I didnt see this coming...
A AH who has taken away the joy of me being a mom. My kids will never come home now.
He is now in rehab, we are finanically in a mess, my kids are gone, my daughter has major mental issues, I dont know who I am and dont know what to do with me. And yes I say to myself...Never thought this would of ever happen to me. This only happens to other people. I have been a great mom..."What a joke"....Im here online writting my story. Time has nipped me in the butt before I knew what happen.
I had to leave a few weeks ago for my own safety. Came back home once he checked himself in.
I attended my first Alanon meeting last week and have been online reading alot. It has helped!!!!
I can tell you MOM to MOM....Stop It Now!!! Before you wake up someday and have 20 year kids, that are messed up and wont come home, because YOU allowed your AH to mentally ruin your children & yourself.
** REMEMBER** They abuse even on their on sober days!!!!!
Educate yourself on the mental issues of the AH. I feel they are 2 seperate issues. 1- mental (from his childhood to present) 2 - alcohol
I had a recovering addict teenager tell me 2 years ago to get help with codependcy and to attend alanon. The strong person I am, I laughed and thought, what does this kid know...Well he knew more than I gave him credit for. Guess, thats what Im telling you...GET SOME CLASSES UNDER YOUR BELT!!!
My AH didnt know when to draw the line & put my kids in serious danger. He has mentally damaged my daughter. Now.....Here I sit typing to strangers, trying to help them WAKE UP & do the right thing for your kids!!!
I am new to this myself, but wish I could turn back time & could have done the right thing for my kids and myself years ago....
Only you know what to do...but continue to read, educate yourself and go to a alanon class. It will blow your mind on how a group of people, have the exact same thoughts, fears, hate, sadness as you!!! Your not alone baby!!!
Holly, I wanted to add a little more of my experience in response to your thoughts. First off I'll say that the best thing to do is different for everyone, and everyone's situation is different. So what worked for some of us might not be the best choice for you.
I also cherished that hope that my AH would stop drinking for good. That's why I hung on as long as I did. And he kept going into recovery, so that seemed hopeful. In my case, my AH never did stop drinking. I discovered the statistics are that about 80% of drinkers who go into a recovery program do not achieve sobriety for the long term. And leaves aside the drinkers who never enter the programs at all. However, there are so many drinkers that even 20% means there are thousands, maybe millions of people who have achieved longterm sobriety. No one can predict the future. However, I saw that my AH just was not going to do it any time soon. When that became clear to me, the decision was easier. I didn't want to keep going through what I had been going through. It may be that your situation doesn't warrant that kind of clarity, yet, or maybe ever. That's something to think about as your experience of it grows.
But my real aim was to say something about your kids' love for their dad (which of course they feel), and how they would feel devastated not to see him every day. This is a hard truth. My experience is that the fact is that a drinker will disapoint his children in some way. (Well, we'll all do that, unfortunately. I mean in a big way.) Because even if he's there, his primary allegiance will be to the bottle. I don't know what form it takes with your husband. With mine, he wasn't always paying attention when he was with our son, or when we were talking -- he was zoned out on alcohol. He was only half there. I remember my son frantically begging him to read a story, and my H trying to get away (so he could go to the store and buy a bottle). Eventually he started passing out. He would sneak out of Thanksgiving dinners to go have regular nips. He would stop playing games in the back yard and "disappear" mysteriously and come back later the worse for wear. And on and on.
Kids are smart and they notice things, even if the adults have unspoken rules about ignoring all the weird behavior. I realized that in my case, the question I had to face was: how was I going to manage the fact that my husband's drinking was going to affect my son? Did I want it to be in the house every day, or only at a distance? As my son got older, the question became more important. At two he was too little to understand, but as he got older he'd be more hurt by his dad's bizarre behaviors. I was also worried about the example his dad would be setting.
Again, just my experience -- take what's useful and leave the rest.
It's really scary when the kids are in danger. I feel your anxiety.
I urge you to declare what I'm sure you already know. You and your kids shall never ride with your husband driving again. If you have your own car, he shall never drive your car again, not even to move them around in the driveway. Declare it for always, then you don't need to wonder whether he's been drinking. No longer an issue.
