The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Can we get a discussion going how to detatch and how some people THINK they are detatching when they aren't? Sometimes, I go into apathy-mode when I try to detatch. Others have said they felt like they were slipping into denial when trying to detatch.
Any ideas?
BTW - the A in my life is my SIL and I never became close to her. She has always kept a distance. I don't really have any affection for her. (She is verbally abusive and neglects the kids) But I don't want to hate her or be apathetic, either.
__________________
Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace within the storm.
SmartKat, we can try and hate the disease, but not the person. That is difficult, it takes time to develop. I too had a sister in law that was an alcoholic. I was kind of ambivilant towards my SIL, Sometimes I liked her and sometimes couldn't stand her . I hated what she did to my nephew and niece. She was a nurse, a hard worker, good to my brother, but she loved her wine. The dynamics are different with female A's, I find anyway. They seem to be perfectionists, good Mothers. They seem to over compensate with their kids , Everything has to be bigger and better. Must be the guilt. But as the years went by it got worse. My brother was married to her for 25 years, while he was dealing with her. I was dealing with my XAH also.
Once I started Alanon, it was easier to detach from her and you know what, I dont even think she noticed or cared what I thought, she was too much into her disease.
Do you think your SIL really cares what you feel about her. I think its about separating the disease from the person. Realizing they are sick, and really detaching from the disease.
Thats my 2 cents for what its worth. Thanks, Bettina
My sister in law has managed to hold down a job for most of the 6 years she has lived here. That is about all I can say that is good about her.
She is extremely neglectful of the kids. One of the girls is severly autistic and is not completely potty trained. If she has an accident, the mother will usually let her sleep in her own filth. My brother gets home from work after 9 and has to wash the child, change the sheets and clean the walls. If the child leaves a trail of poopy clothes around the house, the mother won't pick them up. She will light some incense! And lasy week my mother provided 45 hours free childcare from Sunday through Friday. One Saturday she wanted to just take the child to Special olymics and bring her straight home instead of watching the child all week end, too. The mother said she would not be home to watch the child when my mom got home! So my mom found her at one of her favorite fast food places (with wifi) and delivered the child to her. The my SIL put up such a fuss someone actually called the police on her! She was screaming obcenities at my mom because she didn't want to take care of her own child!
She cares about what people think of her. She has tried hard in the past to keep up a good front. That is what was so wild about this Saturday! She showed her hateful self in front of everyone! The people at McDonalds were talking about the crazy lady who tried not to even take her own child, then rammed the car of her mother in laws! I wonder if she is losing touch with reality!
Supposedly she is not drinking. Is this just a dry drunk? Is she getting mentally ill? Or is she partaking in some more powerful substance?
Anyway, I am tempted to just hate her instead of caring but detatching.
__________________
Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace within the storm.
Well, I have detached from people to the point where there no longer in my life. They were just too toxic so I dont talk or have anything to do with them.
You do have that choice, so does your Mother, I know it would be hard because of children involved, but your sister in law is insane and out of control. You cant decide what other will do about the situation. But you can decide if it involves you.
Sometimes the Alcoholic has to loose everyone and everything. Clearly alcohol is in control here. Sorry your family is going thru all this pain and especially the children.
Wishing your family hope and strength. Luv, Bettina
I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol or some other substance were still involved. The strain of an autistic child is hard enough for anyone, but for someone whose method of coping has always been substance abuse... It's not going to be a good result.
I am so sorry your family is going through this. It's hard to be neutral and detached when children are involved. I think any feeling person would be upset. To me, detachment means not letting the foul moods of the alcoholic put me in a foul mood. But watching defenseless kids suffer -- it's just very tragic. I'm so sorry.
The strain of autism is tough enough on any parent but she was apparently a neglectful mother before the autistism.
The 2nd child didn't develop autism until about 18 months. By then the mother already demonstrated her lack of parental care. The children's bottoms were blistered with daiper rashes. She woulnd't change the diapers while my brother was at work so the kids would skin out of the diapers (the ones old enough to do so) So there would be dirty diapers scattered around the house. When my brother got home, he would walk around the house looking for dirty diapers because the mother wouldn't pick them up.
So what happens when a woman with no maternal instinct faces the added stress of an autistic child? Plus other issues I haven't gotten into yet.
__________________
Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace within the storm.
I remember I use to pray that my xah would hit bottom, maybe you can pray that something happen for a change to happen or for the best outcome for those children.
Its in the hands of her HP as crazy as that seems, but hope its soon...
First, let me reply to your request to discuss detachment. I define detachment as not taking what the A says or does personally. Also, to me detachment means not enabling the A, that is, allow them to do things for themselves and to endure the consequences of their poor choices. For me, I learned how to detach through understanding the disease and finally realizing that each of us has to take care of ourselves. I learned the difference between "helping" and "enabling." This took time and I'm still haven't mastered it.
Now, as far as your feelings for your SIL, perhaps you can learn to dislike her actions, but at the same time, have compassion for her as a person. She is quite ill and needs help.
