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Post Info TOPIC: f 2 f group problems. ESH needed


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f 2 f group problems. ESH needed


I can't believe i'm sharing this after replying to a similar thread a few days ago.
I began a new group last year with a friend of mine. we live in a city and there was no city centre group. One closed a couple of years before we began this new one. I never went to the old one, so i don't know (except through rumour) what the issues were.
Two people who were in the old group are members of our new one.
We deliberately included one of them in the making of the new group.

We based this new group on the workings of a successful group just outside the city. The majority of our members are new to alanon so i feel we've been doing well and keeping newcomers who want to stay.

Our conscience meeting tonight ended with a barrage of criticism from the 2 members of the old group. They said we were too controlling because we do not always allow people to share freely. (one of them likes to share for a long time) We are conscious of the fact that time has to be allowed for all to share which is not possible if some are able to share for a long time. Obviously if a newcomer is in obvious distress and working through an issue that's different.
We also tell newcomers that we cannot answer questions or give advice. It can be hard sometimes but we can talk to them after the meeting finishes. We've been told we are not looking after our newcomers well and some don't feel comfortable to stay.

This has shocked me especially after reading the share here about a bad experience at a f2f meeting.

I'm pleased this has been brought up at the conscience meeting but I also feel that this couple are being critical instead of supportive. Divisive and not seeking unity.

I don't know how to feel about any of this. A part of me wants to let go and let God. After all this is His meeting and not ours.
but also the other members of the meeting didn't seem to have an issue with how things are. So i'm wondering if there is some issues with these two people who are wanting the meeting to be how they had it before and which failed.

Should I be worried about the welfare of the group????
Or am I worrying about nothing???

Should i try and discuss the issues raised with the 2 individuals or just accept the issues were raised at a conscience meeting and the solutions will sort themselves out??? (i'm GR)

The other person I started the group with was very personally criticised. She was in the chair and was responsible for ensuring everyone had a chance to share.

Its horrible to leave a meeting feeling so ill at ease

What is peoples gut feeling here?  Are we being too controlling?
Or just trying to follow group guidelines???

iddm




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~*Service Worker*~

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If you held a group concience meeting and the majority were pleased with the structure of the meeting let it  go ..
 Al-Anon provides a group inventory sheet that we do once a yr in our group.  the sheets are passed out and members are given a couple of weeks to see that they are  returned to the group rep all papers are anonymous , take each question and discuss it at the meeting we do 10 min at the beginning of every meeting until we have finished with the inventory all members including new commers are encouraged to participate , since the answers are anoymous it usually goes pretty smoothly these are helpful to improve the group as a whole.
As for new commers it sounds like your doing just fine speaking to them after the meeting is important  - do u offer them a phone list and a beginners packet?
Keep your Service manual handy and encourage members to purchase thier own copy , it has the answers to all of  your concerns and questions . follow the book and u cant go wrong . remember we are rooms full of sick people  some just can't be pleased regardless of how long they have been in program.
I was reminded yrs ago that the sickest person in the room can be an oldtimer.
It sounds to me like your doing just fine . and cudos for starting a new meeting .  Louise


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I came- I came to-I came to be



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Dear Mon123.

As you say the other meeting failed. I personaly believe that if anyone is the boss of their group they have failed.

May I suggest: 1 ask for questions and suggestions from the floor for at least 2 meetings. 2 Asemble the questions and suggestions in a questionare. 3 Take a blind vote on all questions and suggestions submited in the questionare. 4 Tally the vote and enter it into record. 5 live by it.

If the group doesnt work start a weekly lunch club and invite those you are comfortable with.

I often see control and anger issues. It is a purpose of recovery to overcome those flaws. Recovery can suffer for all if old timers spread bad will.

My 2 cents.

Bill

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Thanks for your reply Abbyal. We do give out newcomer packs and include addresses of other meetings in the area, a phone list and a Newcomers welcome sheet that explains some of the weird language used and a few dos and don'ts.

We did a group inventory after our first year, but it was a bit of a disaster. We gave our questionnaires and answered issues as they came up but one of 'old group' members  said we deliberately left out some issues so I felt we didn't do it efficiently enough. (progress not perfection).
I'd be interested to see what you use.

Thank you for your comments. we are trying so hard to create a strong balanced group. We've already managed a change of service role positions (except GR which is for 3 years) and have filled all but PI. Its hard to do PI with a new group of newcomers lol

We have a service manual for the group.

