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I'm scared for a million reasons regarding my A but the thought of him hurting me physically is haunts me.....
The mental abuse was of course getting "progressively" worse and I know in my heart in due time it was bound to get physical... The day where I had enough of his binge drinking he locked me in the bedroom and said "i just want to punch you in your face" I saw it in his eyes that he meant it...
With that being said... I'm having a hard time following the steps of Al anon = ( I'm trying to detach, to set up boundaries, etc.. I have a child with this person and of course care deeply about him but I don't know if I can ever forgive for the hell he put me/us through these last 3 years.. I feel NO compassion for him only anger and resentment and I know I need to let these feelings go in order to help myself...
I hate this diease for robbing my A of a good life...
Thanks for letting me share..
FYI - A girl in my city was just killed by her boyfriend and it triggered a lot of fear in me...
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
I don't think Alanon recommends anyone trying to detach and set up boundaries with someone that is posing a threat to them. Please take care of your child and yourself before anything happens to you.
I have seen the "Look" you refer to and it is unsettling and is not easily forgotten!!!
If I remember correctly you currently have a Restraining orderout on your partner and that is exactly what you must continue to remember and enforce.
I know you would love for this all to go away and eveyrthing to be back to normal We all wished for that!!!
Right now you must allow yourself to feel your feelings and verbalize them . You cannot get to forgiveness without feeling the loss, the anger, the sadness, the fear caused by this disease. Once you have worked thru this we are ready to Let it Go and compassion comes. The program is a process.
JUst keep showing up, focus on yourself and your safety. Share, Live ODAT and it will get better.
No it doesn't and this is what confuses me "it's the diease" so how am I suppose to have any compassion for the A since its not his choice to do these things?!??!
Can anyone relate to me = ( I do so good in the beginning and now I'm consumed with anger...
I come on here and hear "it's not their fault it's the diease" comparing it to cancer, diabeties...
I also see "my A would cry his eyes out when he would drink it would destroy him"..... Awe how sad, right? THEN you hear, excuses, excuses, excuses that is definitely an A at work, crying, making us feel sorry for them...
Can someone PLEASE say, Deana, I know how you feel you are at this point in the program = ( OR tell me what I'm doing wrong?
Gailey wrote:
(((Hopeless)))
I don't think Alanon recommends anyone trying to detach and set up boundaries with someone that is posing a threat to them. Please take care of your child and yourself before anything happens to you.
Gail
-- Edited by Hopeless on Monday 7th of June 2010 10:41:04 AM
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
Here is my 2 cents..... The reason there seems to be mixed messages is because there is no ONE way to deal with this disease. Just like there is not just one medicine for diabetics or one antibiotic for infections there is not just one 'perfect' way to deal with an A. The admonition to "TAKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND LEAVE THE REST" is exactly that... use what feels right and works in your situation and FORGET the rest... don't let it clutter your head. In the case of physical abuse... for me personally.. all bets are off and physical safety is my #1 priority PERIOD. Only when I would be sure I was totally physically safe would I then look at what type of contact I wanted if any with the offender. and about the name change thing.... what about hopelessnolonger? <wink>
hugs and healing, donna/adonaisgirl
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One Day at a Time I am POWERLESS but not HOPELESS Be sure to BREATHE and SMILE!!!
I'm looking to follow a path and each one I follow I get stuck.... I just have to make my own path and use MY tools rather steal the tools from someone else..
I need a boxing bag so I can beat the crap out of it when I feel this angry, lol!
-- Edited by Hopeless on Monday 7th of June 2010 11:05:41 AM
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
I've felt frustrated and confused at different points in my recovery. Maybe some of the messages aren't really mixed, but are put out there by people at lots of different points in their own recoveries. Just my .02, if it helps - and if not, just disregard.
I've been angry lots of times! LOTS. For me, I bottled up the anger so many times that when it came out finally, it pretty much exploded. I had just gone along pretending things were fine when they weren't for so long and couldn't do it anymore. I think feeling the feelings and processing them is a good sign. A boxing bag sounds like a GREAT idea, too!!!
Also, for me, recognizing alcoholism as a disease does NOT mean that the A gets a free pass for all the crap he or she does. I took a lot of verbal abuse from my AH when he was drinking. At one point, I kicked him out because I couldn't deal with the BS anymore. When he got sober, we had to work on all the things that happened during the relapse. We're still in counseling now. For me, believing that my AH has a disease helps me to be compassionate for my AH's experience and to realize how he got where he is (and how I got where I am, too, as I grew up with an alcoholic mother). It helps me to reinforce my belief that I did not cause his alcoholism, cannot cure it, and can't control it. My belief that alcoholism is a disease does NOT mean that he has my permission to walk all over me or to treat me badly, and that I will just shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh poor baby, he has a disease." NO WAY.
On the subject of compassion, it took me a long time to get there. I didn't have any compassion for my ex AH until about 3 years after we were divorced. I had anger and fear for my safety, like you have described.
-- Edited by White Rabbit on Monday 7th of June 2010 11:40:42 AM
I was once stuck in a corner of my bedroom "I want to punch you in the face" were the words I heard. I saw the look you talked about maybe more than once but that is the image that got burned into my memory. Having a restraining order is a good start. There are different safety measures to take vary your schedule, different daily routes, keep emergency bag in the trunk or outside somewhere, practice fire drills with the kids to have a get out plan without them knowing all the reasons why. Whenever I had to think of the best ways to protect myself I used Sarah Conner in "Terminator 2" as my role model. She had to keep the world's hope for peace safe by learning every tactic she could. She was a great inspiration for working out too. LOL Physical abuse is not something to mess around with as the news report in your community shows, do what you have to do to feel safe and be safe.
My thoughts on thinking of alcoholism as a disease. It is a disease, but I too have a hard time with the comparison to cancer or diabetes etc. I found it was easier for me to think of as a disorder such as untreated schizophrenia unlike physical diseases these truly change the person against thier will and hide the person underneath. With treatment they can be the person you know and love without treatment they can not and not by thier own choice. Physical diseases like mine just do not usually make people into someone else as alcoholism did in my situation. Although I must say I can understand the concept of my xAh's disease I do not accept his choice and consequences of not keeping up treatment.
My thoughts on forgiving my xAh. Patience lots of patience, it took me 15 years to get to the point where I could not live with him and forgive him. I had a high tolerance of pain and abuse or so therapy says Forgiving is still coming very slowly but at one time I thought I never would. Somewhere along the way I found I needed to forgive myself for allowing me to live that life which has helped me to find forgiveness for others also. It takes time and like all good things in life if rushed it just isn't as good.
Take what you need and leave the rest. In choosing which slogan, meditation topic, step there is confusion and some mixed messages. I find it better to have too much information than not enough. Some things I once thought were never going to apply to me now do, some thoughts I wanted to hold on to forever no longer help me as they once did. I had some dificulty at times having the freedom to choose, it had been awhile since I had choices. Nice thing is you can pick up and put down whatever you want to work at any time. The messages that do not apply to me right now may in the future and are probably helping alot of others presently.
I'm sorry you are in that scary place right now. I was there just a little while ago when I thought my xAh was getting out of prison. Now I have a sense of security for a little while longer knowing he is somewhere and not able to decide coming here is a good idea one night. Stay safe.
Jen
-- Edited by Jennifer on Monday 7th of June 2010 03:51:07 PM
For me, I am not one for excuses. Not for my A'ism and not for anyone else's. Not for my bad behavior or anyone elses. I have done some CRAZY stuff drunk - do I think that makes me a bad person? No. But I picked up the drink, I did horrible things, and I have to live with that - I am accountable for that. I expect forgiveness from no one. I can say the people who have understood and were willing to forgive have helped me a lot in my recovery. But, if I keep up my bad behavior, cross their boundaries and cause them pain then they have every right to push me out of their lives and stop tolerating it. Even if I don't continue my bad behavior - anyone at anytime has the right to not deal with me anymore, it is out of my control!
That said. I feel that when you adopt compassion for those in your life, you are doing it for YOU, not for them. You are not letting them off the hook, you are relieving YOUR pain and suffering. I understand SOOO much the feeling of wanting them to understand what they are doing, the destruction and pain they are causing. I also understand the need to have them pay in some way - feel your pain - make amends. While this is very common, it is a wish. Truly. It is something that many of us do not receive and sitting and wishing for it, hurting over it, only hurts us. Being angry is like taking poison and hoping the other person dies.
I can't necessarily say that I have reached forgiveness for the wrongs I have suffered in my past, but I have reached acceptance. These people are who they are and do what they do. I accept that. If I choose to be upset about it, let it stay in my stomach and cause knots, that is a choice I make for myself. If I continue to let them hurt me, again . . . that is my choice. I KNOW that each situation is different and some stay, some go, some find a middle ground - whatever needs to be done in the dynamic you are in. The point is to find a place where YOU are at peace.
It is OK to be angry and it is understandable. For me, now that I am practicing Al-Anon tools, when I am angry I realize the discomfort and I want it to go away and I also realize I am the only one who can do that. It happens. I vent. I don't understand others and get frustrated, throw a tantrum as Jerry says, cry, scream, yell. Then I accept it. I let it pass. It is good to get it out. I also try to take my anger to safe sources and not to those causing me the anger. We are one of those. Keep it coming!! Vent all you need.
The nice thing about Al-Anon is you don't have to accept that it is a disease. I am on the fence. I don't believe I have a disease, I believe I have an addiction. I believe I lost control to alcohol and still give control to cigarettes. Then I see some really hard core alcoholics. Their body is DEPENDENT on alcohol. They are dying because of it. If they stop they are going to get really sick and if they continue they are going to die. I think that does fall under the disease category. It may be a self-inflicted disease, but none the less now their body is suffering. That is my opinion and Al-Anon lets me have that. No one can tell me I am right or wrong, well they can - but I don't have to believe it or care. You just need to find what is comfortable and acceptable to you to start taking care of yourself and find serenity. If you want to believe that alcoholism is 100% a choice, then that is your decision. It is what you do with that, how much you harbor and let eat away at you, that dictates your success in this program. Whatever belief that will help you take the focus off of him and put it on yourself is the one you need to grab onto. If you want to believe he has been take over by aliens and they are making him drink, if that is what will help you accept that he is what he is and you have no control, then believe that! I am not trying to make light of the situation, I am trying to make a point.
Just my take. REALLY big hug. I hope you take care of yourself and keep you and the children safe.
Please keep coming back. We are here for you - with all of our differing opinions - we are still focused on one goal - the hope that you will find happiness and stop suffering and that we do as well.
Tricia
-- Edited by tlcate on Monday 7th of June 2010 12:53:36 PM
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To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
My understanding of it is that there are many factors that go into alcoholic behavior. I had a boyfriend with epilepsy, which was of course not his fault. But he used it to demand special privileges -- "You have to drive to the store at 11 pm to get me a Coke because I can't drive because I have epilepsy." No understanding what was reasonable to ask for, no boundaries. "I don't want to fly because it's too cramped, so you must drive me the 2000 miles to go visit my parents." There's an underlying physical problem and then there are the choices the person makes. We can have compassion for the underlying problem, but we can still hold them responsible for their choices.
My experience is that the anger was helpful to me because it gave me distance, and also the realization that I had been treated badly. Once I had some distance well established and was getting my own life back on track, the anger began to lessen. I didn't have to force it; it just happened. I think a big part of it was that my life was changing and the consequences of the drinking weren't in my face every day.
Not all alcoholics are abusive and not all abusers are alcoholics. If you are being abused, if you feel threatened then you need to find the strength within yourself to do what you need to do to stay safe. That might mean calling the police, moving, changing locks, going totally no contact with him, and protecting the kids at ALL COSTS.
For me, this program did NOT work with my ex AH. He was abusive and there is no detaching from abuse. It is impossible. Abuse is about control. Alcoholism is about the disease. An alcoholic desires nothing more than his next drink. An abuser desires nothing more than to control his partner (and/or the kids).
You need to stay safe. All abuse escaltes over time. Please, call your local domestic violence center. They have answers to all of your questions. And use this program to take care of YOU...
The program tells us first and foremost to "Always Take Care Of Yourself First". Nothing, absolutely nothing justifies abuse be it verbal or physical. When the disease is in control the man you loved and the father of your children is not in control. Protect yourself. Ask yourself what would you do and what action would you take if it was a complete stranger who threatened you in that manner?
