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I am sure this has to have come up in posts along the way. I cannot seem to locate a way to search so I figure I would post and maybe someone can shed some light on things.
I am not a prude by any stretch of the imagination. I am however, clear on how I want to be treated. Respect is important to me. Sex is more emotional than just a means to a fulfill a need. I am perfectly capable of meeting my own needs if I need to. I don't want to. I have a partner. I share a bed with him. I should not just be the blow up doll for his sole pleasure.
When we were together the first time (5 years) things were smoking hot. He learned every inch of me, learned what pleased me, showered me with affection and lovely words and acted on his knowledge of me. His goal was often to only pleasure me. Which of course paid him huge rewards because I wanted and desired to return the favor/love.
Now it is 98% of the time all about him and him only. There is no romance. There is no foreplay. He states over and over how my DUTY is daily BJ's. I have told him when you make it a duty you remove all the fun and desire and replace it with a chore, a feeling of slavery, a feeling of being lower than a hooker. He fails to get that at all! He gets angry and wonders why I am not following his orders?!?!
We have a week to go before he goes into surgery. A very dangerous heart surgery. I have always taught my children to conduct themselves with the mind set that tomorrow may never come. To be kind and loving because you never know when you find yourself losing someone and not being able to correct the wrongs.
Since he stopped drinking two weeks ago his labido and 'staying' power has super improved! That is all great and wonderful in my mind. We had a couple of really nice old time actual love making, sessions. I was thrilled! That guy I fell in love with was back!
WRONG! That only lasted the first week. Then the ugly mouth started back up and he cannot understand my withdrawl. I have tried to explain that you cannot insult me all evening long and then come to bed and expect me to feel the least bit interested in sex when you can't even say your sorry. I am not your concubine. I am the woman you are SUPPOSED To love.
So we talked a lot last night. I tried to be kind and loving and explain that this is the LAST day before his surgery that we are going to fight. I cannot take it anymore. I want to be kind and feel loved. We are both stressed to the gills and enough is enough. He agreed to a lot of what we talked about.
Then he did it again this morning. I now realize I am living with a 15 year old boy, not a grown man. I was ASLEEP. My back is still out and I am still moving slowly. He starts by physically rolling me over towards him. I tell him to be careful, slow down, it hurts to move. There are no kisses. No kind words. No soft touch. No gentle waking. It is flip me over to face him, yank my hand down to his ****** and force my hand there. I pull it away slowly and tell him to slow down a bit. He forces my hand again. I pull it away again and again tell him to slow down, I am not fully awake, please stop being so aggressive. He forces my hand AGAIN!
It is 6 am. Our bedroom door is OPEN. My daughter wakes in about 15 minutes and is just down the hall. These are the thought going through my head. I am still not totally awake either. I feel insulted. I feel violated. I feel used.
I finally tell him "STOP THAT!" He is furious shoves me back to my side of the bed, cusses me out and gets dressed and out of bed.
I try to talk reasonably with him. I ask him to shut the door. I ask him to calm down. I ask him to understand that I am not fully awake and that I NEED him to take things slower. I am not unwilling to make love.
He proceeds to tell me that he knows his role is to pay all the bills, take care of all of MY problems, pay for everything and to never have sex. He storms out of the room.
Just before he leaves I try in vain to get him to understand. I actually told him he was acting like a 13 year old horny teenager that does not know better. I know that was not the right thing to say.
I also know that it made me feel violated. My mind jerks me back to the past 9 months of just being used for sex. I felt angry. I felt hurt. I felt humiliated. Most of all I felt UNLOVED.
I still got out of bed. I still put together his lunch and snack. I sat down at my computer next to him and acted like nothing had happened. I refuse to do battle anymore. I can be loving and kind and respectful even if my blood is boiling at the indignity of what had just happened. I refuse to engage.
I am deeply hurt and disturbed this morning. In my mind, as I taught my children, this is NOT right. I want to spend what could very realistically be his last week alive, being LOVING. Making LOVE. Laughing. Being kind to each other.
I suppose I could have just gone along with HIS demands, needs, desires and stuffed down the horror I felt at how he was being. He would whistle on his merry way to work and I would be left hollow, violated and angry. I chose to stand my ground. Which makes me a frigid, bitch. << his words not mine.
Am I alone in this? I am assuming sexual dysfunction goes hand in hand with being a drunk. The ego mania is absurd to me. I get that he is a man and I am a woman and we tend to have different ideas about sex. I have been VERY clear on the emotional, loving, caring CONNECTION that I desire.
