"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Hoping for Happiness · Member

I don't know what I am doing

canadianguy · by **toby** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:43 am

Hi there.... I posted this a couple of weeks ago, and thought it would be a good start towards answering "what can I do?". I would highly recommend the book "Getting Them Sober", volume one, written by Toby Rice Drews. I actually give these books away free, for those who cannot afford them.... This book helps us understand what role we do play, and yes, it also helps guide us to working on ourselves, more than trying to "change or convince" the alcoholic....

Hope that helps

Tom

Okay, so what CAN we do??	Reply Quote More Edit Post Delete Post Ban IP Report Spam

Hi folks... lots of great stuff on the board these days, particularly around detachment, enabling, and people genuinely wondering what exactly we CAN do, in order to help our A's find the light, to some extent. The "Getting Them Sober" book series can help answer a lot of these questions, as there are definitely some things we can do to help pave the way for sobriety to take place.... This is in no way conflicting with the three C's - ultimately it is still their recovery, but there are a few things we can do, as outlined below. I found a recent post that was very helpful, and hope it will do some good here as well. The following is reprinted, with permission, from Toby's website. Take care Tom "" How does 'detachment' work? Can one help the alcoholic and still be emotionally detached from his disease? And what if one feels stuck... like nothing will work? The following will help ........ "July, 2008, Recovery Tip of the Month" (from the www.GettingThemSober.com website) copyright by Toby Rice Drews, author, the "Getting Them Sober" books a. The hundreds of practical suggestions for things to do ---- that are detailed in the "Getting Them Sober" books ----- set the tone for the alcoholic to have the best chance to choose sobriety. **How does that process work? The process of learning 'detachment' ------ which is learning how to get a "clinical distance" from his alcoholism ---- i.e., learning how to give the effects of his disease, a very wide berth so that WE don't feel the effects of the disease on US ----- is of course first to help the family keep//retain//re-gain its sane way of life before the alcoholism. But-------it is also for the alcoholic. When the family to learns to emotionally detach from the effects of his alcoholism---- that gives the consequences of the disease back to the alcoholic. And then when he realizes that others-----his family----are no longer accepting the results of his disease by worrying, pleading, begging, etc.......... then he 'stands alone' with his disease. It is then that the alcoholic has the best chance to want to get sober. Because he-------not the family member anymore-----is feeling the full consequences of his disease. And that's when he often gets scared and surrenders to getting help. b. I have been attending open-to-the-public meetings of Al-Anon and all the other 12-step programs for over 42 years, as a health professional. And I have personally seen countless members of Al-Anon report that THE DAY that they no longer worried about what he was going to do------the DAY that he was entirely given back his disease------he asked for help and got and stayed sober. And so many times---- in the day or few days before that happened------ the spouse said, "He'll NEVER get it!" c. What about family interventions? 99% of them only work if you have leverage. "Leverage" means that you have something that the alcoholic wants----or does not want----- that has the power (in his mind) to make him seriously happy or unhappy-----and that you use that power//that leverage-----to give the alcoholic an ultimatum------'get sober or else'----- and if that ultimatum means enough to the alcoholic, then he gets help. That is why successful interventions are mostly accomplished by the courts, or by the job. Unfortunately, the family often does not have the leverage. And------the family is usually understandably too scared to do an intervention. *** But-------learning how to detach------ i.e., learning how to give the disease back to him-------i.e., letting him, not you, much more feel the consequences of his drinking------ doing those actions creates "mini-interventions"-----but without you having to give the alcoholic an ultimatum! * These daily ways we learn to 'detach'------ to get peace and let HIM suffer the consequences, not us-------- we are doing "non-ultimatum-giving MINI-INTERVENTIONS". The "Getting Them Sober" books are full of hundreds of practical, very do-able and effective ways to do those mini-interventions-------i.e., set the tone so that we get "clinical distance" from his junk // we finally get peace -----AND at the same time, create "mini-interventions' so that the alcoholic has a better chance to choose sobriety. d. Thousands of people write//call me and say they "did what the books said" ----and then he got sober. (I get calls from women all over the world who secretly meet in small groups to discuss the "Getting Them Sober" books, and hide them under their mattresses-------who report to me that (on an average) half of their husbands got sober within a few months. The women who contact me range everywhere from small towns in Poland -----to Washington, D.C., where women live who feel that they cannot go to Al-Anon, because of their husbands' "high profiles".) d. * Al-Anon talks about the "3 c's-- (Al-Anon says that 'one cannot cure, control, or cause alcoholism")-------- ** So----- how does one help the alcoholic to want to choose sobriety if one "cannot cure, control, or cause alcoholism"? a. Alcoholism is a disease----not just "a behavioral choice". No spouse of an alcoholic can 'cure' her alcoholic's disease of alcoholism. * But-----the disease CAN be 'arrested' (stopped from progressing) one day at a time--- with recovery! Can the alcoholic 'control' his drinking? No. With every drink, the alcoholic's disease progresses forward. But----- all that means is that he must be totally abstinent------THAT is what stops the disease in its tracks (i.e., arrests the disease's progress, one day at a time). The disease progresses forward no matter how much or how often the alcoholic still drinks. So-------there is no 'control' over the alcoholic's drinking...as long as he still continues to drink at all. * And can the spouse 'control' him to stop him from drinking? Not 'control'------but there are sooo many things that the spouse can learn to do that are in essence, 'mini interventions' that help "box the alcoholic in"-----so that he will have the best chance to want to get help. e. So, can alcoholism be 'cured'? No-------but it can be stopped in its tracks. That is what sobriety is all about------ when the alcoholic gets help and stops the drinking entirely ------- the recovery begins and the healing process starts. The recovery rate in A.A. is 75% ...the highest rate of any program .... what a huge amount of hope! Re: What CAN I do to help?! ------ "mini-interventions" by toby » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:43 am When one feels 'stuck' and feels that there is nothing one can do to help with the situation in the home ------- remember that there ARE things one can do to help------ These 'mini-interventions' are ways to emotionally detach--------and they not only help us to heal-------but it's important to really realize that they are ALSO ways to accomplish "the cheese stands alone''..i.e., 'boxing the alcoholic in'' so that he has a much better chance to crumple and ask for help. When we don't fully try doing them, we often then say, 'this does not work'. When we go back and forth with saying what we mean, and then not meaning it..... of course it doesn't work! The alcoholic has radar--------he KNOWS when we've crossed that line and we won't go back to the way we were. He KNOWS when he can no longer get away with what he got away with before. When we feel that he holds all the cards....... when we feel that there is no way that we can make it without him....... he knows that he's ''got us''. And therefore doesn't have to really listen to us. But when we internalize what oldtimers in Al=Anon always said----------i.e., "you've got to want this program more than you want ANYTHING (i.e., you have to want to heal more than you want to stay in the relationship.)''--------- then, he has lost his power over you. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP. BUT YOU FINALLY GET TO THE POINT THAT HE IS NOT ANY LONGER YOUR TIN-GOD...I.E., YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN, IF YOU CHOOSE TO, LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP AND THAT YOU WILL SURVIVE AND HEAL. THAT HE IS NO LONGER YOUR 'GOD'...YOUR 'GLUE' THAT HOLDS YOU TOGETHER. HE HAS BECOME RIGHT-SIZED. And when you know it-----------he knows it. You do not have to say it. In fact, it's better when you do not say it. When you stop the talking about 'it'-------and just 'do' the actions----- he WILL know it--------his alcoholic radar will pick up your healing and he'll know that he no longer can get away with what he got away with before. Because, before------- he could get away with it all because he knew that THE BOTTOM LINE is that he could do anything because you are afraid to lose him. And when they realize that you no longer are terrified of that-------- they lose their power over you. Most of the time, the paradox is, you don't have to lose the relationship for you to heal and for him to lose his power over you----------- he just has to realize that down deep, you are no longer terrified to lose him. It will go without saying. And that is a much more powerful way for it to happen........without words. You just finally realize, down deep, that he is not the ''Glue'' that holds you together......... emotionally, financially, any way. He is just another of the 4 billion people on earth. toby

