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I confronted dh on the beers I found out he drank while at dinner while traveling for business. He first lied and then admitted to it. We had a very long productive talk about my snooping, trust issues, promises made before we got married, our son, and our happiness. Basically, it came down to: he wants a chance to have a few beers with dinner every once in a while or a glass of wine or a drink to wind down after work. He said he's being very conscious of not drinking to excess, he said he was drinking just 1 gin and tonic in the evening and not finishing the whole bottle, etc.
I feel I need to give some more history here, too: When I met him we were in college and we both were abusing alcohol just like everyone else. He had a bad incident with the drinking and got kicked out of a sporting event and we had a huge fight and then he decided he needed to quit. I quit with him and things got back to normal and we got engaged. We were in our early 20's at the time. Then he needed to find a new job and a job from Miller Brewing Co. came about, LOL. It was a 1 year job where he'd sell specialty brands, host events at bars, etc. I hated the idea after we had just decided to quit but he sold me on the idea so I went along with it after he promised me the drinking wouldn't get out of hand. And, you know what? It never did. I went with him to some of the promotions and other times I might have been working and we'd come home about the same time and he was lucid and friendly, etc. Honestly, he did really well with this job and I was proud of him but then we started going to church. At church we met some folks who were big downers on drinking so dh told me that he'd quit after the Miller job and we'd start our marriage without alcohol.
Fast forward again 16 years to today: he believes that if he was able to control his drinking while working for a beer company then he should have proven himself trustworthy now that we're in our 40's. The bad part about this is that I feel he's right and I feel guilty for not trusting him. So, here we are at the impasse, so to speak. He believes he was never given a shot to be an adult with his drinking and that we developed a taboo type of opinion about drinking because of the people we were spending time with, etc.
Yet, I can also look at this and see a former alcoholic(or a young adult who abused alcohol, same thing, LOL) and say that I still don't see how drinking can be a good thing based on the past. I'm almost at the point where I feel I need to surrender it all and let him do what he wants to do. If things go to he** in a handbasket, then that's where they go and then he'll have hit rock bottom and it will be on his shoulders, not mine. That way the drinking would at least be in the open and I can trust him again because I'll at least know what's going on. Then he can decide for himself what his limits are and when he's out of control, if that were to happen(not saying it will).
So, are you all going to tell me I'm crazy? I'm really looking forward to speaking to this counselor soon: I could really use a professional's opinion! Thanks for reading this far!
You seem to need a big dose of letting go. I think you should read your post again. Your still trying to force and orchestrate a bottom for the alcoholic. Only your husband can decide if he is an alcoholic or not. You will never know "Whats going on" at all times. I offer you the first step in Alanon:
"We admitted we are powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become umanageable."
This is the hardest step for me, I have to keep it in my mind and heart at all times.
To add to Bettina's share I am reminded that the last word of the 2nd step is Sanity. Came to believe that a Power Greater than ourselfs could lead us to Sanity. I was crazy when I first got here...certifiably crazy (I worked in the industry) and why I got here was because I was looking for the opposite...sanity. I spent so much time in my head trying to figure out and have "the" one thing I could say or do that would cause the problem to just stop and never found it. In the rooms of Al-Anon I met thousands who never found "it" either but we found the program with the steps, traditions, slogans, love and support and more.
I can see that you're moving toward that...Letting Go; Letting God and trusting others. Your story is so clear that it must mean to me that you have been over that picture over and over attempting to arrive at a solution for yourself and like so many of us you are here starting to get that done. a big YAY!! cause you've come to the right place where we can love and support each other and detach from the disease that has at times literally owned our minds, bodies, spirits and emotions. You can set yourself free here with us as we do the same.
Let him do what he wants to do ? havent you noticed he already is , you cant control his problem its an alcoholics dream to become a social drinker * controlled drinking * it rarley works but who knows ? what matter is when he drinks is how it affects you and Al-Anon will help you with that . Oh those long talks brought back memories for me - I sat thru alot of them for way too many yrs this is a progressive disease every yr it wants more then there comes a time when there is never enough ! Get the focus back on you and regardless of what he does you will be okay
So, let me ask you guys this: At this point should I just set limits on his drinking since I know he's going to hide it anyway? I told him I'd rather know the truth than have him sneak around and me snoop around just to come to the same conclusion: he's drinking again.
