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This comes up a lot. I don't like to fight with my wife (it never gets physical btw but she can get verbally abusive at times). But, there are times I do things that I know is right or something I have to do and I also know she is going to be mad and possibly start a fight over it. Case in point. Wife hired a landscaper to clear our leaves off our property, and didn't tell me. I woke up to find the guys working and a note from wife who isn't home. Now this is a luxury I cannot afford. Paying these guys would mean the electric or oil or cable or cell phone bill doesn't get paid (or I go further into debt to do it). She didn't answer her phone, so I simply went out and sent the guys home. I felt bad but I explained that she hadn't talked to me and I don't have the money. Now my stomach is in knots as I wait for her to come home. Any suggestions for coping?
Hi MJ I agree with Gail Good job knowing your boundary Now to work off the anxiety raking the leaves would do wonders.
I used "leafing" so often to just go outside, and focus on doing soemthing constructive, It also gets the job done, does not cost anything and is good mental and physical exercise.
While doing it repeat the serenity prayer , or think about your gratitude list . When your wife arrives I know you will be in a more constructive place to discuss the situation and validate your decision.
This is where a clear boundary could be drawn, IMO.
To not be involved in a fight is optimum, but to allow unacceptable behavior is a different story. Saying nothing is enabling it.
As a couple it is (again, IMO) disrespectful to spend the household money without running it by the other first. Especially knowing that finances are tight.
The fact that necessary bills would have gone unpaid, she didn't run it by you first and expected you to pay for it is just wrong on many levels. Let alone being absent from the situation and leaving you to deal with it.
Unless it was her money (which it sounds like it wasn't) and she worked overtime to pay for it so it didn't affect paying bills, or you....No way!!
You have already taken control by sending them away (good job). The next step is to control your reaction.
I would state my reasons, set my boundaries and leave it. There need not be a fight. Onceit's been said, saying it again and again in a arguement doesn't make it any clearer.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Stay calm and practice what you want to say, do the leaves and then turn it round by saying you wanted to do them for her, to help out, maybe just drop into the conversation that in future if she is going to hire someone it might be a good idea if she discussed it with you, dont get mad, or attack (verbally) and if your not defensive or attacking and she becomes like that, simply repeat that your not going to turn this into an argument, then walk away.
I had to learn this in dealing with my son, the moment I tried to open conversation with him he verbally attacked so it got like my husband and i wouldnt say anything to him, then I began to realise you cant live like that and you cant run a home if no one co-operates, so I learned to approach him and say "I dont want to fight about this, but in future can you, etc etc et' when he tried to draw me in, change the subject or simply just attack me verbally, I would repeat the statement once more and walk away,
failte
-- Edited by failte on Saturday 11th of December 2010 12:46:51 PM
Yankee...How do you not? Review the consequences for when you do and then do something different...HP first for me for guidance which my HP always directs me toward compassion and tolerance and humility and honesty and being aware of my self centeredness and ego...Then I go to the real problem which if I lay this over my situation (similar at times) is fear and the lack of communications for usually fearful reasons. You might wanna think about the guys relieving you of work so that you could rest (don't know if that was her motive) or what other reason she may have thought up I'm sure that it was different than where you were/are at but not to hurt and piss you off directly.
Sending them home is what you thought was the best thing to do from your perspective. Her perspective is just as valid and honorable...you might want to thank her for the idea and ask her if she had a way of covering the expense that you didn't know about (lack of communications). Then listen. She is not your child she's your wive. ((((Hugs))))
We do not make purchases with out discussing it. She tries to argue, you repeat, we don't make purchases without discussing it. she tries to draw you in. reapeat we do not make purchases without discussing it. PERIOD.
I never argue, never get drawn into it. I learned this working with kids. We had rules, went over the rules and consequences.
The way to not aruge is to repeat the rule. They will get tired and give up.
No anxiety, simple, state the rule.
If and when she calms down, you may want to write up boundaries. and consequences.
Post them. IF she breaks something repeat the rule. period. this works, no reason why it won't.
Same as when someone pulls something in front of the child.
We don't get heated in front of the child. blaah blah, we don't get heated in front of the child....
simple.
Believe me if I can control over 70 teens at one time alone. I KNOW this works. you don't have to get mad, no reason to, you have a rule that is that.