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Kim...so much of the language that you read here on the board comes from
inside the rooms of the face to face meetings of the Al-Anon Family groups. What
you have already mentioned hearing here is also what I heard when I first got into
that program along with a ton of other really workable assets.

I was born and raised into the disease and was into my second marriage with an
alcoholic/addict after first being married to an addict. All of my relationships with
women were with alcoholics and my male friends and I drank most of the time.

I didn't know what I was doing either and didn't know that I didn't know. That you
can say that you don't know is a leg up in learning.

The thing I did that worked for me was find the hotline number for Al-Anon in the
white pages of the local telephone book when I wasn't trying to find Help in Emotional
Troubles or the Suicide Prevention hot line and get the meeting places and times so
that I could go and talk with people who really knew what the heck was going on in
my life. I suggest you do that and when there get as much literature as you can and
read it all...sit down, listen, and learn. You already have learned a couple of things.
Ask the fellowship to teach you and help you practice the program and if one of them
really has what you want ask that lady to be your sponsor. If she says yes...great!!
if not ask another and then another until you get help. Keep coming back here also.

(((((hugs))))) smile

member922 · Senior Member

Wow Tom!

I copied down the "mini interventions" bit from Toby.

That is incredible and something that I can read again and again to make myself feel ok. It is very helpful, makes me feel stronger.

Thank you so much!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Re: What CAN I do to help?! ------ "mini-interventions"

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"