"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

usedtobeanyer · Senior Member

Confronting, but not about drinking

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry that you're confused and frustrated!

I do believe that it is entirely up to someone else whether they drink or don't drink, and that my bringing it up will do nothing except frustrate me and cause me grief. That said, I feel that situations having to do with parenting and marriage relationships should be discussed. Seems like "confront" is a strong word, as it suggests that one way is the "right" way to do it - and also has a connotation of accusation. Perhaps simply opening up a dialogue that starts with "I feel" statements would be useful - a dialogue in which you can both talk and listen, but not in an accusatory manner. For me, I've found that when I need to discuss things with my AH related to parenting and our marriage, if I approach it from the perspective that we are a team I am able to have more compassion and be calmer and less accusatory.

Just my .02.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Usedtobe

I hear you and at times the program is a bit confusing. You are doing fine with acceptance and not having expectations.   When we have accepted these tools then it is time to look at others that might help to rebuild a healthy relationship. Focusing on ourselves, as you are doing , you are discovering things in the relationship that are upsetting. Before alanon , I would pretend these did not bother me, or deny they existed because I did not know how to handle them.

Now it is being suggested that you express your concerns with your wife.

If you remember to say what you mean and mean what you say without saying it mean It can be done. You can suggest that you are concerned about her interactons with the children and then remember to listen , as in a meeting with an open mind. It is the opening of a communication It must be a two way street You can hear what she saiys and like at a meeting accept her statement without trying to change her.

Keep it simple, remember you are powerless over he actions and can only change you. It may be important to see your part in the issue and talk about it from your point of view. Example
When I play with the children they seem to get competative and fight It is upsetting.

This is like learing a new language so be gentle with yourself

From a current NYer to a Usedto beanyr- remember if you could live here you can do anything aww

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

My two cents on the two issues you brought up....

They seem very different to me...

1. Wife not playful with the kids - in my opinion (and hearing my sponsor's voice echo this, from my past) - this is where you might be trying to control her behavior, and "shape" her behavior toward what YOU think it should be.... Bottom line, her relationship with her kids is just that - HERS. You are responsible for your own relationship with the kids, and NOT for hers....

2. Relationship with past romantic interest - this one is completely different - this one IS your business, and you have every right to have whatever boundaries you need on this one....

Just my opinion...

Tom

sunflowergirl · ~*Service Worker*~

I am learning that I have to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. I worked on saying things with my sponsor when I had a huge thing I had to say. She helped me hash it out and make it that exact thing of saying what I mean, meaning what I say and not saying it mean. I took out any emotional baggage and just stated the facts, in a nice way with the "I statements". Your therapist may be able to help you hash this out. That is a big thing for those of us in Alanon, we used to go rush through everything because we wanted it done and out of the way, now we are learning to take our time and think things through. That slogan "when in doubt: Don't" really helps me a lot. And the other one: "Remain Calm!" Take your time and really think about how to say things and when to say them. Not in front of the kids is a really good place to start. Remember to breathe!

-- Edited by sunflowergirl on Friday 7th of January 2011 12:00:32 PM

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

I've found that when I'm feeling I need to open my mouth about something, I need to bring it to my HP first. Pray on it. Giving it time and taking it to my HP allows the energy I have around the issue to settle a bit and it makes it a lot more likely to speak in a calm, non-combative way. It allows me to speak my truth without drama.

I say this with all due respect to our AA family, but just because someone is in AA doesn't mean they know the Al-Anon way. I've heard too many double-winners say that they didn't truly start the real healing process until they finally walked through Al-Anon's doors. Is your therapist a double-winner? It's one thing to know about the program... it's an entirely different thing to actually be living it.

I'm with you on the subject of feeling like I'm going to at least have to get it out in the open that something someone is doing leaves me uncomfortable. I'm experiencing some of this with my mother lately. She's the prime qualifier in my life now that I divorced the AH. She has a pattern of writing to me when she's not feeling well and dumping a lot of her guilt out on me. I've never liked how it feels to be on the receiving end of it, and I know I'm going to need to speak up at some point in time and let her know I'm not okay with it.

The one thing I have to remember, however, is that my saying something - even in the most constructive, loving way - does NOT mean the other person is going to listen or change because of it. They may not take it well, either, so I have to be okay with their not being happy with me for speaking my mind. I really have to erase all expectations from my head that leave me thinking "If I speak up, then they'll stop." So, just be prepared for that when you do decide to say something.

In support.

clep · Senior Member

The responses are interesting. My concern about the Al-anon program is that at times, the level of acceptance and low expectations, I fear can make me a doormat.

I am much more willing to deal with the ex better than the lack of interaction with the children. I would definitely be saying something about the emotional neglect the children seem to be facing. Some may feel that the relationship with the other parent and the children is none of my business, but I feel quite the opposite. I am required to protect and care for my children regardless of who I am required to say something to. I have never neglected to be a spokesperson for my children. I also create situations though for my A to be involved. My son and A like to do the same things, and I don't. I do things I don't like often so we are doing family things together.