I'd rather put a limit and ask him to control his drinking in some way instead of not knowing how out of control(or in control) he may be at any given moment. I'd rather trust him to limit himself to 2 beers than to not know whether he was drinking or not. Honestly, this is just something that's sort of a theory floating around in my mind. He's already proven that he'll lie right to my face so I'm pretty sure he'll do it again. Just out of habit, as he seems pretty familiar with this behavior.
Or, does letting go mean I truly don't involve myself in their drinking at all? I'm really not sure what real 'letting go' really means. I don't want to ignore the problem and let him think that I don't care about his well-being or about his health. By being 'mother hen' I feel that I'm expressing concern for him and love for him whether he wants to hear it or not. I'm not mean, I don't yell, and we discuss things like adults. I don't fling accusations and I just discuss the truths so I'm hoping that open communication and honesty can at some point come into play here. Am I expecting too much or am I not letting go enough at that point, though?
You got it, "You simply don't involve yourself with his drinking at all", but you get support for yourself. You are powerless over his drinking!!
The best time to discuss anything is when they are sober, but its hard to guess sometimes when they are sober. I know one thing, discussion never got me anyplace when it came to his drinking. They know we dont like it. They get it.
Have you been to a f2f Alanon meeting???
It takes time to understand the concept of Alanon and being powerless over the drinking. Being powerless means that nothing you say, do , manipulate will affect their drinking in anyway.
Keep coming back , as questions, read the Alanon material, your best bet is a meeting.
Would someone please remind me why it is necessary to drink at all? I just cant see why.
If he has a problem with drinking, controlled drinking doesnt work.
I dont drink at all and choose not to ever. I was at a party last night and was told I am just as much fun and just as entertaining as when I did drink.
That's for me, but I can not control others. Even better I realize it...
"I'm almost at the point where I feel I need to surrender it all and let him do what he wants to do."
ilovedogs, he will do what he wants to do whether you "surrender it all" or not. The alAnon 3 Cs were a revelation to me, I'm sure you have heard them before but just to recap: "You did not Cause it, you cannot Control it and cannot Cure it" Sometimes I need to keep repeating them to myself.
We don't give specific advice because everyone and everyone's circumstances are different. What works for one person may not work for another. However, you do need to focus on you and your needs. Hope it goes well with the counsellor. Please keep coming back here - you are among people who know what it is like - we have all been there.
You can ask for a limit ,just dont expect that it will end there , this is a disease cunning baffling and powerful it dosent care what u want . I am assuming your not attending Al-Anon meetings for yourself ,please find meetings in your area u will learn about this disease and how usless it is to try and control it , nothing u do is going to work because your trying to solve a problem that has nothing to do with you,its his problem and he is the only one who can fix it . A proffesinal opinion is only going to tell u what were already trying to say , you have no control over what others do the only person u have any control over is you.
Part of step 1 - "we admitted we were powerless over (alcohol, but could be the name of a person - I put my AH's name here), that our lives had become unmanageable."
My life was unmanageable because I tried to set limits for my AH. I made myself nuts trying to set limits and then be the enforcer to enforce the limits and the detective to make sure the limits were being enforced. I devoted my life to limit setting and enforcement. Of course, we all know what happened anyway - he drank. Sad thing is, I wasted my precious life trying to change that.
I understand now, after 2 years here, that I can't stop my AH or anyone else that wants to drink. It is not my business to put limits on someone else's drinking - I am nobody's HP. The only thing I can do is decide what MY limits are - either I can tolerate the drinking as it is, or I can choose to leave.
I certainly did my share of drinking and acting out. I'm not sure I absolutely qualify as an alcoholic but I know I don't behave recklessly when I am not drinking except that indeed I was "drawn" to alcoholics most of my adult life.
For many of us when we get here there is a whole lot of confusion, trying to sort out what is an alcoholic/addict and what our limits are. I think that is totally normal. The ex A who I lived with for 7 years absolutely denied he was dependent. He described all his drug convictions and problems as all being attributed to someone else!
I spent a lot of time trying to persuade him to get help. He didn't want that. He could justify his use till the cows came home. That was when I really needed al anon. I know now that if I personally feel someone's drinking is out of order I don't need anyone else to certify it for me. If I'm uncomfortable that's perfectly valid and I change my boundaries with that person. That would have been very hard for me in the past because I would have been all tied up in the some of the issues you talk about so eleoquently.
I don't ask someone any more to "stop" using but I do change how I relate, how much I rely on that person and what I expect from them. I would not have felt "worth" that before al anon.
