can it ever be controlled or is this another lie?? - Al-Anon Family Group

Fallon · Member

can it ever be controlled or is this another lie??

ythannah · Senior Member

As far as I'm aware, AA is completely abstinence based.

I've heard of the "controlled and moderate" approaches to drinking but I'm afraid I don't give them much credence. They are not 12 step programs.

The nature of the disease is lack of control when it comes to alcohol. Also, it is progressive, so "moderate" may not be the case a few years down the road.

And I tend to think that only an alcoholic would really worry about whether they could ever drink again or not. Most non-alcoholics I know who are told they shouldn't consume alcohol because of illness or medication really don't care -- it's not a big loss in their life.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

When one is an addict/alcoholic, alcohol is "poison" to them.

I am thinking it is like all the stupid diets that are out there. Just some idiots trying to make a buck. Or they want to justify their using.

very sad.

hugs hon,debilyn

maire rua · ~*Service Worker*~

AA here is completely abstinence based. It is based on a 12 step approach.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I know there are some "controlled drinking" recovery groups out there. They're not AA but independent. The most famous one was in the news a few years back because the woman who had helped start it, and championed the idea of controlled drinking, was driving drunk and killed someone in an accident. She said that for her "controlled drinking" turned out to be a delusion.

I also know that AA doesn't say you have to stop drinking before coming to a meeting -- or else they'd lose a lot of members whose recovery isn't very far along. But the AA message is that recovery involves abstinence.

Maybe some of our members who are also in AA can say more?

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

The AA program is based on total abstinence. The controlled drinking groups are not AA.

IMO, if drinking could be controlled, there would be no alcoholism.

flinn66 · Senior Member

AA is abstinence based - there is no such thing as 'controlled drinking' for an alcoholic. My A has been down the same road - rejected AA and tried other methods - they did not work, to the alcoholic it is a poison - Physically, Emotionally and Spiritually. It of course helps the illusion for the A to believe that they can drink, and Alcohol is just too powerful to be controlled

Hugs

clep · Senior Member

I do know of a couple (Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald) that have a website where they teach that if the underlying issues of alcoholism are addressed and treated, the alcoholic can successfully drink again.

I have never once heard of this being the case myself. All of the AA speakers and meetings I have gone to have each said without exception they have tried what your spouse is saying and failed.

The A in my life has tried that idea. It turned out very poorly and the insanity returned in a very short time.

I do not know of any program, even secular based that advocates controlled drinking at any point in the future of an A.

I believe this wishful thinking is a natural part of the process of denial that most A's go through. It took a few tries for my A to realize it was not the case.

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

No AA group I know of would take time to teach anyone how to control thier drinking , wishful thinking on the part of the alcoholic . AA is all or nothing. However there are private clinics that claim to have the answer to controled drinking which to me is a complete joke ..

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh out loud when I read that. It's not nice of me, as I understand this person is suffering, but one of the huge contexts in AA is that ALL of them wished they could drink sociably and responsibly... they finally came to grips with its being an impossibility, thus abstinence is the answer.

Desiring controlled drinking is just another method of the disease trying to regain its foothold. More excuses to drink. The alcoholic is not okay with himself, thus the looking outside for possible miracles.

I like what someone else posted... if they weren't really an alcoholic, the idea of never drinking again wouldn't disturb them. If I were told I could never have another drink again, I'd shrug my shoulders and say "Okay. Sure." because I don't have a drinking problem.

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Fallon))),

I know of no AA group that would preach any kind of drinking. I have been to no AA meetings where they even mentioned the casual drinking. I have been to several support groups and even they don't mention the idea of casual drinking. It seems irresponsible if they did taught the idea that an addict can "casually drink." It's would be like telling a diabetic you can eat sugar casually. Give me a break.

Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Additionally, the idea that drinking can be controlled is not in line with Step One - admitting they are POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL.

From the Big Book (which is available to read online for free, thus I feel it's okay to quote the literature here)

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

Chapter 3
MORE ABOUT ALCOHOLISM

Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervalsusually briefwere inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.

Cloudsea · Veteran Member

There are indeed groups that teach moderation. One is called Moderation Management, I believe. However, like everyone else who has posted here, I would say that an alcoholic cannot moderate his/her drinking. I think the controversy is whether a person who just drinks more than they should but isnt an alcoholic can moderate their drinking successfully through programs like that. I don't have an opinion one way or the other on that.

It is a fact, however, that the founder of Moderation Management drove drunk and killed someone with her car.

Cloudsea · Veteran Member

One other thing. Most As try and try to moderate their drinking and don't find their "bottom" until they realize they can't.

liam · Member

MORE ABOUT ALCOHOLISM
money could buy was at his disposal. Every attempt failed. Though a robust man at retirement, he went to pieces quickly and was dead within four years.

This case contains a powerful lesson. most of us have believed that if we remained sober for a long stretch, we could thereafter drink normally. But here is a man who at fifty-five years found he was just where he had left off at thirty. We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again: "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in a short time as bad as ever. If we are planning to stop drinking , there must be no reservation of any kind, nor any lurking notion that someday we will be immune to alcohol

THERE IS A SOLUTION
The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly confirm this.
These observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body. If you ask him why he started on that last bender, the chances are he will offer you any one of a hundred alibis. Sometimes these excuses have a certain plausibility, but none of them really makes sense in the light of the havoc an alcoholic's drinking bout creates. They sound like the philosophy of the man who, having a headache, beats himself on the head with a hammer so that he can't feel the ache. If you draw this fallacious reasoning to the attention of an alcoholic, he will laugh it off, or become irritated and refuse to talk.

Once in a while he may tell the truth. And the truth, strange to say, is usually that he has no more idea why he took that first drink than you have. Some drinkers have excuses with which they are satisfied part of the time. But in their hearts they really do not know why they do it. Once this malady has a real hold, they are a baffled lot. There is the obsession that somehow, someday, they will beat the game. But they often suspect they are down for the count.

How true this is, few realize. In a vague way their families and friends sense that these drinkers are abnormal, but everybody hopefully awaits the day when the sufferer will rouse himself from his lethargy and assert his power of will.

The tragic truth is that if the man be a real alcoholic, the happy day may not arrive.

A pickel can never be a cucumber again. Ist not denile,the big book never uses the word denile. Its far more insideus. Its delution, which just means to believe a lie.

MORE ABOUT ALCOHOLISM
MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals-usually brief-were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.

We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of
our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing a making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet.

Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums-we could increase the list ad infinitum.

He could also just be giving you a snow job. Either way, I think the solution for us is to keep the focus on ourselves. Im kinda new to alanon, but not to AA. The obsession with the alcoholic is just as strong if not stronger then the obsession to alcohol for the alcoholic.

the quotes are from the big book of AA

-- Edited by liam on Wednesday 29th of December 2010 03:21:29 PM

-- Edited by liam on Wednesday 29th of December 2010 03:23:35 PM

flinn66 · Senior Member

liam wrote:

The obsession with the alcoholic is just as strong if not stronger then the obsession to alcohol for the alcoholic.

Liam
There is a large truth in this and certainly I know my obsession with my alcoholic is what damages me. I used to think that obsession was love but know that it isn't. It is why every single day I must keep the focus on me.

-- Edited by liam on Wednesday 29th of December 2010 03:21:29 PM

-- Edited by liam on Wednesday 29th of December 2010 03:23:35 PM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

The chains of habit are too weak to be felt
until they are too strong to be broken. ----- Samuel Johnson

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. ----- Samuel Johnson

The chains of habit are too weak to be felt
until they are too strong to be broken. ----- Samuel Johnson