The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Once my AH said that AA tells its members to "accidentally" leave things around for the non-drinkers to read. For months I have come home to find the internet open to a certain page, a print out on the table, a book lying on the bed, etc. It drives me crazy. Tonight I was looking at our email and the subject was "Some people would understand if only they took the time to read". Of course the email was meant to be "discovered" and read by me. I want to know if this is really AA advice. I mean, I find it patronizing and irritating. If you want me to read something, then politely ask me to do it. I can decline or I can accept. Don't leave things around like a mind game, it "xxxx" me off. To me, it's passive aggressive...have the guts to ask me to read it...don't drop sorry hints like a timid child. The contents of that particular email were about how a man got off charges b/c he had been under the influence of prescribed benzos at the time and this probably caused his over-drinking and crazed behaviour. So I guess that one article makes it okay that my husband acts like he does??!!! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. (By the way...what does ESH mean? I see it on this site).
-- Edited by canadianguy on Tuesday 23rd of November 2010 11:47:34 PM
E S H = experience strength and hope . and no I dont think what your describing is an AA thing at all it is someones attempt to explain the disease of alcoholism from thier point of view , * after all it is all about them * NOT I would just ignore it or if its mentioned to you a simple thanks I will take a look at it when I have time will do . I hope you are going to meetings for yourself Al-Anon , you need support from people who understand . .Denial is a major part of this disease and the article you described is a way of NOT admitting he might have drank too much it was the drugs and no it does not excuse unexceptable behavior . Me i would just ignore them and delete them . just my opinion Louise
ESH means experience, strength and hope, which alanon offers you and me.
I'm sorry you were offended by your A's leaving reading material around for you. I agree it would have been more honest on his part if he had directly invited you to read it . I hear resentment in your post. I hope you can get past the resentments and join us at MIP meetings.
I've never heard of that being an AA method. I think that both AA and Alanon teach honest communication, and that method does not strike me as particularly open. It is one thing to ask someone if they would be willing to read something specific that you found particularly profound. It is another to leave material lying around in the hope that someone else will read it and change their behavior. To me, the latter is an attempt at manipulation.
That said, in Alanon, we learn that we need not be manipulated by other people's behavior. Alcoholics are master manipulators - manipulation is a big part of the disease of alcoholism. We also learn detachment - to detach from what is not ours. If a particular behavior is bothersome, we don't have to engage. We have the choice to leave that behavior to the person who is exhibiting it, and to go on with life without giving it any more consideration. No need to try to make the other person see the error in their attempt to manipulate - this is part of the other person's recovery. The ability to leave it alone without getting baited in to either an argument, guilt, or changing your behavior in an effort to please someone else is a part of your own recovery.
I remember thinking about doing the same thing myself when I entered Al-Anon... leaving pamphlets sitting out for the AH to stumble across... "Alcoholism, the Merry Go Round called Denial" is one in particular... ;)
The thing is... I also decided that sort of thing would just be passive-aggressive of me and just another form of manipulation and control. I always kept my Al-Anon books in a certain place - not glaringly in-your-face, so I figured if my exAH had any curiosity about the program, he knew where to find the books, but I wasn't going to leave the books and pamphlets lying around like a minefield of recovery bombs for my AH to skirt around.
Honestly, I've never heard of AA suggesting this... but then I don't get to AA meetings very often. The only impression I've ever gotten out of AA about discussing the disease was that it's a program of open honesty... which to me would mean being forthcoming about the disease and discussing it openly when necessary. Not leaving subtle hints everywhere.
Al-Anon has a practice of "remember to forget", but it's a PUBLIC outreach thing where we're asked to leave behind pamphlets, etc. in places where people might be in need of help, like at doctor's offices, waiting rooms for counselors, etc. I wonder if that was the context of the AA material but someone interpreted it as leaving things out for the family or spouse to find instead.
Interesting stuff. I'd love to hear a double-winner's perspective since I'm speaking from conjecture only.
I remember crying and thinking I just want peace often.
I pray you find it. I don't know if your husbands actions are manipulation or if he really believes the messages he is sending and really wants you to hear him/ idintify with him? Maybe he is reaching out? Perhaps your HP will help you determine that. I know one time I heard or read that if you think something might be done for a negative reason but are not sure than purposefully assume the positive side. I was amazed at how often the positive turned out to be correct and horrified at how often I was accusing and getting my "feelings hurt" for no reason at all.
AA and Al-anon are based on attraction, not promotion.
You haven't said whether or not you've spoken all those words to your husband...?? Have you asked for a conversation, letting him know that you don't want to see it anymore?
I've suggested the program to my son. ONCE. I feel that if I do it again, I am officially a nag, and it will harm our relationship. Now, he knows how I feel. The rest is up to him and his HP.
I had to want recovery for myself. Did counselors and friends try to get me to go to AA? Yes, and I felt the same resentment I am hearing from you. I was furious with my al-anon sponsor for suggesting AA, and then someone here at MIP started suggesting it. In the end, I realized that I hated it soooo much because... there was TRUTH to it!!! I didn't want to see it. No one wants to be an alcoholic. It means admitting complete and utter defeat.
When I finally wrote down on paper what I could remember about my drinking history (I had been dry for 3 years) I could see it in black and white... I had the same behaviors as my AH did. I didn't go as far down the scale........... yet. Praise HP!!!!
Btw, I see nothing wrong with laying pamphlets around in public places... some do it to reach out to the alcoholic who still suffers, as doing 12th step work. That is not what I see your husband doing. (((hugs)))
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Interesting.... when reading your post, it certainly sounds like this "advice" is keeping him focussed on your recovery, rather than his own....
That being said, when I first entered the doors of Al-Anon, one of the "suggestions" from a couple of the oldtimers was to "accidentally leave" books about AA, or recovery, or treatment centers, etc., so that my (then active) AW would find them.... I think I did it once or twice, but didn't find it of too much value....
T
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I haven't heard that before. . . but I have tried it! To the extreme. During one of our many break ups I put all of his stuff in a box along with a book on narcissism that I bought - that was all about HIM LOL - even had notes in the margins. I threw the box at him and drove away.
Didn't feel very good.
The program seems to work best when you adhere to the attraction not promotion idea. I would have to agree with your passive aggressive assessment. Also doesn't sound like he is leaving recovery based things for you to read, but things that support his excuses for drinking.
Personally, doesn't sound like AA to me. My ex said he never read the book on narcissism and I personally hope he didn't. If so, that means he did the right thing and let it go and chalked it up to me being a ding dong.
tlc
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To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
I did hear to put a pamphlet out at work, but not run around leaving stuff open here at alanon. At home, I have my books, but I don't purposly leave them open or out as a passive agressive thing to get my A to read. He knows I do alanon and knows that I do this message board and chat. Thats all I feel I need to tell him :)
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You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. -Buddha
The past has flown away. The coming month and year do not exsist. Ours only is the present's tiny point. -Mahmud Shabistanri
I hope you are going to meetings for yourself Al-Anon , you need support from people who understand .