With the ex I might be insecure but I can handle that. For me that fear would be that I would be cheated on or that he would leave me. If he is to do something like that it is a character defect that is present whether the ex is around or not. In that area I tend to work on myself. I would say something gently about my concerns and determine if the boundaries are the same for each of us, and what needs to be compromised in that area or not.

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

You received good ES&H about your concerns. But, one other thing you might consider, not bring both of these matters up the same day. I've done that very thing in the past, and usually heard the response......"Well why don't you just dump everything on me at the same time!!!"

Now I always refer to my notes on the proper way to eat an elephant....One bite at a time.

HUGS,
RLC

-- Edited by RLC on Friday 7th of January 2011 03:54:52 PM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember when my son got mad at me becuz of how his father ignored him. I still remember saying I have no control over him.

It is horribly hard, we want so much for our kids, this is their mother. Again we cannot change how someone else is.

My father was quiet, always worked. I remember being happy when he would ask me to hold a board as he sawed it. He never played with us. BUT he did not abuse or yell at us either.

For awhile I remember mother arranged that he took turns having one of us at a time to go shopping or whatever. I remember what he got me, but not how I felt.

Mother is who we went to, who we laughed with. We never felt left out. Daddy provided for us too. We loved him just how he was.

If you do your part, be you with them, this is all we can do. Plus I believe to never put mom down in front of the kids or fight in front of them.

As far as the internet romance. It is what it is. In what I believe marriage is, this is totally inappropriate and very wrong. That is MY experince.

There are feelings there, if there were not, it would not be happening.

Its sad the situation you are in.

As far as no communication, when addiction is the primary problem, there usually isn't any.

I am glad you cont. to come here and get it out. Sure wish you could get to meetings.

Did you get a chance to read,"Getting Them Sober?"

hugs,debilyn

usedtobeanyer · Senior Member

The thing that keeps popping up in my head when I think about confronting (I agree with White Rabbit, probably too strong and not the right word) is that I don't think she is "well" enough to handle this. I know my wife pretty well and I know it may sound like I'm projecting but I have a pretty good idea of how these conversations would go--she would get very defensive and sad. And in the case of the Facebook contact, she would probably lie--"What are you talking about, I never hear from him other than some occasional Facebook comments". Meanwhile, I know he has called, and I know he has e-mailed multiple times. And if/when she does lie, that is when it becomes very hard for me to calmly respond. So I'm left thinking--what's the point?

I think in a lot of ways, my wife & I are both learning how to deal with life and confronting the issues we have carried with us our entire lives that we have never dealt with. It's obviously going to take a lot of time for both of us to deal with things in a healthy way. And neither one of us is there yet. So on the one hand, I feel like now is not the time to raise these issues. But on the other hand, I am not happy with either issue I have raised.

I do think it is important that I make an effort to raise one of these issues this weekend (yes, one of them, not both!). For me more than anything. I need to see if I can do this in the right way--say what I mean, mean what I say, and not say it mean. And not expect any type of response or reaction.

Thanks again everyone!

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with Tom her relationship with the kids is not your business , it is what it is and the kids believe it or not know that intuitivley , there is no right way to say your not a good mother .
AA and Al-Anon strongly suggest we dont team up with the oposite sex durring recovery were all way too vulnerable , I aslo agree you have a right to ask her to not be involved with this other man , keep expectations low and it will work out fine . I have a couple of male friends in program who call often but this is okay with my husb we have discussed it and he does know both of them as well . so no secrets here ..

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't see how she can be defensive and sad if you present the issue with an "I" statement, rather than "you" statements... "I am feeling insecure about your FB relationship," "I don't feel comfortable..." "I am hurt..." etc. Keep the focus on you and your feelings about it. "You" statements put us all on the defensive. And I believe the relationship is definitely an area to discuss, you deserve to feel safe too.

I agree with canadianguy about the children, you can't change her. You can bring it up, but don't have any expectations here. I wanted my husband to be a more attentive father, and I wanted him to stop acting like a teenager when the kids were teenagers. I mentioned it all, but it never changed, it only set ME up for more resentment.

My sponsor often tells the story about her early sobriety, how meetings had to come before the children, who were very young at the time. She explains that it had to be done this way, she had to become well before anything else. Today, she has a beautiful relationship with all of her children.

I really see you working the program, I applaud you. I see you taking a softer, gentler, more thoughtful approach... with yourself and your wife. This looks like Higher Power at work to me.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

"So I'm left thinking--what's the point?"

So you wrote this above, and you say you have no expectations. That one topic will hurt her, the other, she will lie.

If it were me who the discussion was pointed towards, I would feel backed into a corner.

If it were me, I would not bring up either issue, but bring up how you "feel." Meaning that you would like to have a better relationship as far as your talking to each other etc. Not blaming either person.