Yes, I am also a survivor of sexual abuse. I questioned myself after he left as to whether I am the one that is abnormal and if this is my baggage.
I am also proud of myself for realizing I did not like what was happening and standing up for myself.
I also feel totally off balance and insane that I am even posting this. I just need to know that I am not alone. I am not crazy. Or maybe I need to hear that I was wrong in my reaction. Crap!! I am confuddled this morning!
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"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
Hmmm oh boy have I been there minus the impending heart surgery.
I met my ex husband, also my "A" when I was 19. He was not my first, but I was with him the longest and for a time had the best sexual relationship I have ever had with a man. He knew exactly what I liked and made sure I got it and vice versa.
I tried so hard to not let the disease rob this of me. I tried to ignore the glazed look in his eyes, the smell of booze or pot on his breath, I tried to be turned on by his desire even though it wasn't presented in the way I wanted, I tired to ignore the feelins that I was cheating on the man that I loved with the man that he was at the time. But in the end I couldn't try anymore.
I too was abused as a child. When he would come at me with his I have a need now do your job wife attitude he turned into my abuser in my head. The second he touched me I was that little girl all over again. At times I allowed him to use me and I can remember crying while he was having sex with me. Wondering how that could be a turn on to him. There were also times when I would say no and well he didn't "hear" me.
Sex becaome a chore I hated. A chore I would do anything to not have to do. I would gladly give him money to go by his beer or pot so he would be too involved in that to want to give into that need of his.
He called me a Frigid B**** and for a time I believed him. But I don't have to believe his lies about me. I am a very passionate person and a woman who really does enjoy a true physically intimate realtionship with a the man that I love.
When I refused to be touched I was taking care of me. His words meant nothing to me (granted they still hurt) because they weren't the truth. I felt better by saying no and sticking to it than giving in feeling cheap and dirty when he was done.
At the end of our marriage we would go months without being intimate. It was hard, but I was taking care of me. I wanted what we had back at the beginning. I wanted to go back to the times when we just could keep our hands off of each other and a simple wink was sometimes all it took. But the disease robbed us of this and robbed me of a great man.
Today I am focusing on me and making some changes that I want/need to make in me and am busy becoming the person I want to attract.
Your say your guy has quit drinking because of the surgery. Drinking is just a symptom of the disease. If he isn't really addressing the issue, then nothing is going to be different.
I am sure you both are scared and it is always easiest to take that kind of pain out on someone you love.
Keep focsuing on you. Do you go to meetings? Work with a sponsor?
Remember the 3 C's....You didn't Cause it, you can't Control it and you can't Cure it.
You're not alone. Our paths are not exactly the same, but you're not alone.
Yours in recovery, Mandy
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
I think confusion about sexual issues does come up very often when ur with an A. A's are emotionally unavilable - so when we look to them for normalcy and a "normal" repsonse - we arent going to find it. You do also have your own issues with whatver u went through with the sexual abuse that is in your past. Standing up for us - when we are confronted with abuse (mistreatment) is very vital and important to you recovering and healing with the past. To me, that is what boundaries are all about - me being able to act on my own behalf and not tolerate the untolerable.
Of course he doesnt understand ur point of view, as I understand it men in general can seperate their physical need from intimacy/emotions.
Ive never been sexually abused and I can lose the desire very easily, depending on what happens. If someone pushed and pulled on me, was not romantic or thoughtful/gentle and selfish - I would not at all be interested either. You are not crazy or alone! I like the door locked and that is just how it goes, lol. I need to do what I need to do, so I can feel comfortable to relax sexually. Any "demand" on me - would guarantee it wouldnt happen (yes, I tend to be passive agggressive, lol) but it just wouldnt work or go anywhere with me.
Reminds me of my exAH, waking me up on Friday nights bc "I am his companion" and should be up to entertain and talk to him all night long. ugh, ok -well I did hair and saturdays were the heaviest longest most hectic days - it was like two work days in one. So I would be irritable, exhausted and not do my job as well as I could have. He neverl let up, I did leave him a long time ago - but demanding I talk to him and keeping me from sleep - was cruel and unusual punsihment. No, he never tried to be sexual bc at that exhausted state, I probably would have gotten violent, ugh. Another issue of mine Im still working on.
YOU're not alone and ur not crazy. It is not your job or duty to do anything against your will. That is abuse, to me. Create boundaries as u need to and follow through for you, you are the only person that can know what you need. Kudos, u are worth standing up for!