As a father having a daughter close to your age that I raised as a single parent from the time she was 9 years old, I would only hope she would take the action she needed under simular circumstances......and not tell me the threat took place until sometime later.......if you know what I mean.......because no one has ever asked me to sing in a choir......and I have never been in jail. LOL.
As a father having a daughter close to your age that I raised as a single parent from the time she was 9 years old, I would only hope she would take the action she needed under simular circumstances......and not tell me the threat took place until sometime later.......if you know what I mean.......because no one has ever asked me to sing in a choir......and I have never been in jail. LOL.
HUGS, RLC
lol.... Thank you I needed that!
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
I was where you are right now 2 years ago. I know your fear. Remember to protect yourself and your child. You have many options. No one should live in fear. I waited many years for my husband to get the help he needed, he didn't, I walked. I hope you do not have to make that decision, but please look after yourself. Remember you deserve to be happy.
I think we are in about the same place. I am starting to accept the disease part, but I can't get over the hurt of what happened because of the disease. I know it's up to me to let it go, because it really doesn't matter if he says sorry. It might matter if he could show me he is sorry...but I know that it will take YEARS before I work through the hurt. When I read your posts I often feel like I could have been the one writing them. At this point I can't figure out how on earth I will ever fully trust him again, how I will ever forget some of the things he has said and done, etc. I have been attending Al-Anon for only 4 months and I really look forward to going, but sometimes I leave feeling just as confused as when I first started. And I understand about the seemingly mixed messages...like I am supposed to detach, yet show him loving support...so do I let him stay here when he is recovering, or do I make him do it on his own?! I don't know!!!!
If anything, I hope this email brings some comfort b/c I really "get" a lot of what you are saying. Hang in there. I'll be thinking of you.
Nooooo! Abuse nor cheating is a symptom of addiction! They abuse because they are an abuser, they cheat because they are a cheater.
Lets say someone grew up being abused. They got older and went to counseling and learned and lived all they could with the tools available so they don't abuse. BUT they are an addict, this lowers their inhibitions so then they have a better chance of abusing or cheating.
You are never an abuser or cheater just because you are A.
Totally different issues.
Alanon would never support anything that put anyone in harms way.
There are domestic abuse hotllines. Feel comfy to call one! I went to a group years ago.
PLEASE trust your instincts. You are feeing fear for a reason. Listen and protect yourself. This is what made me know the A and I were not ever going to live together again no matter what.
Please, protect you and the kids. I invite you to call someone now. If you need help, email me and I will find you a number.
I disagree Lyndebi, alcohol and drugs are mind altering, there are things that addicts do when they are drunk or high , that they wouldnt do if they were sober.
It really doesnt matter anyway, what issues are what, if you are being threatened and the person is endangering your life then you have to to take action. Is there a safe place you can go to. Do you have a plan if your threatened. You must create a plan .
Restraining orders do nothing, they are just a piece of paper. The police only come if the perpetrator is on the property . I had a restraining order against my first husband and he managed to kidnap my daughter and hide her for years. The law doesnt always protect women.
Hopeless you are describing a past event that happened to you. What is going on exactly at this time that you feel so threatened. You must be in close communication with the police, so they know your situation and are aware of your husband. Too add, just because we are trying to follow a program to help us cope with the addict, it doesnt mean your senses take leave and you lose all common sense. I no longer live with A and I intend to stay that way, thats what works for me. As far as Im concerned everything the addict does is abusive, they are very passive agressive people that play mind games, thats also abuse.
Hopeless, nobody is telling you that you have to stay with the alcoholic husband, this is your decision. Would you stay with an abusive husband if he didnt drink? Same rules. You were saying that you found that its a choice for them to drink, I said its a matter of responsibility not to want to drink. If they are given a choice, they will always choose to drink, until the A understands that they are responsible for there life and to stop blaming the environment, people and places, their addiction will continue. I wish you courage and strength and protection. Hugs, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Monday 7th of June 2010 08:30:36 PM
You have reason to be angry and fearful. Everyone is at a different place or step in the program, and I believe we all find our answers here if we work at it. The answers may be different for each individual.