Nothing to argue over.
with my kids I had consequenses. spell? one. No using profanity in my classroom or in this school. Consequence, You sit with me at lunch and right sentences. They goof I say rule is no cussing, so since you broke that the consequense we came up with was lunch with me writing sentences. or doing homework.
The important thing is too, to make up these rules together. Then she has nothing to argue about.
You have nothing to stress about.
even my dogs know if they chase the horse I go get them, put them on their side and hold their heads down. they KNOW I am the alpha and bugging the horses is a big no.
(same as a wolf holding one down by its foot or holding it down by its throat)
My horse even knows if he bugs me when I try to feed he gets sent off.
People are no different. We learn to follow rules from being a baby up!
I always made the rules with my students and my own kids. Then they really knew they had no choice. I loved those goofballs!
Anyway you are choosing to live with her. so this is a good tool for your tool box! You are doing great mr. in a hard situation.
Hugs,debilyn hey would you come over and spray my deck off for me??? (c:
Already you have gotten great suggestions I will just add my own 2 cents although I think it has already been said. Niether my husband or I are A's and we are on the tightests of budgets. At one time we could indepently go out and buy something without asking the other and it was no problem as we had a substainal income coming in. Well times have changed...my husband became disabled and that severly cut into our income but we were still ok. Then I became disabled and lost my job and then we were not ok by any stretch of the imagaination. But old habits die hard,,,it is hard to accept that big of a change sometimes. But once we got our head out of the sand we sat down to discuss finances and basically we had none so it wasn't to hard of a discussion After 4 yrs we got back on our feet somewhat and could splurge once in a while But again we sat down and laid out the ground rules....and this was vital because my husband ( god love him) if he wants something and can rationalize in his head someway to get it he will. well that behavior had to stop So the ground rules were plain and simple, with the exception of basic nessesities if one or the other of us wanted to spend money it had to be agreed upon by the both of us...and i mean just buying a simple dvd. Once we discussed it and figured out how to pay for it without going into debt then we could agree to make the purchase or not. So in a calm moment your wife may need to see your bank account as well as the bills, if you are the bill payer in the family she may not grasp that when all is said and done there is not much money left over. And set some boundaries as to how any extra money is spent.... i know easier said than done But if you show her your bank account and how much money is coming in then a list of monthly bills to show how much is going out she will see for herself there isn't much room for splurging on non essential things wishing you the best on this....money is always a touchy subject even in the best of marragies but it is a nessesary conversation to have even if she gets angry she will get the message. Blessings
thanks...my issue here was having my stomach in knots all day before during and after a fight. I was not angry actually because I fully understood why she wanted to do it. She's impulsive and has done things like this in the past so I've given up on the idea that I could convince her to talk to me first, it just wont' happen IMO. When she came home, I was calm and explained what I did and why. She got upset and basically hasn't talked to me all day other than to say she "deserved" this because she'd been good with money lately (she has) had worked hard all semester at school (she did) and that I have a bad knee from surgery (I do). It's just that with a $1000 auto bill looming and money tight, I thought this was an unaffordable luxury. Well, no reasoning worked so I went about my business the rest of the day. I raked myself, did the best I could, my daughter had a friend over and the two of them and I had dinner. We are going out to see Christmas lights. My wife refused to have dinner with us and I anticipate will refuse the Light show as well. Problem is I still have knots in my stomach. How do I not let that happen?
It seems the knots are coming from anxiety or fear of what is to come. Not so much the reality of the situation. Your wife seems fairly predictable to you. You pretty much know what is going to happen. I'd guess that the anxiety comes from a deeper place. Maybe your issue lies more with confrontation itself? A trigger of sorts. I'm not a Dr., I just play one on MIP...lol
My Dad had a stern scary voice when he was mad. It sent shockwaves of fear through me as a child. I noticed that when any man gets angry and uses that tone I feel anxiety well up inside. I just want to get away from it. I've yet to find a way not to feel it. I can calm it, however, by recognizing what it is.
I don't know if you'll relate or not. It took me a lot of yrs. to figure it out, as simple as it is. I never joined the connection of my dad's voice to the anxiety I felt over another persons anger. Once I did, it was like "Oh, OK" it's just residual emotion. The weird thing is, my Dad wasn't mean. But when he used that particular angry voice I was terrified.
Bottom line: The knots are created by some type of feeling. You may have to find the source to untie them.