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Aloha Fuzzy...What you have learned and now know is real and you have learned so much in a short time about addiction and all other aspects of life. Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical. When the person starts to drinking alcoholically they stop growing mind, mood, spirit and emotions and most times its as if they have regressed. Alcohol like sex is a "nerve ending" disease; nerve ending because the alcoholic is seeking their own pleasure and he will use alcohol and he will use you to arrive at that end. Drinking also provides a climax and so it's about the nerve ending climax and nothing else is as important. Sorry you are not being loved...you are being sexed and there is not love involved. That was a very intense lesson for me from both sides of the issue. Doesn't sound like he understands what loving and being loved in return is all about. As long as he is looking for the high its about him and what he wants to happen to him. Also it is about power and control. When you are taking back your own power and control he is feeling less than after all the original lesson is that he stands before you and you are supposed to take a subservient position or what I have come to recognize as the BJ position. It is demeaning and it is also one of my major apologies and amends to the women in my life before I got into Al-Anon. This isn't called a "Sick" disease for nothing.
A "No!" from you now is powerful!! Taking yourself back and evaluating and affirming yourself is courageous!! I've watch it happen so many times before from the women (and guys) in Al-Anon and I personally call it miraculous and allow it all to mentor me. I am grateful for you post. Maybe it isn't for everyone but it certainly is for me.
"Love cannot exist without some dimension of justice"...From another Al-Anon member during my recovery in the 80ies. WoW!! (((((hugs)))))
Let him learn to love HP, then himself and he will learn to love you.
He has only been sober for 2 weeks - he is stark raving sober , every fiber of his being screaming for alcohol , this is a selfish disease it is a ME disease and his needs are the only thing that matter at the moment . You had every right to say NO to his agressive behavior, you deserve respect and have a right to ask for it . Trying to reason with a newly sober alcoholic is a waste of time , you have set a boundary for your relationship , stick to it and your going to be fine .. Get the focus back on yourself -- and take care of you.
I got goosebumps and tears reading your reply. I feel like The Who's in Whoville..."WE ARE HERE, WE ARE HERE, WE ARE HERE!!"
There is a song that is being blasted constantly on the radio lately....."According to you" By Orianthi
I hear it and it makes me batty! This is me! Only the 'other' guy is MY guy from the past that I so dearly miss. The man I know is inside there somewhere. The one I fell in love with.
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"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
I do know how you feel too. I felt raped a couple times. I also had a great relationship, a man I was totally in love with. My husband I knew all my life.
Mine had a brain surgery. He never came back. Woke up a monster. STill is.
It is so sad you are going thru this. sadly it is a story we have heard here lots. So please know you are not alone. I am glad you felt comfy enough to come here and share!
2 weeks of not drinking means zero. There are a bunch of other addict symptoms that are still there. He is probably worse this way.
You are right. Did he start using in his teens? If so he is a teenager.
Please keep coming back.
This disease is horrible. just gets worse and worse.
This could be me as well, although you have been able to put into words what up until now I have only been feeling in my heart. I too am a Frigid B with an itch, must be having an affair with another man, etc etc etc because I will not drop to my knees on his command and pleasure him. I will not roll over whever he wants so he can have what he desires, after calling me names and being passive aggressive with me all night long. I recoil at his touch now, pray that he falls alseep on the couch so I can sneek up to bed and not have to deal with the groping and the immediately following temper tantrum when I am not all over him. There is no love making happening on his part, just sex. I will not stand for it. And our marriage is suffering, but lack of sex is not the cause, i am not the cause, the disease is. I cannot wait for the spare bedroom to be finished so I can move in there. But it feels like this is a never ending death spiral.. the more he demands, the more I refuse, the less 'loved' and 'worshipped' he feels, the more his drinks, the more I recoil..the farther we grow apart. No amount of counselling can help this though. as it all stems from the untreated alcholism he refuses to address.... So sad.. I am there with you.. Stand Strong.. You are not the problem. And I was not abused as a child, so I can only imagine how much worse this must feel for you.. ((Hugs)). We do not deserve this. But the only thing worse would be to simply submit and feel abused as well as unloved....
I think everyone can relate to the sexual problems that an active A can bring into the relationship, just one more thing to add to the quagmire. I think there's a book called "Blueprint in progress" I purchased it a long time ago, it address the sexual issues . I dont know if that book is still around.