I teach children with special needs, those that have mild to moderate disabilties. I did teach children with severe disabilities one year and one year only because it was too tough for me. One boy was severly autistic. I got to know the family well; I understand what families go through. Is their any agency that is involved? The familiy I worked with that particluar year had an agency to help them. How about the family doctor? Can he or she direct your brother to an agency?
There are innocent, helpless children involved here. Can you speak to your brother about getting outside help - professional help? What you have described is child abuse.
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Monday 7th of June 2010 11:46:14 PM
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
My mother takes care of the autistic child more than anyone now that my brother has a job. I take care of her too. Some people seem to be better equipped for caring for children like her. My sister in law doesn't seem like she is equipped with the instincts to care for one normal child.
I can have compassion for her when I suspect she is mentally ill. But then sometimes she just seems mean and selfish. Then I am just angry.
My brother has his own issues. I don't know if it is his inability to manage the paperwork maze or his refusal for there to be anyone coming into their house from the government. But they get no help.
The neglect has not happened that much because we made sure the child was not alone with the mother that much. but my mom got fed up with providing free babysitting and then treated like scum. I think the next couple weeks are a test to see if she can face up to the challenge. My mother won't be babysitting for more than a few hours a week for the next couple weeks. I think I will get my brother, mom and I together to discuss exactly what will happen next, Although it is unfair for the child to be in that situation, we have to give the mother a chance to live up to her responsibilities and that means giving her a chance to fail. So how long will we be backing off like this? Then what? I have my ideas but I am not the husband.
I don't want to tell my brother to divorce her but what should I do. If we don't step in providing more than full time child care for the child then the child is abusive (neglect) situations. So do I call CPS even though my brother is trying to care for the child? It is a mess and I just don't see a way to mind my own business without allowing a child to be in a totally unacceptable situation.
__________________
Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace within the storm.
I remember you from a long time ago. Looks like the issues have not gotten better.
Like before, we can only control ourselves. Mom is an adult, she can make her own decisions.
Same with your sister. It is sad the kids are involved. However since the problem is the same, it shows it cannot be controlled by anyone either.
For me I learned it was not my job to judge or try to fix anything.
The situation I was seeing was somewhat like this. I gave the people info, it was up to them to follow through. They didn't. The boy grew up, ended up in prison. Last I heard though he left the state to try to change his life.
Anyway detaching is different in different situations.
Since you cannot control this situation, it is up to you if you want to be involved with them or not .
Hope this gives you some perspective. This is a perfect example of if nothing is changed, nothing changes.
In general I have issues with my sister. I love her but... She is not an A but is in desperate need of Alanon as well as other emotional help. Despite the fact that her husband is sober and working his program she is doing nothing on her part to get better. She thinks that as long as he's sober all will be well.
I have tried for years to get her to go to meetings with me. It's always one excuse after another. At some point after banging my head many, many, many times against the wall I had to stop. What's the definition of insanity?
So now I let her live her life the way she chooses. I try not to judge what she does (still workinng on that one). I do love her but I just can't be around for long periods of time. She has to live her life the way she wants to. Because of her illness her impact on me was making me more crazier than usual. I had to step away. She needs to suffer the consequences of her choices and behavior.
Instead of trying to influence her and be a positive impact on her life, I have switched the focus to my nieces. I don't push Alanon on them. I just try to be there for them and answer any questions they may have. I have to live my life and let my sister live her life. That's how I detach.
It's the same way with an addict. When Tim was alive and he forgot to pay the car insurance, I didn't pay it for him. I don't drive so it was his responsibility. If he took the risk to drive w/o insurance so be it. Not my problem. I always made it clear that if he got arrested for drinking & driving the probem was his and his alone to figure out. I would bring his meds down to the jail w/doctor's instructions, but the rest was up to him to figure out.
Just because you detach doesn't mean that you don't love the person. It just means that you allowing them the diginity to make their own choices (good or bad) and live their life. You're taking care of your life w/o getting involved in all their drama.
Thanks for posting this. I needed to remind myself of what I need to do. Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
__________________
It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
All too often I have heard "I have detached from ____" I stopped taking his/her calls etc.
Detachment is not amputation! Detachment is the removal of ourselves from the consequences of the A's actions.
It is perfectly OK to love an alcoholic, if it weren't I would be one lonely person. However, if I detach myself from the consequences of their disease I can maintain my serenity.
It's pretty much like tieing your shoes... If someone else always ties your shoes for you then you will leave this earth still not knowing how to tie your own shoes. Anything I do for the A in my life that he is perfectly capable of doing for himself is not only hurting him but it is also hurting me and adding to my disease. I have to give him the dignity to learn to take care of his own "stuff" by himself without my being in his business.
__________________
Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
All too often I have heard "I have detached from ____" I stopped taking his/her calls etc.
Detachment is not amputation! Detachment is the removal of ourselves from the consequences of the A's actions.
It is perfectly OK to love an alcoholic, if it weren't I would be one lonely person. However, if I detach myself from the consequences of their disease I can maintain my serenity.