Why is it that the sickest people are the old timers ? biggrinhehebiggrin It doesn't make sense. These two have been in alanon for over 15 years

Its hard to hear people slating our efforts to be honest....is that a bad thing? I struggle with self esteem issues because of my own story. Maybe thats the real issue?
iddm


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Thanks for your reply Bill.
Its that bad feeling that we are worried about

Asking for questions and suggestions from the floor?
Do you mean for before the next conscience meeting?
We've set them for every 2 months.
The last thing we need is to keep the focus on this and to take it off the subject of the evening.
My friend is taking about not giving in to 'gameplaying' and to giving this too much meeting time?

Wouldn't lunchtime meetings with those we're comfortable with become a clique? There are so many criticisms to avoid.

I think I'm going to sleep on this and hope Higher Power shows us how to re gain some serenity. I feel like I'm trying to force solutions here.
iddm


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ESH


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Well, heck!  I've never been in your shoes, but I have been at an open AA/Al-Anon meeting where they DO alert someone who is rambling on to wrap it up so that others can share.  They were consistent with this, and did give the occasional exception for a newcomer or someone in crisis.

I cannot remember exactly how they put it, but it was blunt and to the point, however not rude.  They often reminded each other to "say what you mean; mean what you say, but don't say it mean," at that meeting, too.



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~*Service Worker*~

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My experience with this is if the issue seems unresolved to let those members know their concerns have been noted and suggest they attend our next business meeting, as this is where the group makes decisions on how the meetings are run.

It's up to the group individually, but I'm not sure about making it a part of your opening to inform newcomers we don't give advice. The fail-safe recommendation is to stick with the suggested opening in your Service Manual. Any deviations from that can be discussed at your next business meeting (such as adding something that says "please keep your shares to no longer than x minutes so everyone has a chance to share") and that sort of thing.

When members voice a concern over how things are being run within the group, we let them know the format had been decided at our business meeting, and we welcome their suggestions if they can drop by and participate in the business meeting. A business meeting isn't the be-all-end-all of a hot topic, it can still continue to be brought up again and again and it may be worthwhile to continue discussing the matter.

It's important for me personally not to put too much energy into these things. I get to ask myself "How important is it?" when I look at the grand scheme of my life, which my life purpose at the time seems to be "I want serenity."

My group is going to be holding a business meeting with a group inventory tomorrow, and I have a feeling this is going to be a long process. And that's okay. It doesn't all have to be worked out in 30 minutes. If it takes six months, it takes six months. The important thing is we're bringing items of our members' concern to light and discussing them in a healthy way.

Keep in mind that Al-Anon meetings are full of people who are trying to recover from the affects of living with the disease of alcoholism. That means there are some folks who are sicker than others... but keep in mind we're ALL sick to some extent, and we're all just doing the best we can.

Glad you're going to sleep on it.

Have you attended any of your area assemblies yet? I know there's been a lot of discussion about the new KBDM "Knowledge-Based Decision-Making", which was set forth, basically, as a tool to aide groups in Group Conscience meetings and business meetings. If you've heard nothing of KBDM, get in touch with your District Representatve or Area Delegate - they should be able to point you in the right direction.

Thank you for having the courage to start a new group when it was clear one was needed.

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hi..... ive seen people form invite only meetings. It didnt work and wasnt good for anyone i dont think. In the traditions it says the only requirement is.....  the desire to stop drinking (for AA, im new to al-anon).  Whos to say who is good enough, needy enough to be invited? 

I wish I had some helpful advice. If most people are happy and like how its run, then thats a good thing and its OK. You cant please everyone at the same time. It sounds good you started a meeting and it sounds like a success with people liking to go



-- Edited by Slugcat on Thursday 26th of August 2010 04:54:14 AM

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Clarifications to my earlier posting.

May I suggest: 1 ask for questions and suggestions from the floor for at least 2 meetings.
My thought was to ask all who attend to help with generating the group concensus

2 Asemble the questions and suggestions in a questionare.
So every person would understand what the options are.

3 Take a blind vote on all questions and suggestions submited in the questionare.
Have no visible vote to avoid arguements, favorites etc.

4 Tally the vote and enter it into record. 5 live by it.

If the group doesnt work start a weekly lunch club and invite those you are comfortable with.
Clarification
If this group fails also call your friends and go to luinch.


------------------------------------------
You wrote
Asking for questions and suggestions from the floor?
Do you mean for before the next conscience meeting?
We've set them for every 2 months.

Answer.
Group conscience is what I am suggesting. In the broadest term. Where all who dont want or need the excitement of that meeting still have a voice.