I have many years with the A, was married 26 years. Not anymore. Became a job to have sex with the A and also there were so many nites he wasnt home. It didnt take a rocket scientist to know what probably was going on. In the ninth year of our marriage, I stopped having sex with the XAH, STOPPED cold. With the onset of so many diseases and aids, I took responsibility for my own health. He didnt like it, I remember he kicked me one nite because I refused. He was livid. The A went on to get progressively worse and more compulsive in his desire for drinking and sex, but he wasn't going to have it with me. My A, was really a textbook of will run rampant.. He eventually took so much Viagra, he had a heart attack, had many women and one woman he got pregnant and she had twins. Who knows how many other children he had. To this day he has nothing to do with the woman or the children or even his 38 year old son that he had with his first wife. Can you see the seriousness of this disease?? If Alcohlism is not arrested, they will exhibit, no compassion, no justice, no love , its as if they are living in the caves of animality.
We are the fortunate ones, I know some days it doesnt feel like it, but we get to make choices and decide for ourself what we want out of this merry go round called life. I don't ever think we were promised paradise, but we decide if we want our lives to be heaven or hell. We have to learn courage and strength and we have to pray for hope. Its a matter of respecting ourselves and knowing our worth. Keep coming back to the program , because it works. Wishing you all the best. Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Wednesday 19th of May 2010 04:01:03 PM
That's why the program works so well! We do not have to go through it alone. My sponsor continues to tell me that I am not unique. And I should also thank you.Your post really spoke to me and allowed me to honestly put something out there that I normally don't talk about. This disease touches every aspect of our lives, yet sex is not something we discuss in the meetings in my area.
I loved that song and related to it too. In fact I liked it so much I downloaded it to my iPod. That one will for sure give me the extra boost I want at the gym :)
Glad you are here.
Yours in recovery, Mandy
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
I am so amazed and feel so filled with love right now. Thank you, all of you!
He will be home soon and I have no clue what to expect. I hate feeling this way.
I WANT to make love to him. I want to be held and touched and know he is there fully present in the moment with me. I am so scared of this surgery and what could happen. I can't share that with him or be comforted by him. I feel so alone with my fear and pain. So thank you for allowing me a place to feel that I am not crazy or alone.
This truly aggressive behavior started since his diagnosis. So part of me feels he is pushing me away so I won't hurt if he dies. Part of it is anger and fear of dying on his part. Part of it is anger at someone MAKING him stop drinking.
In all honesty I feel like part of me is pushing him away as well. When I sat there beside him after doctors after doctor told him he needs to stop drinking and he didn't, I realized deep down he does not want help. He sees nothing wrong with his actions. He does not see the pain and hurt he brings to all that love him.
I am one foot out the door and he does not get it.
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"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
His agressive behavior is most likely comming from being dry and not drinking , he is one sick man and it dosent matter really why he is behaving like this , it is unexceptable ..period . Please find a f2f meeting the sooner the better u need support this board is not enough , it helps to let it out I know but there is so much more to gain from this program . Try meetings for a few months before u make any life altering decissions see how u feel then . If u leave in anger it will be the wrong thing to do , in a few months u will have a different perspective and can make a decission based on fact not emotion .
I will not leave until he is well. That is two months at best, longer if he does not do well. I am going to f2f meetings. I cry and spew. I have only been to three. I fully intend to find one while out in Minnesota. I also plan to come home and go until I find the ones I really feel like I fit into.
I just do not have the time in the next few days to devote to it. Laundry, gardens, his mother coming in tomorrow. Dealing with my daughter and the legal papers so she is cared for while I am gone. doctors, flights, hotels, cars, blah blah blah.
I am taking ALL of my books with me. I won't have to rush here and there. When visiting hours are over they are over. Sad as it sounds I am looking forward to this? The hotel has an indoor pool and spa and a work out room and a full kitchen in my room. Someone makes breakfast every day in the lounge....and I get some alone time and some one on one time with his beautiful 26 year old daughter.
The next two days I should be safe from the scathing remarks. His mommy will be here. His daughter the next day and then we fly out Saturday at the crack of dawn.
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"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
Oh Tom shame, shame, shame on you! He is not been drinking now for a bit over two weeks and not an A, just a drunk.