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
"My wife refused to have dinner with us and I anticipate will refuse the Light show as well. Problem is I still have knots in my stomach. How do I not let that happen?" -mjhyankees
You have to detach from the choices your AW/others make -- they have to live their own lives and suffer the consequences of those actions. What happens to us in our lives = is the (mere) consequence of the choices we make, period ~ it is not personal. That is big news to us codependent enalbers --> bc we are quick to own the feelings for them - the guilt, fear or pain for them. Detach from the residual pain - and simply accept her choices. Allow her to own that pain of being - isolated, removed - you dont ahve to be that way -- you can be fully engaged with the relationship you have with -you, your HP/god and your kid & others too.
I was told this was giving them and you -dignity - allowing them to suffer their own pain (bc suffering is a choice/behavior). Right now you can choose to enjoy your life (day/time) and fall into that pity trap - where we pity them for their behavior and choices (we often do this to ourselves too) - that only drags you down hard. Seperate their behavior from the person you love. Dont do anything for them they can do themselves. Accept reality and then go on, move on and let it go, turn it over to HP/god. Until we detach from the choices and trying to influence anyone (for good or bad - either way) - recovery and healing and the process of loving/living - it all happens in God's timing, not ours. You cant beat the disease into submission, you can only accept right now as it is and then choose to be peaceful and happy. Relax, breathe, feel and let the feelings go. Take care of you, making sure you get all that you need (proper food, sleep, comfort, exercise, meditation, sexual needs, the emotional need to be acknowledged) and do what you must to be sure you are able to meet your needs is a way that respects and honors what you truly think/judge.
Seee this took me a time to get -- bc u do love them, so u feeel unending sadness for their choices -- but what ur doing, is also avoiding true knowing/intimacy of yourself when you put her over YOU. YOU have to be the first priority in your life, so you can be healthy, strong and able to convey life lesssons to your child/ren. When you focus on someone else's state of mine or happienss and as soon as you relaize you are - in their heads, give them to HP/god and turn them over. All things will come to pass in god's time. We cannot wait and hold our breaths for them, we must live for us and our children. So resepct her choice to stay and truly enjoy yourself and the kids and look at all the wonder and the lights/life! She may soon see that isoalting herself - is keeping her from some wonderful childhood memories to be shared with the family. Detach with love and dont look back, she will be sure she starts to find you and share information with you. (one of the most useful tools I ever implemented was to stop asking adults questions -- bc it is a mask for us to control, direct, manipulate et cetera - obviously if it is about ur kiddo, then ask - but dont ask them quwestions and allow them to do what they are doing without your interference. Ive learned so much from keeping more quiet. Watching the behavior and listening with my eyes - detaching from the words and focusing on the true reality.
You can have emotional boundaries and allow yourself not to let outside pains inside to disrupt your serenity/peace of mind. In program, I must be brutally honest with myself and with my HP. I must use discretion and be thoughtful and kind to others - giving them consideration too but not elevating them over us. You dont owe an adult or your parents a thing - you do owe something to your own kids - at least until they become adults and then it is their time to rectify to the past and decide the sort of human they are going to be now and in the future. If u are resentful or angry, u have to let that go thru the process of forgiving or it will continue to fester and come out sideways.
Last thing Im going to write here, is notice your quote up there - u are "anticipating" behavior based on the past and passed behaviors -- do not project, speculate, anticipate (predict), expect (waiting) -- dont do any of that, the future is totally unknown and it is fully in god's hands - you are only in control of changing YOU. We can support and love our loved ones/families/A's and we do not have to agree with their life choices and they dont need us to. They probably dont care - it is irrelevant - we all get to live our own lives and use our own code of ethics/personal integrity.
Live the best life you can and do things that allow you to have more self respect, then the more difficult choices/actions get easier and u can detach from the disease and not take it so personally and allow her to be her - and not fight reality. I am practising non-resistence and mirroring (repeating back to the person) and it helps too. Live the best you can and engage and appreciate whatever you can and you will find it grows. Let her sit at home, she will one day see what she is truly missing out on. I recently had to compeltey detach from the idea my bf and I would be "together forever" and as I detached from trying to posses that (illusion of) control - another set of miracles began to unfold. Surrender your life, ideas, judgements and let god show you something entirely new! This is a powerful time of year to tap into the wonder of life and the unknown-- the light it's self. Relax and let go in the palm of god's divine embrace and pray for willingness. That is how I got to see some miracles - by entirely suspending what I knew and thought and began to stand up for the whisperings in my spirit. It is a continual process.