I would ask myself, what is my goal? To me it sounds like you care very much about your relationship. That is what I would bring up.

This is my experience. Not saying it is right or wrong.

Hugs,debilyn

xeno59 · ~*Service Worker*~

Gotta agree totally with Tom on this
You can't make her the mother you want her to be, she is who she is. It doesn't mean she doesn't love her children, it is likely she is parenting the way she was parented. so i would say you need to let that go. Or if you want to see more interaction between her and the children plan family activities where you all attend.
As far as interacting with an old flame.... if it was me ( and i dont think it matters if your spouse is an A or not) it would definitly be affecting my relationship with my husband and I would confront about it. Maybe not in an accusatory way, but just by letting her know that her relationship as innocent as it maybe makes you uncomfortable and you would rather she end the relationship.
That is just my opinion and what I would do
Blessings

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

We have some awesome recovering members here at MIP. I see the feedback and
the suggestions that were made to me and which I was guided into following up on
once I got over myself (big hill...still going over the top of that one).

You have been responded to by successful oldtimers up to an including feedback
on the margin between what an AA knows and doesn't know and what those who
don't know do about it so that they can know.

However the point isn't about your alcoholic or your therapist or either the AA or the
Al-Anon Programs. The point (I hear) is about being stuck for now and and confused.
Confusion for me is the tension between this and that...what and who to believe and
the solution, again for me, the peace of mind and serenity; the sanity (last word
promise of the second step) came from focusing on the spiritual, Al-Anon step and
traditions program of recovery. When I focused on that and that alone and made a
commitment to work it the other stuff started to reach their own solutions without my
help, while I was relaxed.

I have a prayer on my refrigerator door (isn't about dieting) which starts out,
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God..." It is a 12 step prayers and
the most important part of it for me is the first 4 words. If I don't do that I am on
my own again by choice and no single bit of peace of mind and happiness has a
chance of survival and too I will continue to reside in the habit of insanity...by choice.

I get the impression that you don't know how to confront. So why attempt it?

In support ((((hugs)))) smile

f2fmember · Veteran Member

Hi
I can only speak from my own experience.
I can find my husband (4 1/2 years sober) very defensive.
If I say anything he takes it as critisism
But also I am aware that I may be trying to control without knowing it.

What I find works better is to write down what it is I am trying to say.
I spend time over it and try to consider the alanon way.

Is my focus on me?
Am I projecting?
How important is it?

I try and write as I would share

I and not you....if you know what I mean.

So ....I am feeling......I am worried about
and not ...you are doing....and you are making me feel.

I makes it alot harder to write but it also make me consider exactly what it is that is bothering me. I have to consider my words.

I find I can change my own mind about saying anything
Or I can give what I've written to my husband to read.

It can take a day or so for him to respond sometimes.
Sometimes all he says is
ok I'll work on it
or
I see where you're coming from.

sometimes he says (or writes back) that he has issues with my behaviour.
Which I then have to consider.

It takes a long time but it gives my husband time to think, to talk over with his sponsor, to share at his meetings and to check his own responses.

when I just say.... he doesn't trust his responses, percieves my 'talk' as an attack and goes into defensive mode, which usually results in bad feeling

My husband began drinking at the age of 11. He will be 5 years sober in May, which gives him an emotional age of 16 ish. He is learning to deal with things. Its taking me time to recover through Alanon. His recovery is not just from drinking alcohol. He is learning to deal with life and deal with his anxieties without crutches.

not sure if that helps

f2fmember (used to be mon)

usedtobeanyer · Senior Member

Thanks Jerry. I hear what you are saying. You are right about confronting, I am not good at it.

I still feel confused, but I feel humbled also. That's a new feeling, to be honest...

Abandon myself to God...

Jerry F wrote:

We have some awesome recovering members here at MIP. I see the feedback and
the suggestions that were made to me and which I was guided into following up on
once I got over myself (big hill...still going over the top of that one).

You have been responded to by successful oldtimers up to an including feedback
on the margin between what an AA knows and doesn't know and what those who
don't know do about it so that they can know.

However the point isn't about your alcoholic or your therapist or either the AA or the
Al-Anon Programs. The point (I hear) is about being stuck for now and and confused.
Confusion for me is the tension between this and that...what and who to believe and
the solution, again for me, the peace of mind and serenity; the sanity (last word
promise of the second step) came from focusing on the spiritual, Al-Anon step and
traditions program of recovery. When I focused on that and that alone and made a
commitment to work it the other stuff started to reach their own solutions without my
help, while I was relaxed.

I have a prayer on my refrigerator door (isn't about dieting) which starts out,
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God..." It is a 12 step prayers and
the most important part of it for me is the first 4 words. If I don't do that I am on
my own again by choice and no single bit of peace of mind and happiness has a
chance of survival and too I will continue to reside in the habit of insanity...by choice.

I get the impression that you don't know how to confront. So why attempt it?

In support ((((hugs))))

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"