You wrote
The last thing we need is to keep the focus on this and to take it off the subject of the evening.

Answer.
I agree, so get the ground rules down with full input from everyone. To come to a meeting and have it obvious to someone that their share or needs are the source of conflict is a sure way to have them not come back. It is not about individuals runing the group but the group runing the group.

Ask in your questionare if an audible timer should be used. Shiold someone be asked to continue after the meeting etc.

You wrote
My friend is taking about not giving in to 'gameplaying' and to giving this too much meeting time?

Answer.
Get the base rules completed and clear for all to follow. Do this with a chance for all to voice their opinion and have a vote that others can not criticise by voting by printed balot.




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Mon 

I agree with the suggestions. When members of the group brings up issues at a business meeting it is imperative that these issues be addressed,  We cannot determine if the people are sick or the issues invalid without taking a group conscience vote.  They believe that people should be allowed to share without time shared.  TAKE A VOITE ON THE ISSUES 

IF THE MAJORITY DONOT WANT "TIMED SHARES" THEN THAT IS HOW  THE GROUP SHOULE RUN

 vote ON HOW TO HANDLE NEW COMMERS.  AS YOU DO NOW OR ASK SOMEONE TO BRIEFULLY OUTLINE THE PROGRAM AND ANSWER ANY URGENT QUESTIONS
The founders of the meeting is not in control  The format and content of the meeting should be voted on by the membership.  Principles above personalities and remember that our Leaders are trusted servants  THE DO NOT govern

Good Luck 


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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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Thank you all for your comments. They are all REALLY helpful

Voting really is the way to go with this.
A questionare is a really good way of keeping it all anonymous.

I have 2 months I think to get feedback from members as to what should be in the questionaire and to look through the handbook so that we can vote at the next conscience meeting.

As GR I can let everyone know that the comments where taken seriously and that a vote on how we can tackle the issues will be made at the next conscience meeting. In the meantime leave a sheet for suggestions to be voted on.

Thats how I'm thinking
Mon

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Many many groups go through problems. For me when I struggled within any group i took it enormously personally. I also felt that I was the only one who could "fix" it. 

Detaching is indeed a very very hard task to do under any circumstances. What if the group can't get to be the way you want it. Do you have a plan be to look at what if you can't change things? 

Many many groups go through real issues over structure, format, suggestions and change issues.  You are certainly not alone in embracing these core principles.  I know turning it over and letting go is a very hard principle for me.  I've stood by when many a group immolated and not known where it started and how I got there.  Now I no longer find myself in such positons and I know full well its because I embrace the al anon tools. 

Good luck.

maresie.

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maresie


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every meeting is different, and while we basically follow some guidelines, every meeting I have gone to is slightly different.

Some are very easy-going, and others are very strict.

For me, groups have succeeded because the people there seemed to agree on the important things and follow the traditions.

If some people are uncomfortable, they will leave and it's not always a reflection on how the group is run, rather it's about what they need or want.

for example, I may need a more warm friendly group and not all groups are like that.

Maybe some people just need a more liberal group, but that isn't about how any one group is run.

Every group is different.

Just my experience.

Carol

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Rightly or wrongly I have spoken today to another member of the group. She only joined alanon when the group started, but she is really involved and sensible. She went years ago when her husband found sobriety but hasn't worked it all for herself before. She said she found the whole conscience meeting uncomfortable because it was very aggressive and seemed to be a personal attack on the chair person.

She seems to think its a personality thing and has never felt the group to be controlling. She says shes been a chair and has stopped people sharing before and has been on the receiving end. She says its all part of recovery. Its just as important to hear others as it is to share.

She thinks we would ruin the group putting timed shares in. Its part of the chairpersons role to time-manage. We surely have to trust the person to chair as each individual sees fit. Our chair person changes every month so if we don't like one the next one will be different.

I'm feeling more confident now that we are doing ok and can leave the whole issue to be voted on openly at the next conscience meeting. An easy vote asking if we happy as it is or whether the group feels we need to look closer at these issues.

In the mean time I think Higher Power will have to lead us....as he always does and I will have to keep my insecurities at the door.

I think my feeling was that we messed something up and hadn't met the needs of the new group. I'm thinking now that maybe one (or two) member is voicing her own misgivings at not being allowed to dominate the meeting?

Time will tell. I think I need to keep it simple and wait to see what higher power brings us.

On the whole we are very mindful of our newcomers.
I think personally I allowed personalities to cloud the the principles we do use every week.

Progress not perfection?????

Mon



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