It's pretty much like tieing your shoes... If someone else always ties your shoes for you then you will leave this earth still not knowing how to tie your own shoes. Anything I do for the A in my life that he is perfectly capable of doing for himself is not only hurting him but it is also hurting me and adding to my disease. I have to give him the dignity to learn to take care of his own "stuff" by himself without my being in his business.
Amen! Well stated! Your post is a keeper in my book! Thanks
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
I know it is OK to love the alcoholic but I never got a chance to develop love for her. She always held me at a distance. I love her in the same way I love any person, even strangers. I tried to get closer to her a few times. I have tried to chat with her. She cuts me off. I told her I was proud of her when she started going to AA and decided to go to rehab. I offered to take her to lunch some day. She said OK but then I got a call from my brother saying she didn't want to and she didn't want me to call her. I was suspicious my brother was trying to come between us for his own selfish reasons (he is quite dysfunctional as well) so I called her and she basically confirmed she didn't want to associate with me. So I don't have any real love for her. I just don't want to hate her or have apathy.
__________________
Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace within the storm.
For me, detaching and stop enabling are two different things though they go hand in hand.
For me, detaching is not getting overwhelmed emotionally and sacrificing yourself and your happiness. I may stop enabling someone, doing things for them they are completely capable of doing themselves, but I may still be tied up in knots over the fact they are living the lives they are.
Here is my example. I was married, he wasn't an A, but his ex wife was a drug addict. She had 50% custody and we paid her a nice chunk of money every month as she was "disabled" (read too strung out to work). My husband had a serious issue with conflict. He was doing nothing to get this resolved so I jumped in with both feet. I paid his legal bills, got a new lawyer, push push push for years to get this resolved. Lost court cases, keep pushing. On the surface, it sounds great. I was supporting my husband. I was doing what was right for his kid - as the kid was exposed to all kinds of nasty things over there. BUT . . . I was emotionally consumed by it. I was angry, I lashed out at his lack of initiative, my anger affected the kids, and ultimately ruined my marriage.
I would do the ACTIONS over again. It needed to be done for my family and it was the right thing to do. In the end we won. My husband got full custody and amazingly the ex got clean and went out and got two jobs. But I lost my marriage. I let the anger at the situation take over my happiness, the happiness in my home, and the happiness in my relationship. I could have detached, done the next right thing, and let go of the results. I could have kept loving my family, my husband, and being grateful for what I had and not let this thing eat me alive.
Just my take. Good luck with this. Watching children suffer is a really hard thing to do, ignoring it is even harder. If I were you I would detach. I would let go of the anger and judgement as you have no control. Focus on the solution. Is there anything you can do? Call CPS, talk to you brother - whatever. If the answer is no - there is nothing you can do. Let it go! I KNOW, it sounds easier than it is. But it is possible. After I did my 4th & 8th steps and stopped blaming my exH for the demise of our marriage and saw that it was actually my fault - I saw the TRUE value of detaching. I lost the one true love of my life - that is a really huge cost.
Tricia
__________________
To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
For me, detaching and stop enabling are two different things though they go hand in hand.
For me, detaching is not getting overwhelmed emotionally and sacrificing yourself and your happiness. I may stop enabling someone, doing things for them they are completely capable of doing themselves, but I may still be tied up in knots over the fact they are living the lives they are.
Here is my example. I was married, he wasn't an A, but his ex wife was a drug addict. She had 50% custody and we paid her a nice chunk of money every month as she was "disabled" (read too strung out to work). My husband had a serious issue with conflict. He was doing nothing to get this resolved so I jumped in with both feet. I paid his legal bills, got a new lawyer, push push push for years to get this resolved. Lost court cases, keep pushing. On the surface, it sounds great. I was supporting my husband. I was doing what was right for his kid - as the kid was exposed to all kinds of nasty things over there. BUT . . . I was emotionally consumed by it. I was angry, I lashed out at his lack of initiative, my anger affected the kids, and ultimately ruined my marriage.
I would do the ACTIONS over again. It needed to be done for my family and it was the right thing to do. In the end we won. My husband got full custody and amazingly the ex got clean and went out and got two jobs. But I lost my marriage. I let the anger at the situation take over my happiness, the happiness in my home, and the happiness in my relationship. I could have detached, done the next right thing, and let go of the results. I could have kept loving my family, my husband, and being grateful for what I had and not let this thing eat me alive.
Just my take. Good luck with this. Watching children suffer is a really hard thing to do, ignoring it is even harder. If I were you I would detach. I would let go of the anger and judgement as you have no control. Focus on the solution. Is there anything you can do? Call CPS, talk to you brother - whatever. If the answer is no - there is nothing you can do. Let it go! I KNOW, it sounds easier than it is. But it is possible. After I did my 4th & 8th steps and stopped blaming my exH for the demise of our marriage and saw that it was actually my fault - I saw the TRUE value of detaching. I lost the one true love of my life - that is a really huge cost.
Tricia
Yes, if one doesn't deal with the emotional component, one is doomed. I totally agree. Good post. Excellent example. I'm so sorry you lost the love of your love.
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt