The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Some people cannot leave. I do not mean they are unable to do so. I mean, literally, that they have no options and cannot leave the situation. Please do not argue away this assertion because I know from my own life that there are gaps in our societal safety nets.
Circumstantially I am currently unable to leave, but I have managed to do so in the past. My brother, who is disabled, cannot leave. My father could choose to leave. My mother is the alcoholic.
My brother cannot leave. I cannot get him out of the situation as it stands now and I cannot create the conditions which would enable me to do so or speed along that process. I would greatly appreciate hearing from other people who are themselves, or who are attempting to provide support, to those who cannot leave.
People with an addiction can empower themselves through recovery. People who are able to leave may empower themselves by finding the support and strength and resources to do so. And some people cannot leave.
I know there are other people in such circumstances. How do you cope? My mother is a sinking ship and she is taking my brother with her. I cannot stop it. For too many years I have watched this. To the other people out there falling through the social safety nets- how do you manage? And even if you just barely scrape by, as I do, it would be nice to know you are there. Not the people who are unable to leave, not the people who are addicts themselves, but the people who are in situations not covered by our social safety net. You must be out there - the people who cannot leave.
It is my experience that the same support and coping skills apply in the circumstance of staying or leaving.
In MIP, we share our experiences and support, but refrain from giving advice. I have found the message boards and the chat room invaluable. Meetings are held twice daily.
It took me a long time to understand and then apply the alanon principles. I'm glad I hung in there, as they do work and the situation does improve. Please keep coming back.
I could not cope, I quit working, I was so depressed I stayed in bed crying and sleeping. All of that and I was living alone but from a lifetime of dysfunction - the unresolved issues & feelings - the nature of the disease - had eroeded the me I once knew as a child. I was this thing - a product of the disease - and it is progressive.
I find that the universe works like this: it gives us a subtle whispering... then strong wind... then a grain of sand... then a speck of a tiny pebble... then a small stone... then a rock... then u get hit with a brick... and then a bouldler... then a wall... then a building... et cetera.
HP is talking to us all the time. Nothing changes until something changes. I hear that you are worried for ur bro and wanting to help him, be supportive. Best way to do that is with a program of your own. The ACoA (adult child of alcoholic/addict) literature allowed me to make sense of alanon as it spoke to my deeper core issues being raised in dysfunction.
I know how badly you want to help. We do have a chat room here and two daily meetings and this board. I work my entire program online. I apply it and work it with conscious effort constantly.
Learning to find peace and happieness is an inside job. I sure hated hearing that when I wasnt happy but it gave me something to strive for. I knew others had found peace. You cannot give your family peace but by implementing and working the program for YOU, you will change and be a model for your brother to emulate with his own recovery from codpendency. Al-Anon is all about YOU. Maybe you and your brother could attend some meetings "together" online.
Glad u found us and hope u stick around for the miracle.
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Thank you. I hope this group will be able to provide some sort of comfort to people in my, and my brother's, situation.
I do not consider learning how other people have, or are, coping to be the receipt of advice. I am well able to isolate the differences in the circumstances and to recognize what might or might not work within my family.
Please do not attempt to force an attachment of the struggles of people who have no options for leaving a situation to those who do. It is not the same. The methods for coping are different because the options are significantly reduced. I am not disrespecting your struggles. I cannot know your strength or your pain and triumph. But please accept that there is a unique set of circumstances which create a need for additional and/or varied coping tools when removing yourself from the situation is not on the list of available options. Think about what that actually means.
The people who are in, or know someone who is in, a situation from which are really cannot leave will understand the distinction.
I am glad you are finding the support and help you need from alanon and its principles. In order for me to do so I must begin with an acknowledgment that the situation where leaving is not an option is different from that which is typical on here. Not better or worse or more or less difficult, just different. And the different options for the person affected by the addiction necessitates a different or at least modified approach to facing the present and the future. Please understand.
Thank you again. But you don't understand. My brother cannot go online for support groups. Neither of us can attend meetings. I would like to hear from someone who really understands what it means to truly be unable to leave. I realize you all have good intentions, but you are not grasping my first basic point: He is disabled with a mental illness which goes well beyond depression. He is unable, and will not be allowed to attempt to develop, the skills which would allow him to function on any sort of regular level.
Likely this forum is not going to be any assistance. I was attempting to use it in a personalized way in order to meet the details of my family's situation. You just have to accept what I am saying as the truth. I cannot get him out of the situation. I cannot help him to have a different perspective. Yes I can try to help myself but from what I am seeing on here
1. Most people have at least the option to leave, really leave, the situation.
2. Many others seem to be struggling to not give the alcoholic endless excuses. I am well beyond that point. There is no excuse for this. None. It is one thing for a person to destroy their own life. It is quite another for them to selfishly prey on their mentally ill offspring.
I don't want to hear excuses. I am sick of coddling in all its forms. At some point the people who matter are not the person choosing to take another drink. I can't get him away from her. Imagine what a manipulative alcoholic who alternates between a needy invalid-ism and rage does to a person with a severe mental illness.
Forget it. You are all trying to help. I see that. Thank you. We'll just wait it out. Her body versus his brain. It is really that simple.
um, ok I apologize, I am only speaking from what I did and know - I am certainly not trying to belittle you or ur bro in any way or speak light of it either. There is no pat magic answer for any of us here. We practise finding solutions in our lives. There is tons of support and love here for you. I hope u stick around to find solutions for you and your family. I am very sorry for the situation your brother is in and the pain you are experiencing in the family. I can at least relate to the dysfunction.
We share ESH (experience, strength and hope) here, thats all, it isnt advice.
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Welcome to MIP! I hope that you find your answers here. There is always hope for all of us. For my situation, my AHsober left me. He wants a divorce. In a sense, I "can't leave". I can't do it. I am trapped by my own mind and perspective. It is agonizing. I know this is not what you are talking about but your post caught my attention.
Dear G of M - you are not alone. I, too, cannot leave. In my case it is my husband of 38 years who is the A. My late mother was an A but this did not manifest itself until my late teenage years when I had left home but it still had an effect on me. I recall her turning up on the maternity ward when I had given birth to my 1st child and she whipped out a bottle of gin from under her coat to take several swigs!
Back to my AH. He has always been a heavy drinker and has been alcohol dependant for the last 5-6 years. He has deteriorated both mentally and physically in this time span. We have a dependant son who is learning-disabled and funtions around the age of 12. I have lost count of the number of friends, both real-life and cyber friends, who have said "leave him" as if this is the easiest thing in the world. One former friend even declared that I had brought it all on myself because I was so stupid and not strong enough to leave him!
The trouble is, people who are not in my situation, or yours, cannot understand that those words "just leave" are so much easier said than done. In my case there are financial considerations as well as emotional factors (you cannot just switch off over 30 years of loving someone). I am the only one earning in the family and I simply cannot afford to run two homes. I would be legally obliged to support my husband if I left him. Also, he is now quite disabled by this horrible disease and I would be leaving a very sick man. Yes. it may well serve him right but I do not have it in my heart to do that (back to it being all my fault!)
How do I cope? There are no AlAnon meetings near me. I cope by coming in here and venting when things get very bad. I have tried a couple of on-line meetings but the different time zone makes it difficult (I am in UK) I also cope by detaching emotionally. I have had my own bedroom for last 3 years - my space in which I make clear he is not welcome. I try to keep things "normal" for my son by sticking to routines i.e grocery shop on Sturday, roast dinner on Sunday, etc. We also go out, son and I, like this evening - we have been to see Karate Kid and then for a pizza.
My friends also keep me going by e-mailing, texting, meeting up for lunch to have a gossip and a giggle, etc.
You are certainly not alone. So glad you have found us here. I must say the support and comfort I have found on this board and in the chat room has been phenomenal. Keep coming back - it won't solve your problems but, believe me, you will feeel better.
I hear you and understand the pain and frustration of the situation.
When I could not leave I still took care of myself. If things became dangerous I called 911. If the alcoholic becaue sick i called 911, If I became ill I called 911.