If you feel threatened by the presence of the A....doesn't that tell you something about First Things First?
(((Hopeless)))) you are not alone; take care of you first, please.
I feel you misunderstood my point. Abusing and cheating are not symptoms of being an addict.
I believe you and I are actually saying the same thing. You know how people will want to use so they can be themselves. The self they keep contained until they use.
If you are not either, mind altering or not, chances are you won't have a desire to do either.
My experience is when addicts use, it brings out things that are already there. Things just like you said they would not do sober, they can hold them back then.
I am from the sixties and have seen it all my life.
Even if I were wrong, I feel Hopeless is involved with a dangerous person, just going by what she has shared. In my old ladiness, lol I have learned it can never hurt to trust your intuitions.
It is a very hard one to really know isn't it? I appreciate your not agreeing with me. Always makes me think. I like that, I learn too. love,debilyn
I clearly remember thinking and feeling all of the thoughts you describe in this post. I did not understand the alanon messages; I felt they were confusing, gave mixed messages, and they did not apply to me. When I tried to apply them, it just didn't seem to fit or work.
After several months, I left alanon for many years, but returned last summer. Now it is falling into place and I've been able to start really working the program. I wish I never left. I believe if you keep coming back, you will start having clarity and feel less and less confused about the messages. I am a late bloomer and it took more than the recommended 6 months. However, I have returned because I could not find the help I need anywhere else.
Like you, my (now) exHA was physically and mentally abusive. It is so important to develop a thorough safety plan for you and the children. Please PM me if you would like help or a sounding board for this. The fear was overwhelming, to say the least. I still have fear, but, by focusing on myself, it is not nearly as great.
I had difficulty thinking about addiction as a disease. I was so angry and hurt. Maybe we come to our own conclusions, but the alanon tool of thinking of addiction as a disease does help separate the behaviors from the person. I had experienced the dichotomy of the Dr. Jeckyl- Mr. Hyde effect for many years and found the uncertainty of who I would be dealing with minute to minute very anxiety evoking. I didn't buy the explanation for many years.
I've come to accept the idea of it being a disease more recently and it helps me release the anger and be more accepting of the craziness without getting as involved with it. I forgave my exHA but do not excuse his behavior or actions, and, I no longer feel weighted down by them.
I'm sure there are many paths to recovery; we can select what we need to help us as we go. I try not to think of how my exHA and I were robbed, but more about the opportunity that lies ahead. My exHA remarried a few weeks ago and started on a new life path. While I am tremendously saddened that things did not work out the way I wanted them to, I am taking steps toward my own path and starting a new journey.
It's all a process, Hopeless. Be gentle with you. Please keep coming back- this program does work!
-- Edited by bud on Tuesday 8th of June 2010 07:23:52 AM
Thank you for all the replies It means a lot! I don't fully understand Al anon but I'm still going to give it 100% since I obviously need it....
I do have a plan in action the first time he did this to me I got intouch with DAP (Domestic Abuse Project ) in my area, this is when we still lived together... They gave me advice as far as my back up plan in case of an emergency. The second time it happen I just called the police and went from there.
I think I've felt sorry for him for so long but this last episode was my ENOUGH I was sick and tired of being somebodies punching bag... I realized that I stayed too long and trying to make it work for the kids was just back firing on me..
I have A LOT to learn and I'm going to reach out again to DAP to see what my options are. As of right now I'm going to see if I can get the kids on CHIP (insurance through the state) since I pay almost $400 a month... I also just got a promotion so that helps and I'm going to sell the car he drove (it was in my name and never paid a cent for it) so there goes another payment.
It's funny/sad I don't think the person I feel in love with ever existed.... I've realized that I constantly made excuses for his behaviour (which I truly believed).. I've never had to deal with an A before so this was all new to me! I don't even think he realizes how mentally and physically abusive he is and to me that is even more disturbing...
-- Edited by Hopeless on Tuesday 8th of June 2010 08:36:05 AM
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
Forgiving is still coming very slowly but at one time I thought I never would. Somewhere along the way I found I needed to forgive myself for allowing me to live that life which has helped me to find forgiveness for others also. It takes time and like all good things in life if rushed it just isn't as good.
Thank you I needed that!