I know now that the ex a showed many of the hallmarks of alcoholism/addiction when I met him. I did not know how to "read" them. I also bought into so much of his camaflage, justifications and bold face lies. I knew I was being lied to but I had no idea how to respond to it. I also didn't knwo how to adjust my expectations. Getting to the point of being able to do that takes a lot of work.
If you don't have a copy of Getting them Sober I'd certainly recommend getting one. I'm glad you are reaching out to al anon and to therapy. I 'm glad you are here and looking out for yourself. If you work a program, get some al anon skills under your belt and get a sponsor life can get immeasurably better no matter what your husband does...or doesn't do.
Admitting Step 1 was the hardest thing I ever had to do. My life was definitly unmanageable no question about that but I was so sure i was not powerless to control or cure my son. I assure you i did everything in my power to "set limits" begged, pleaded, cried, manipulated, threatened etc. Nothing worked. My son showed me over and over again I could not control his actions and I finally HAD to admit I was powerless over this disease. If we could control the drinking or using of our addicts none of us will be here. This disease will protect itself at all costs..lying, manipulation, denial etc. If you are expecting openess and honesty from an alcholic you are going to be disappointed. The disease will tell you and promise you anything you want to hear in order to protect itself. Right now i just assume everything my son tells me is a lie unless my eyes tell me different. You are going to eventually have to "let your husband go" That doesn't mean you don't love him or care about him. It means this is a progressive disease it gets worse before it gets better. He has to hit his own bottom, at this point he doesn't know what that is. When he hits it he will seek help. Until then it is your job to put your focus and energy on you and your child. Your husbands focus is on drinking and as long as he is active nothing and no one will come before that. I understand all to well how hard it is to let your husband go, in alanon we call it detaching with love. We don't involve ourselves in thier addictions, we don't do for them what they can do for themselves, we don't lie for them and we don't step in and stop the natural consequeses of thier behavior. By doing any of those things we hinder thier ability to hit thier bottom and seek recovery. Please get to some alanon meetings which will give you so much more information and listen to others who have walked in your shoes. Blessings in your recovery
This disease is all consuming. My wife is my alcoholic. She is going to do (drink) what she is going to do (drink). I have never told her when she could drink or how much she can drink. If I did and she agreed to my rules then I would be setting myself up for failure. The disease dictates and is in complete control of the alcoholic. There have been many times when she tried to stop, wanted to stop, and has stopped, only to lose the fight time and time again. The program told me to put the focus on myself and not the Alcoholic in my life. I did that almost two years ago. I let go, and turned her over to my HP and then got out of HP's way. I didn't let go a little bit, I let go and let God 100%. After doing that a peace came over me because I admitted I was powerless over this disease and my life had become unmanageable. I was not giving in, or giving up, I was letting go.
Her drinking or becoming sober is between she and her HP. I am not her HP. I accept that I am powerless over alcoholism. Trying to stop, or control (put limits) on an alcoholics drinking is no different than stepping out in front of an on coming train. A train is powerful, but unlike alcoholiam it's not cunning, baffling, and powerful.
Putting the focus on myself, attending f2f meetings, and coming to MIP has changed my life. It can do the same for you.
From my involvement with alcoholics, attempted limits just make them sneak and hide. They are going to drink, limits or not.
I also was thinking along the same lines as All I Can Be..I don't understand why anyone HAS to drink if they aren't a alcoholic. IMO, if drinking isn't a problem, why make it a problem in the marriage by doing so?
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
If you ever take some time to read the AA Big Book (the blue one), you'll see that it's every alcoholic's desire to prove (to themselves and their friends) that they can "drink like a gentleman". They wish with all their hearts they could control their drinking.
The disease is progressive unless arrested.
He's going to do what he's going to do.
Now you get to make the choice of what you're going to do for yourself.
Any attempts to limit or control another human being is bound to lead you on a path of misery and frustration. It could very well drive you clinically insane.
You have choices. You can choose to focus on yourself and what things in your life make you happy. Keep your side of the fence clean.
Or, you can continue to choose to try to set limitations on your AH and continually set yourself up to be disappointed over and over and over again and again.
Have you been getting to meetings? Do you have any of the Al-Anon literature? Next time you drop by a meeting, pick up a Courage to Change or a One Day at a Time in Al-Anon daily reader. Next time you feel like setting boundaries that you're really not sure you can keep where your AH is concerned, open up the literature and start reading. Or get yourself to a meeting.