I read my literature quietly in a different room and prayed. If your brother is mentally ill and cannot protect himself then someone should be calling protective services or the hospital crisis hot lines for him (I have done that too)
Alanon meeting could help you to regain your peace. Please keep coming back.
-- Edited by hotrod on Thursday 5th of August 2010 05:06:52 PM
Welcome to MIP. I hope you find some of the peace and serenity I have found here which provided me with the ability to cope in many difficult situations. One of the best things about Alanon is that no one is in the exact same posistion at the exact same time but we do all have a common bond. The saying "take what you like and leave the rest" has always worked well for me. Over the years I have used tools and insights from others that at one time may have had no correlation to my situation but eventually pertained to my life. Like any research or learning experience having a vast array of information to choose from can be a blessing. I hope you keep coming back here and find other ways of learning this program that may work in your situation.
much love Jen
-- Edited by Jennifer on Thursday 5th of August 2010 05:53:03 PM
Garden of Mirrors wrote:Thank you. I hope this group will be able to provide some sort of comfort to people in my, and my brother's, situation.
. . .
I do not consider learning how other people have, or are, coping to be the receipt of advice. I am well able to isolate the differences in the circumstances and to recognize what might or might not work within my family.
These sound like the perfect ingredients for MIP. We are here to support you in all our different shapes and sizes without giving advice. All we can share is our experience. Your ability to "take what you want and leave the rest" means this format will be helpful for you.
This is an Internet forum. Anyone can post. I have seen a lot of posts recently that say "run for the hills!" and other such statements. I considered deleting them as they are not really in line with what we practice. But, that is censorship. They have not broken a forum rule, they simply just don't know yet. That is OK. I can only hope that as time passes they will learn how it works and not do that anymore for the sake of those that they are advising. It does upset people . . . as we are seeing now.
We are here for you and we want to help you. If you will only accept help and support from a certain set of people that meet your criteria in Al-Anon then you are limiting the help you are going to get. We understand and accept your decision. Al-Anon and MIP are wonderful resources if you allow them to be.
Tricia
-- Edited by tlcate on Thursday 5th of August 2010 07:11:41 PM
__________________
To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
Bud, you have misunderstood my meaning. I am sorry I was unclear. I welcome all experiences as input. I do not wish to limit my resources. Not at all. My reason for beginning this specific thread was to address what I, within my situation, see as a support need to be fulfilled on this site. Certainly anyone who has had experience with an alcoholic has insight to offer, but there is a very specific category within that classification from which I am able to find additional mechanisms of understanding. Please accept my apology.
There are very unique circumstances which lead to a situation where our social and legal tools are inadequate to facilitate liberating an individual from a harmful situation. This does not mean that I do not see the benefit or seek the knowledge and wisdom acquired by, and so kindly offered, by others. Nothing could be further from my intention. But I need, and am thankfully receiving, links to people who are also outside the social and legal safety net. I am sorry to know you are there, but I am glad to communicate with you because it is helpful to me and maybe for you as well.
There are people who are tied to a harmful situation due to legal limitations and the lack of access to social program options, which have been established to fit the more typical fact patterns. And sometimes the status quo is just the least terrible option. I do not know the hurt and hardship of an alcoholic spouse. I do not know the pain and heartache of an alcoholic child. What I know, and what makes my family's situation so incredibly painful, is the lack of options available to us, which serves to enable the exacerbation of our sorrow.
Never would I wish to turn away kind wishes, and never would I wish to deny myself, or anyone else who might read this thread, the benefit of the knowledge which comes with everyone's unique experiences. I am very sorry and I hope you all accept my apology. I was only trying to carve out a place on this forum for people whose options are limited by social and legal barriers from which they are not currently able to extricate themselves.
Thank you all for you kind words and support. We are very isolated in our troubles. You helped me today. Thank you. I hope that other people who are, for whatever reason, outside the traditional legal and social systemic safeguards will speak out and speak up.
After all, empathy, support and advocacy begin with the acknowledgement of a need.
I don't know if you are in another country or not?
I worked in Sp.ed for eighteen years.You stated your mother is "taking down" this person who is disabled.
This is blatant abuse. There are foster homes, group homes etc.Which you may have already started the process to get help for your brother.
It is very hard for others to support abuse. It is our nature to want to help with this.
It sounds like you are very intelligent, I have no idea how old you are. You are reaching out which is HUGE.
Sometimes we must put our situation out there, then quietly listen to what people share. It may not be what we need right now, but later we may realize it was what we needed.
It is very hard to live in dysfunction and function mirror. We cannot put a fish in a bowl of water with alcohol it too and expect the fish to live. Just not going to happen.
When we live with poison, it poisons us.
There are rehab centers for people with disabilities. Even the most profound challenged people, cp, autistic, people with these challenges who cannot talk or move much, need help with bathrooming issues, can go to rehab to just hang out to get out of the home. Most all times, transport is available.
So possibly getting away from the home as much as possible would help.If your brother is under 21, the schools MUST allow him access, and provide transport. It is a legal right.
If there is more abuse than you are sharing, please contact me in pm.
I am sad you are in this situation. The only support I can offer is to get out of the house more.
Also you are more than welcome to come here and vent anytime. To get this poison out of our system by sharing will work wonders.
You could educate yourself as far as addiction, keep coming here, we he meetings in the chat room here.
Do you need literature?
I know when my two cp kids reached 21 I was so sad, as we took them swimming, on excursions every Friday. I even got them on my horse, and onto the roller coaster with me. Two boys who could not talk or move much, but they could laugh,love, and smile.
Please keep coming back. You are safe here. You can pm me or send me emails anytime. You are not alone. love,debralyn
I was certainly in that position for a long long time. I found using the al anon tools as best I could made it bearable. Personally I would always take it really personally when people would suggest (I thought flippantly) just leave. Of course there are a huge number of obstacles to leaving. For me when the obstacles of staying outweighed the obstacles of leaving I had to make other choices. That was a long long time coming for me. I found great great solace in the chat room here, in having a sponsor (I've had more than one) and in really looking at and working the tools of detaching, getting busy, focusing on my own health and wellbeing and trying to find ways to overcome some of the obstacles. I found some and I hit many many many brickwalls.
I understand that there is a sort of "program" out there for Al-Anon members who are unable to leave their homes. It's been a long time since I've heard of it, so I can't exactly remember the terminology for it.
If you go to this page regarding electronic meetings, it does outline some suggestions for you that may be plausible in your situation, such as:
Having an Al-Anon Sponsor. A Sponsor is someone with whom a member can discuss personal problems or questions; someone who willingly shares the experience, strength, and hope of the Al-Anon program. Sponsorship, What Its All About (p-31)
Keeping in touch with other members between meetings
http://al-anon.alateen.org/grpsrvreqform.html
There are podcasts available, a subscription to the Forum magazine (commonly referred to by most members as "a meeting in your pocket"), online forums and/or meetings like MIP, email groups, telephone-only groups, etc.
I'm sure in one of those instances, you may be able to locate someone who could work as your sponsor either through emails, phone calls or message board chats. And it would also be another way to get in touch with others between regularly scheduled electronic meetings.
I hope this was helpful.
Editing my post because I read through your posts a little more clearly... or at least I think I did.
If I understand you correctly, you're really looking for specific advice? Is that it?
If that is true, then I will say that in practice in Al-Anon, we do not shell out advice on what to do regarding important life-changing events. This program is about learning to come to those decisions for yourself.
I can tell you, too, that two years ago, I was also in a situation where I felt leaving was NOT an option. And although I've come to a place now that I ended up leaving WAS the option, there is no way I'm going to sit and advise others to do what I've done. It was an extremely personal decision, and I really resented hearing statements like, "Well, if it were me, I wouldn't put up with it." How do those kind of statements help????? They didn't help me at all - they only left me feeling chided and ashamed of myself.
You will get to decide what you want to do about your relationship and living situation with your mom and your brother. Sounds to me like you're not going anywhere, and that's your right to decide.
-- Edited by Aloha on Friday 6th of August 2010 02:48:02 PM