I know it is a huge burden to do all of the driving for your family - I know it first hand, but it is less stressful than the anxiety and worry of "what if ..."
So restricting cars and drivers should be a first move. You'll have to formally let daycare and any other caretakers know that your children are not to ride with their dad. If they ask why just say "my reasons are personal" or some non-committal comment.
The other burden will be to find an overnight sitter when you are out of town. It sounds like you have friends and family nearby so you should be able to do that. If your children need an explanation - make it sound like an adventure, "OH, I though it would be a lot of fun for you if you do a sleepover at ..."
Protect you kids by making sure they won't ever be in a risky situation. It'll create some scheduling issues. That relieves a lot of anxiety and you'll have time and peace of mind to live the al anon program for the what to do about my husband stuff.
You're not alone. Your car problem is not unique. You will get through it. One day at a time. And keep coming back.
I have been in that type of situation. It was pre Al-anon and I handled it poorly. I just didn't know about all of the options available to me.
I didn't want my A to be left alone with our son. I had a hard time with how he was with our son when I was there.
I don't have to leave our son alone with his dad. I have the ability to get a sitter. I can drive my child wherever I need him to go.
Basically I am a single parent. I used to get so upset and bitter about that. My A has left me three times in the past as my boundaries are at times too much for him to deal with. I have realized that when he gone, I have a great deal on my plate and so does our son, more than when he is here. He did contribute even a little and our son did not have to go through the loss daily of his dream of his parents together and his dad on a daily basis. Not seeing our son go through that takes a great deal off of my plate emotionally.
I can have the person I love in my life, my son can have his dad and all I need to do is set reasonable boundaries. I can care for myself and our child. His dad is always going to be an alcoholic and he will always have to deal with that. I can use this time to teach or son the skills to deal with and A parent. Al-anon guides me and I guide our son. To me that is one of the greatest gifts I can give our child.
Forgiveness is for me to heal, and has nothing to do with anyone else for me. I can forgive and still set boundaries to protect myself and child. I didn't know that for a long time, but in working my program I learned. All I need to do is live my Al-anon program and for now all is okay.
Wow Holly...we could practically switch situations and think we were still in our own lives! It'll take me too long to tell you my whole story, but right now I am with my AH and we have two daughters, 8 and 9.5. I love my husband most of the time. I hate him some of the time. I trust him rarely. The only reason I am with my husband now is because if we divorce, I have to lose control of the safety of the children. My husband does most of his drinking at night, after the kids are in bed. I have no LEGAL reason to keep the kids away from him. I have no proof of anything. If we separate, I would have to hand the kids over and know they were with him overnight. He is never sober an entire weekend. I dread the summer because we have a trailer. He tends to drink all the time there (day and night). My youngest daughter LOVES it there and begs and begs to stay while my older daughter (special needs) hates it there and flips out until we leave. I am left in a situation where I continuously disappoint my younger daughter, and start fights with my AH (because I won't leave her there), etc. My AH will not admit he has a problem although he did admit it in the past (went through rehab, etc.) and still attends AA regularly. I am always fearful about leaving my kids alone if I want to go out for a late evening, and absolutely terrfied to leave them alone overnight with him. I am always worried about what to do if I need to go away for work overnight (rare, but possible). Their dad would flip out if I tried to take them to someone else's home when he was there to take care of them. He is an okay Dad. He has potential to be spectacular, but stills acts like an A when sober (sits around on the couch 75% of the time, does nothing with the kids). Anyways, I won't bore you with more details...but I TOTALLY understand your predicament. If you want to email me privately, I would love to talke more. Take care.
Wow - thank you all so much for all of this. I am overwhelmed by the feeling of not being "the only one" for the first time in so long. I want to process everything you've said and wake up tomorrow with a new perspective. I need to take control back - I can protect my kids and myself while not (or not necessarily) leaving the person I love. This is my life, and I need to adjust to it, but find a way to do so while not putting myself last. Thank you so much for all of this food for thought.
I just want to add one more thing (and then I'll shut up at last ). I do know other parents with alcoholic exes who got sole custody of their kids. Obviously it doesn't happen all the time, and there are all kinds of variables. But I wouldn't assume that it can't happen. Anyone who needs an arrangement like that should talk to a good lawyer and see what the possibilities are for their particular situation.
HI Its so difficult when children are involved. It does say in the front of the alanon book that we have to make immediate choices to ensure safety for ourselves and our children.
I had 3 children with my AH. He drove with my son aged around 8or 9 in the car. Hit the curb on both sides of the road before stopping the car. He then put my son in a strangers who had stopped to help.... and instructed the strangers to bring him home to get me. Police and firemen were there when I got there, but eventually I think felt sorry for him because I turned into a raging banchee woman.
This was just one incident. I didn't leave my husband then because I was well in the throws of trying to control the situation I was in. I was just really angry.
I learned that I had to ensure my children were looked after and not to trust my husband. Maybe I should have left then. Maybe I should have left earlier Should doesn't help though We do the best we can do on the day, one day at a time.
No one can tell us what to do We can only ask ourselves .... can I deal with this situation today....one day at a time.
If I can't deal with it I CAN set boundaries These allow me to get my own needs met....they are not meant as ultimatums to control others I have a choice whether I stay with my husband or whether I don't. I make that choice every day
I went to a counseller once who told me I should not get between my son and his dad when they fight My husband had to experience his own consequences. If he hit our son then my son and my husband would learn from it.
I couldn't do that that was my choice Until my son was as big as my husband and for once started the fight. then I stepped back
Nothing happened and they didn't fight again They screamed and shouted and displayed their testosterone levels My son ran off and my husband ran after him and they both apologised. My daughter was left scared and upset The counseller was right, but I wasn't ready to take that risk with my son.
I think we have to be ready for our choices. face to face meetings REALLY help
My spouse is not an A but this is what I would suggest First and foremost is the safety of the children, so now when you must leave town make arragements for them to stay elsehwere, grandparents, aunts whatever because your husband has already shown you what he does while you are gone. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We have all done this before we hit the doors of alanon. 2nd find and get yourself to some alanon meetings, work the program it is suggested that unless you are in danger that you work the program for at least 6 months before making any life changing decisions. By 6 months you will be much more educated on this disease and you will hopefully have learned healthy coping skills to deal with this disease. There are many here who choose to stay with thier actively addicted partner and they work a very good program. You do not have to make any huge decisions today or next week in regards to your marraige. Give the program a chance before deciding whats right for you and your children. But again thier safety is of the utmost concern... so in a calm sober moment i would explain to your husband that due to his " slips" while you are gone you will be making other arrangements for the children in your absense. he may get angry and blaming but I believe that is one boundary you need to put in place immediatly. Again pls find some meetings to attend keep posting Blessings
Wow, reading these posts has been so helpful for me too, Xeno59 you are so brave to be making these first steps and I commend you. Also everyone who has posted has helped me to put my own turmoil into perspective as I have 4 children to protect the youngest being 2 1/2 mths old. My A is currently on the downward spiral just managing to keep existing again. So trying to workout whether I'm still healthy mentally whilst ensuring my children are safe is really hard. Almost at the point of needing A to move out again whilst I work on my own health. When Alanon teaches that we are not to be enablers, to set our own boundaries and put ourselves first, where does that leave the children? Reading these posts has helped with some of this, especially not making life changing decisions too quickly.
I thought that by staying with my first husband I was protecting my kids. But I wasn't at all. It was so damaging to their psyche to live in that toxic environment. I thought they weren't aware of a lot of things that went on but they were, they just stayed silent.
I did leave him and things got so much better. Yes, I worry about them when they are with him but they know how and when to call 911. They are now old enough to decide whether they want to go to him or not.
). I do know other parents with alcoholic exes who got sole custody of their kids. Obviously it doesn't happen all the time, and there are all kinds of variables. But I wouldn't assume that it can't happen. Anyone who needs an arrangement like that should talk to a good lawyer and see what the possibilities are for their particular situation.