One is a horrible derogatory name and one he can stop whenever he wants. He just likes it. If he can stop and not get DT's then he is clearly not an A.
all said tongue in cheek. ;) That was the lecture/butt chew I got a few nights ago. Good thing I am not a violent person......lol
-- Edited by FuzzyLogic on Thursday 20th of May 2010 03:03:41 AM
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"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
Thank you all for posting replies, and thank you fuzzy logic for your starting this post - a bit graphic and triggering for me, I will say - but in the end, I am greatful. It has clarified one issue that I have struggled with for quite some time - albeit quietly - VERY quietly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Oh Tom shame, shame, shame on you! He is not been drinking now for a bit over two weeks and not an A, just a drunk. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do not think canadian guy should be ashamed of his comment though...I agree - the behaviors of an alcoholic are SICK - and they make not only themselves SICKER - but make us SICK as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "One is a horrible derogatory name and one he can stop whenever he wants. He just likes it. If he can stop and not get DT's then he is clearly not an A." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Whether he is truly an alcoholic or not - does not matter...what matters is if WE are having a problem with the behaviors coming forth from someone who drinks (whether it be lots or little) - then it is a problem PERIOD! IF we feel things and those things are directly related to or caused by the one drinking...then it is a problem - label 'alcoholic' or not. WE need to take care of OUR needs - just like they need to take care of theirs...if alcohol is their answer to their need - so be it...I want no part in it and will not tolerate any abuse because of my stand in taking care of myself. A drunk is a drunk - call it what you want....a spade is a spade, a loaf of bread is a loaf of bread a duck is a duck.....there can be other names for them, but the truth be told...whatever is in a name, that which the person calling it chooses. If they can stop whenever they want to...then why do so many problems arise when alcohol comes into play? The reality overrides and overwhelms us...but it is still reality no matter what we 'call' it.
Again, thank you for this post and all the replies - it helped me put to rest a few unanswered issues for me...and I am greatful!
-- Edited by lacewing on Saturday 22nd of May 2010 08:02:59 PM
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...He compared his weathered hand to mine and said, ... GROWTH OF THE MIND AND HEART are the best offers you can give.my Grandfather (Keeper of Stories), to me
Lacewing I think you missed the sarcasm. I would hope that Tom saw the wink emoticon and that I meant it in a sarcastic manner.
I know my guy is an Alcoholic. Everyone that loves him knows he is. I was sayingis, this is what he chews me out for.
That calling him an A that means he has a disease and something he cannot control and something he would need help for *gasp* ...a drunk does not need help and has no problem with booze. This is HIS logic, not mine.
I am sorry if my post confused you.
FuzzyLogic wrote:
Oh Tom shame, shame, shame on you! He is not been drinking now for a bit over two weeks and not an A, just a drunk.
One is a horrible derogatory name and one he can stop whenever he wants. He just likes it. If he can stop and not get DT's then he is clearly not an A.
all said tongue in cheek. ;) That was the lecture/butt chew I got a few nights ago. Good thing I am not a violent person......lol
-- Edited by FuzzyLogic on Thursday 20th of May 2010 03:03:41 AM
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"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
IMHO there are major problems with many relationships. When the insanity and selfishness caused by alcohol abuse are added it is far too much to bear. With someones mind still marinated in alcohol they are certainly thinking with the wrong head...
I feel that part of a males recovery from alcohol should include a new respect for women and a realization of what a gift a loving relationship is. Too often men are taught by others actions that women are less than that gift.
If you do not maintain your car or home they break down. The same is true of a relationship. Suggested preventative maintainance should include, a weekly date night, time to discuss things, activities together, joint projects for the beterment of the family and other gifts of self. In short sanity and a lack of selfishness.
Do not judge your self worth on wether or not you wish to be intimate with someone who has alcohol leaching through their pores and a totaly selfish intent.
This is one persons opinion. I am a grateful member of Alanon, a former drinker and a male. I will add your family to my prayer list.
Wow thanks for having the courage to share this fuzzy. I've had one major relationship in my life, we were together 5 years. I've had similiar experiences. We were teenagers and he was 100% more experienced than me, and once I started getting into it, I couldn't *ever* get into it enough to satisfy him. I swear he wanted a porno star. He would complain to me over my lack of "pleasure", and I don't know what he thought he was doing to improve it, but he'd constantly whine about it and turn around and sleep with other women. He never blamed me, but I already felt inadequate so it was just another stick in the pile of hay. I have serious issues becoming physically intimate with someone know, total lack of trust and just being generally uncomfortable in my own body. I've always been overweight and sometimes he'd throw that in my face too. relationships are supposed to be a two way street.. and I know I was a b--- but at the end it was ALL about HIM and how I was lacking in every way as a woman and a wife.. so I left.. but I still carry those feelings around today. This is a difficult subject. I've never been comfortable enough with anyone to really talk about it.. so it helps a lot to read and i relate so much. Hopefully these feelings will pass..