Stay in the now/present moment and do what you can do now. (I read eckart tolle's book, the power of now) - it helped me with the present.
-- Edited by kitty on Sunday 12th of December 2010 05:19:49 PM
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Hi, Am certainly not the one to say about money issues - am quite useless! However, never being one to keep shut up - here is what I think:
I found you post fascinating, we have all had stuff like this, when we are in relationships. I read Jerry's post, and started to bristle - then, on reflection, he has some valid points.
I think, however tough the financial circs are, we have to agree the basics, then have what is left over to do with as we please. Sometimes what is left over might just cover a haircut, or a bar of chocolate.
The thing is, this meant something to your wife, she felt by doing this, she was somehow in control, or getting ahead.
Good luck with whatever you decide, I wish I knew stuff when I was younger! Just enjoy having your wife with you, this is not that big - everything passes, nothing lasts forever.
Jerry.....she was expecting me to pay for it, even if it meant no Christmas this year...at that point I couldn't talk to her anymore.
Kitty, the knots in the stomach happen all the time as she will often destroy the day for me daughter and I. I can only detach so much, but when it affects my daughter, it's really hard. I keep thinking there's gotta be something I can do. I can't just choose to let it happen.
sounds like anxiety to me, in the proper sense of the word, thats how I used to get around my husband and son when they were drinking, really anxious and fearful, waiting for something to happen, I think thats quite a normal reaction to something so abnormal.
Alcoholics do a lot of ignoring, punishing, glaring, avoiding, sulking, baiting, and I fell for all of them, my son was an expert at baiting me, one minute we would be talking, I would be calm, relaxed in a bubbly mood, next I would be hysterical, neurotic, screaming, frothing at the mouth, I would stomp off upset, hurt and angry, and spend the rest of the day or evening analysing how in the name of God I would go from one level to such an extreme, when I worked it out, I had to work very hard then to never let him steal my peace again.
Read "Detachment" by Evelyn Leite, it helped me enormously, if you learnt to stay calm and not be anxious the hope would be that you could reflect that to your daughter, I used to feel I was trapped and they were in control of my whole day, drunk or not, I allowed them too much power, I hope you can learn ways to take the power back.
Okay...walking the talk and coming back to report it. As I mentioned earlier...up there higher a bit...at times have the same problem...communications and leaving me out of her life while attempting to believe that we are in a "marriage". She gets to see "marriage" different from me the understanding/reality is that although she is my wife and we are married we are still different and I think that's cool. When the communications are done, after the fact, I have new facts...just like MJ has. MJ you validated some positive things with your wife, after the fact. All of those things went into the trash with the use of the word "but" which I learned in program invalidates all that I said before it. I learned to change "but" to and so that all things involved in the situation are valid and mine are not more important than hers.
We have a communications problem "and" the financial condition needs to be attended to. I'm not into repeating justifications because repeating them only verifies the reality that the same thing is happening over and over again and I'm insane to expect that by doing the same thing or saying the same thing again will change it. "DO something different" and get different "unguaranteed" consequences. So we agreed that the spending habits are to change abit...We will start to spend on another new thing...something we haven't spent on for a while...a savings account increase. The agreement is to put 10% of "all" income into the savings account everytime money comes in; (we have several sources) and none of them are oil wells.
My wife maybe like your's gets hurt easy...I care...it is who she is and what she is made of...without my permission she will get shameful and guilty and fearful (#1) and more and without being permissive and enabling I need to offer her grace. She is not LESS THAN she is doing the very best she can with what she has and she will not get weller with me sitting on her shoulders. I don't do weller when she's riding on mine. Ups and Downs become level using our mutual skills and talents rather than just mine or hers.
We allow each other to unwind our decisions and choices if they don't or won't work for the good of both of us and we allow each other to do this with patience and grace. It is how I want to be treated and am treated by HP I also have to practice it.
So...I read and listened and learned and made some changes without guarantees and now its practice time...practice, practice, practice and review the outcomes. I have learned that it won't take place overnight so practice is for 16 waking hours today. I will mind set it and I will work it...best I can with what I have and if I think I need more support...I'm coming back to do this all over again.
For what ever reason also...just for me and my recovery...when my wife buys me something because she is thinking of me or does anything for that same reason whether I accept it or not...I say Thankyou..."and" the rest of the story.
In love and support (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 04:24:16 PM
-- Edited by Jerry F on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 04:28:26 PM
